Healing and Agony

[milan]

A moose attack will cause a period when you are crippled and need to heal before you regain your  strenght.

But a bear attack or wolf attack doesn’t have any real  long term side effects.

All you need is bandage, oldmans beard and a nights rest and you are good to go.

Perhaps they could implement some side effects here like crippled leg/arm that needs a longer time to heal.

 

 

 

 

[UpUpAway95]

I've always felt that a bear attack should kill the player outright regardless of their health and clothing.  I suspect that's not the case because of the story mode and The Hunted challenge.  Rather than have them change the current wolf and bear attacks now though, I'd like to see them add in cougars and give them a particularly lethal or crippling attack... making them truly an apex predator in the game.

[Syraith]

Broken leg, or arm would be a more natural addition for sure. Hopefully not as common as sprains, but would be nice to add splints as a craftable, or walking stick.

A bear attack would for sure leave a LOT more damage than just a simple bandagable wound. Many potential permanent impairments like blindness, nerve damage etc. Wolves are a little more delicate though in the sense that if you have cloth clothing, for sure their bight would go right through and rip you up. Animal leather clothing though would maybe cause broke limbs from the bite/shaking, but should protect from bleeds better.

Lots of potential for realism, but in the end, it’s a game mechanics thing and even if it’s not very realistic, it’s pretty balanced. I’m happy either way.

[odizzido]

Everything in this game is short term. Anything long term will need to wait for mods

[Stinky socks]

Short term? Stinky is in it for the long term, to the end, baby! 

[oplli]

On 4/25/2021 at 3:19 PM, odizzido said:

Everything in this game is short term. Anything long term will need to wait for mods

i wish i had a down vote button. just as explained, moose attacks have a long term healing, making a bow is useful for long term survival exactly like clothes made out of skin. i would say the opposite actually, Most of the things are made for long term survival. 

On 4/24/2021 at 1:37 PM, UpUpAway95 said:

I've always felt that a bear attack should kill the player outright regardless of their health and clothing.  I suspect that's not the case because of the story mode and The Hunted challenge.  Rather than have them change the current wolf and bear attacks now though, I'd like to see them add in cougars and give them a particularly lethal or crippling attack... making them truly an apex predator in the game.

that dosent fix the issue with the bears and wolves though...

[oplli]

I think it would be nice to add more long term wounds. Broken leg could be an interesting one as @Syraith said. bears and moose should be more dangerous (and the bear should be harder to hunt but that is another topic). 

[odizzido]

27 minutes ago, oplli said:

i wish i had a down vote button. just as explained, moose attacks have a long term healing, making a bow is useful for long term survival exactly like clothes made out of skin. i would say the opposite actually, Most of the things are made for long term survival. 

that dosent fix the issue with the bears and wolves though...

What I mean is status effects, like the moose attack, which is the topic of this post. Also long term is a relative statement. While you may think five days for broken ribs is long I do not. I think someone getting stomped by a moose then mauled by a bear and taking just five days to heal completely is nuts.

[Old Hermit]

As i said elsewhere on forum, the insta-healing feature is broken.
All you need is to have the proper treatments on inventory and spend some seconds to be fresh new again (except for condition loss, that is magically restored sleeping).

I think that there should be a difference between applying first aid and actual healing.
Currently, someone could be shredded by wolves today, have the wrists and ankles wounded, several bleedings on head and belly, and yet being fresh new on next day, only using bandages, painkillers, moss and tea. Are u kidding me?

I wonder if would work adding a "recover" section on the Condition Bar (in other color, not red like frostbite), indicating the potential and future amount of condition to be recovered over time on that day, after X hours sleeping.

[UpUpAway95]

On 4/27/2021 at 10:13 PM, oplli said:

i wish i had a down vote button. just as explained, moose attacks have a long term healing, making a bow is useful for long term survival exactly like clothes made out of skin. i would say the opposite actually, Most of the things are made for long term survival. 

that dosent fix the issue with the bears and wolves though...

It's a compromise solution.  I'd still prefer it (i.e. adding an insta-kill predator like the cougar) to grinding the game down to a slow crawl by giving the player long-term injuries.   Weeks stuck on one level of Ash Canyon due to a broken leg just doesn't sound like a fun game to play or watch on Twitch.  Realism in healing isn't an issue for me... none of that is reality because we're playing a game.  The game needs to have adequate pacing to keep it interesting.

