Warmth bonus from fires & stoves

[peteloud]

I am puzzled by the warmth bonus from fires and stoves.

Several times I have been cooking on a fire or stove, in very cold conditions but have not had the warmth bonus that I expected.  It might be that my expectations are invalid or it might be that there has been a bug.

In a recent Stalker game I was in the fishing hut, with a closed door, near the fishermen's cabins in Coastal Highway when it was very cold, air temp. -36ºC. 

My clothing probably gave me a 26ºC warmth bonus.  I had the stove burning away, but it seemed to be giving me no warmth.  I only survived by having hot drinks.

Can anyone explain?

I had a similar experience in the fishing hut in PV a few weeks ago, but when I last stayed in the hut, about a week ago, I seemed to get a warmth bonus, but I don't have a record of the temperatures so I can't give exact details.  I'm sure that I have had similar experiences in rock shelters, (not  caves).

It brings to mind the difference between being inside a cave, near the entrance and being at the back of a cave where one gets the warmth bonus from a fire whereas near the cave entrance is much colder.

I am very ready to accept that it might be that I just don't understand how the heat bonus from a fire/stove is given, or it might be a bug.

 

[ajb1978]

In Pilgrim and Voyageur, the heat bonus from a flame immediately overcomes the ambient temperature.  So if it's -30C and you light a fire with a single stick, it overrides that -30C and the temperature next to the fire is instantly 1C.

On Stalker and Interloper, and on custom games where you opt out of that ability, you need to build that fire up to counteract the ambient temperature. Since you're on a stalker game, if the ambient temperature is 30C, you need a fire producing at least 30C before you can warm up, assuming you are naked.  If your clothing gives you +20C warmth, then the fire would only need to be 10C.  

What you describe from the caves is the indoor and outdoor sections.  The back of a cave is considered indoors, and is always naturally warmer than the front.  So you don't need as hot a fire to receive the benefit.

[peteloud]

I am playing a straight Stalker game.

Your explanation is very good, thanks.  

I thought that it was much simpler than that.  I guess feeding the stove with several sticks will boost the temperature more than a single cedar log.  I shall hang around the fishermen's cabins and try and repeat the incident when there is a blizzard.

[ajb1978]

2 minutes ago, peteloud said:

I guess feeding the stove with several sticks will boost the temperature more than a single cedar log.

Oh definitely.  Each stick adds 1C to the temperature, so if you can get in the habit of just picking up sticks as you see them, you will very quickly accumulate enough to have a viable fire.  80 sticks is enough for a 12 hour fire, plus a few extra.  You don't actually need the full 80 for the 12 hour fire, it's just an easy number to remember.

[peteloud]

I have just raced across from killing a bear near the trailer above Quonset Garage to the fishermen's cabins, collecting sticks on the way.  The weather has turned nasty, but not very cold yet. So I might get the chance to try out keeping warm by feeding sticks into the stove.

 

. . .

This is what it's like now.  That's cold enough to test what you said.

. . . . . .

Yes, What you said is what is happening.

Before I started cooking the air temperature inside the fishing hut was -30.  By the time I had about a dozen sticks on the fire the fire temp. was 11º and the air temperature was -21º and I felt like 4º. 

I guess that the temperatures are calculated differently at different levels is what had me puzzled.  So it was not a bug.

So now I know that I should use lots of sticks in such a situation, thanks.

Actually I just need to start the fire with several sticks, once it gets up to temperature I can use any fuel and it will hold its temperature.

 

Edited May 28, 2019 by peteloud

[UpUpAway95]

On 5/28/2019 at 7:34 AM, peteloud said:

I have just raced across from killing a bear near the trailer above Quonset Garage to the fishermen's cabins, collecting sticks on the way.  The weather has turned nasty, but not very cold yet. So I might get the chance to try out keeping warm by feeding sticks into the stove.

 

. . .

This is what it's like now.  That's cold enough to test what you said.