Edited April 29, 2021 by UpUpAway95

[Stinky socks]

Yeah, we don't have a lot of animations to make it interesting. What would it be like to have a broken leg in game for 20 days? Super long loading circle bar?😊

[odizzido]

3 hours ago, UpUpAway95 said:

It's a compromise solution.  I'd still prefer it (i.e. adding an insta-kill predator like the cougar) to grinding the game down to a slow crawl by giving the player long-term injuries.   Weeks stuck on one level of Ash Canyon due to a broken leg just doesn't sound like a fun game to play or watch on Twitch.  Realism in healing isn't an issue for me... none of that is reality because we're playing a game.  The game needs to have adequate pacing to keep it interesting.

This is completely true. All you have to do is look at how popular call of duty or fortnite are compared to something like factorio or spacechem to know that having king charles cavaliers jumping you every 30 seconds and healing up like the T1000 is the best choice.

It's also why having good mod support is my number one wish for this game beyond the story mode. They're never going to add long term things to this game.

[Old Hermit]

7 hours ago, UpUpAway95 said:

It's a compromise solution.  I'd still prefer it (i.e. adding an insta-kill predator like the cougar) to grinding the game down to a slow crawl by giving the player long-term injuries.   Weeks stuck on one level of Ash Canyon due to a broken leg just doesn't sound like a fun game to play or watch on Twitch.  Realism in healing isn't an issue for me... none of that is reality because we're playing a game.  The game needs to have adequate pacing to keep it interesting.

I think that realism is not the issue, but simple logic. Ok, it's a game, but this argument can't sustain a broken mechanic (yes, i think the insta-heal a broken mechanic, in comparison to other better elaborated mechanics, aligned to the game's proposal). Because of that, a lot of immersion is lost.

Yes, a crippling injury like that (can't use rope climbing) would break a lot of fun, but hey, it already exists (not leg, but ribs).
Just plan your trips carefully. Isn't that what they say?

[UpUpAway95]

29 minutes ago, Old Hermit said:

I think that realism is not the issue, but simple logic. Ok, it's a game, but this argument can't sustain a broken mechanic (yes, i think the insta-heal a broken mechanic, in comparison to other better elaborated mechanics, aligned to the game's proposal). Because of that, a lot of immersion is lost.

Yes, a crippling injury like that (can't use rope climbing) would break a lot of fun, but hey, it already exists (not leg, but ribs).
Just plan your trips carefully. Isn't that what they say?

You call it broken, that's fine.  I disagree.  I think it prevents the game from getting needlessly bogged down (which also, BTW, breaks immersion by becoming overly tedious and causing people to lose interest).  For the most part, moose spawns are placed where you can't get stranded on a small plateau due to broken ribs.  In Ash Canyon, it's the bear that spawns up top, not a moose.  Thankfully, IMO... although watching people try to wobble across those bridges with a broken leg without falling off might be entertaining for a few seconds.

[Stinky socks]

I do not like logic, @Old Hermit. This is a game. With amount of time I spend inside wolf mouth, I would never walk right!

[oplli]

3 hours ago, UpUpAway95 said:

You call it broken, that's fine.  I disagree.  I think it prevents the game from getting needlessly bogged down (which also, BTW, breaks immersion by becoming overly tedious and causing people to lose interest).  For the most part, moose spawns are placed where you can't get stranded on a small plateau due to broken ribs.  In Ash Canyon, it's the bear that spawns up top, not a moose.  Thankfully, IMO... although watching people try to wobble across those bridges with a broken leg without falling off might be entertaining for a few seconds.

I dont think that having a broken leg "breaks" the fun, its quite the opposite i think. First lets say in situation one, i get attacked by a wolf I loose 50% of my health I have a couple of lacerations and my two ankles anre sprained. I will apply a couple of bandages, swallow some painkillers and apply a anti infection bandage. all of that happens in a couple of seconds and are all done inside a menu. Then i will come back to a safe cave or house, sleep a couple hours to recover then i will fix my clothes.

Then lets say that a more complex wound system exists : I will get attacked by a wolf bla bla bla, Then i have to apply a bandage but my wound isnt healed, it is only a temporary solution i still have to get to my safe place (its not the time to apply antiseptic its -45 outside) Then i will have to sew my leg in order to then start recover (note that in situation 1 i still need to take the time to recover, repair clothes etc the only difference is that i cannot run a marathon or just... run until it is done !) 

So, would a more complex healing system would break the game or simply be annoying to watch on stream or play ? My answer would be an obvious NO beacause it only adds a layer of realism and more actions to achieve in the game wich is something i would love ! 

Maybe when it is time to stitch your two ripped leg's meat together you could have final stitch quality witch at 100% would have no chance to reopen (for example)  

and when you run the first time after a wound you would have a broken stich chance and the more you run the more little bar climbs up to 100% like a frostbite risk.

to conclude, we already have to stay and not do much when we get wounded so adding a better healing system wouldn't change much on that point !

 

Edited April 30, 2021 by oplli

[Old Hermit]

2 hours ago, UpUpAway95 said:

You call it broken, that's fine.  I disagree.  I think it prevents the game from getting needlessly bogged down (which also, BTW, breaks immersion by becoming overly tedious and causing people to lose interest).  For the most part, moose spawns are placed where you can't get stranded on a small plateau due to broken ribs.  In Ash Canyon, it's the bear that spawns up top, not a moose.  Thankfully, IMO... although watching people try to wobble across those bridges with a broken leg without falling off might be entertaining for a few seconds.

Maybe i've used wrong words, sorry

When i say broken, i mean the insta-heal mechanics seems doesn't fit to the "not sci-fi, not magic" atmosphere of TLD (just to not saying the "realist" word), and it makes the game a lot easier. I think it would fit better in titles more full of action, like shooters as @odizzido mentioned above.

About the other crippling wounds (beside broken ribs), i'm sure if it would be implemented, it would be a very well planned feature, and not just dropped ingame. Maybe it should be a very rare to happen, in given circumstances. 

 

@Stinky socksok, no need logic. So let's continue with the magic healing system ^^

(using google translator)

[Stinky socks]

3 minutes ago, oplli said:

beacause it only adds a layer of realism

No😥...it's all menus and loading wheels! You don't have a leg gushing with blood animation and all sorts of profanities or blacking out after you poke yourself with a needle. It would be just a longer more tedious clicking and waiting for the loading screen to finish.

[UpUpAway95]

37 minutes ago, Old Hermit said:

Maybe i've used wrong words, sorry

When i say broken, i mean the insta-heal mechanics seems doesn't fit to the "not sci-fi, not magic" atmosphere of TLD (just to not saying the "realist" word), and it makes the game a lot easier. I think it would fit better in titles more full of action, like shooters as @odizzido mentioned above.

About the other crippling wounds (beside broken ribs), i'm sure if it would be implemented, it would be a very well planned feature, and not just dropped ingame. Maybe it should be a very rare to happen, in given circumstances. 

 

@Stinky socksok, no need logic. So let's continue with the magic healing system ^^

(using google translator)

It's not magic insta-heal... It's insta-stabilize (for a sprain) and a pain killer to alleviate pain because that's what pain killers do.  If they wanted to increase our usage of cloth, they could have us continue to bandage for a few more days and take more painkillers, but what would be the point, really?  A perceived lack of cloth in the world is already a common complaint among players; and without a third-person view, how does one perceive wearing the bandages we put on for multiple days.

Broken ribs do take longer to heal, but is there any sort of animation for it?  No.

The current state of bears and wolves can be explained.  Bears lose interest in us before they kill us outright because we aren't really their prey... then are omnivores and survive largely on berries and scavenged carrion.  Wolves give us little nips that can bleed out if not bandaged.  Sorry, they aren't the lethal killers you want them to be in this game, but I believe the healing for the injuries given is reasonably realistic for a game.  Food poisoning takes a dose of medicine and 10 hours of sleep to heal, which is reasonable for an upset tummy.  Parasites take a long time to heal and many doses of medicine.  I don't think it's "magical."

Furthermore, the game has never been 100% "realistic" nor will it ever be as long a "aurora" animals exist and power magically comes on whenever there is an aurora in the sky.

Edited April 30, 2021 by UpUpAway95

[UpUpAway95]

52 minutes ago, oplli said:

I dont think that having a broken leg "breaks" the fun, its quite the opposite i think. First lets say in situation one, i get attacked by a wolf I loose 50% of my health I have a couple of lacerations and my two ankles anre sprained. I will apply a couple of bandages, swallow some painkillers and apply a anti infection bandage. all of that happens in a couple of seconds and are all done inside a menu. Then i will come back to a safe cave or house, sleep a couple hours to recover then i will fix my clothes.

Then lets say that a more complex wound system exists : I will get attacked by a wolf bla bla bla, Then i have to apply a bandage but my wound isnt healed, it is only a temporary solution i still have to get to my safe place (its not the time to apply antiseptic its -45 outside) Then i will have to sew my leg in order to then start recover (note that in situation 1 i still need to take the time to recover, repair clothes etc the only difference is that i cannot run a marathon or just... run until it is done !) 

So, would a more complex healing system would break the game or simply be annoying to watch on stream or play ? My answer would be an obvious NO beacause it only adds a layer of realism and more actions to achieve in the game wich is something i would love ! 

Maybe when it is time to stitch your two ripped leg's meat together you could have final stitch quality witch at 100% would have no chance to reopen (for example)  

and when you run the first time after a wound you would have a broken stich chance and the more you run the more little bar climbs up to 100% like a frostbite risk.

to conclude, we already have to stay and not do much when we get wounded so adding a better healing system wouldn't change much on that point !

 

As was stated... Sewing your leg = pass time screen same as for sewing your coat.  So, you're basically saving 1 more of those screens each time a wolf attacks you is more fun?  I disagree.  What's the penalty if you forget to sew your leg, say, infection?  Equals pop-up to take an antibiotic or watch your health bar go down until you do... same as food poisoning.  More fun?  I disagree.

On another thread, we were discussing your disapproval of a pop-up notice forbidding putting fire reflectors in multiple locations.  What's the difference here?

Edited April 30, 2021 by UpUpAway95

[oplli]

1 minute ago, UpUpAway95 said:

As was stated... Sewing your leg = pass time screen same as for sewing your coat.  So, you're basically saving 1 more of those screens each time a wolf attacks you is more fun?  I disagree.

many more things could be added for  the example of a broken leg: you can craft a wood prosthese to hold your leg while it is healing (it dosent have to be 20 or 10 days) without it you walk slower and you cannot run, with it you can walk normally and run but cannot have more kg than what your pack let you have. so this is a real change to the gameplay.

[Stinky socks]

I get naked to run faster and longer. Taking that away from me would be brutal. It's like pilot without wings, same for me; stinky without sprinting is death by depression.

In my recent days, most fun I had was hunting deer and wolves.

[oplli]

2 minutes ago, Stinky socks said:

I get naked to run faster and longer.

I hope you you stay hidden from people they might call the police

[UpUpAway95]

30 minutes ago, oplli said:

many more things could be added for  the example of a broken leg: you can craft a wood prosthese to hold your leg while it is healing (it dosent have to be 20 or 10 days) without it you walk slower and you cannot run, with it you can walk normally and run but cannot have more kg than what your pack let you have. so this is a real change to the gameplay.

What does the game do when you try to exceed your pack weight?  A pop-up forbidding you to do so?... Sounds familiar (re fire reflector).  Again, what's different?

Perhaps, Will/Astrid just states"can't move" 20 kg sooner?

I'm pretty sure I'd rather have a cougar added that jumps me from the drak and kills me instantly... and finding a strategy to avoid it at all costs rather than being able to just shoot it in the face as it rushes me head on.

If they add third-person animations, then things get more interesting...  but that's a tall order for revamping the entire game.

Edited April 30, 2021 by UpUpAway95

[Stinky socks]

47 minutes ago, UpUpAway95 said:

If they add third-person animations, then things get more interesting...  but that's a tall order for revamping the entire game

Well, even if it were first person with feet and body added, it would become a lot more immersive. Imagine Astrid looks at her hand and only four fingers are present, instead of the usual five. Or perhaps a hole in the bloody leg as she gets blurry vision and passes out for a few minutes, then upon wakeup starts frantically mumbling to herself(aka player) what to do as she's a doctor. Will should just die I guess. He's a pilot who didnt even bring much survival gear and is the reason their both in trouble.

@oplli, in the game. I run naked in the game. Longer sprint bar (circle, but a bar. Circle bar)