. . . . . .

Yes, What you said is what is happening.

Before I started cooking the air temperature inside the fishing hut was -30.  By the time I had about a dozen sticks on the fire the fire temp. was 11º and the air temperature was -21º and I felt like 4º. 

I guess that the temperatures are calculated differently at different levels is what had me puzzled.  So it was not a bug.

So now I know that I should use lots of sticks in such a situation, thanks.

Actually I just need to start the fire with several sticks, once it gets up to temperature I can use any fuel and it will hold its temperature.

 

Each fuel sources has a max temperature.  I can't remember what it is for just sticks, but reclaimed wood is 80C.  Adding more reclaimed wood to a fire that is 80C or over won't raise the temperature of it any higher.  It will just increase the duration of the fire.  That's why you need coal to raise a forge temperature to 150C or higher.  Adding coal to a stick fire will always raise it's temperature since it doesn't account for it being inside or outside a contained area (like a forge).  That's apparently how I got a feels like temperature in an open cave front (the one on Marsh Ridge) to 65C overnight.  If it was reality, I would have died from heat prostration in my sleep.

[Jolan]

On 5/28/2019 at 9:34 AM, peteloud said:

So now I know that I should use lots of sticks in such a situation

Coal can save your life out in a blizzard.  Since it adds 20 degrees C.  Enough sticks to get 26 minutes and then you can drop a lump of coal in the fire.  If its really cold maybe another stick or 3.  Coal is like gold.

[peteloud]

Jolan,

" Coal can save your life out in a blizzard.  Since it adds 20 degrees C. . . . "

Now that I realise that the temperature of the fire determines how warm I 'feel' I have much more control of these very cold situations.  I am now looking forward to a few cold situations to test these combination of fuel to maximise the fire temperature, hence my temperature.

[Stone]

"Looking forward to a few cold situations.." ! You shouldn't have to wait long... On Loper I look forward to a few not cold situations. Coal is gold as @Jolan says. It's also the most weight efficient fuel, I believe. 

 

[Guest jeffpeng]

In my opinion the fire/warmth mechanic is the single greatest change between Voyageur and Stalker. Everything else sorta comes naturally (more wolves, stronger wolves, did I mention wolves?) but this really punishes your habits. Back then I had pretty much the same situation where suddenly I was asking myself if the game was bugged - and then it dawned on me.

[peteloud]

39 minutes ago, jeffpeng said:

In my opinion the fire/warmth mechanic is the single greatest change between Voyageur and Stalker.  . . . .

I agree. 

This evening I returned to a Voyager, 1,000 day save, and went out to a fishing hut.  Outside a very nasty blizzard was raging , yet it was so warm and cosy in the fishing hut.  The same conditions in Stalker would have been extremely challenging.  As it was, I followed the advice I have been given here, and took with me lots of sticks and some coal.  They were not necessary, it was not a difficult situation.  It continued to be a warm cosy experience.  Now I am prepared for such a nasty blizzard in Stalker.

 

I suppose this is what keeps me interested in the game.  It is fascinating to find out how cope with these very varied problems.

[Guest jeffpeng]

I must admit because of this I cannot play Voyageur anymore. Everytime I start up a nice and relaxing game in Voyageur I get to the point where I know I should have to put a good fire on, but I just don't have to. Then I kinda think "meh, lame" and continue "relaxing" in Stalker 😉

[shade_grey]

On 5/29/2019 at 10:59 PM, UpUpAway95 said:

Each fuel sources has a max temperature.  I can't remember what it is for just sticks, but reclaimed wood is 80C.  Adding more reclaimed wood to a fire that is 80C or over won't raise the temperature of it any higher.  It will just increase the duration of the fire.  That's why you need coal to raise a forge temperature to 150C or higher.

That's not true. Fires hotter than 80C can only be made in a forge with coal as fuel. Any other fire location or any other fuel and the fire cannot go higher than 80C.

Feed any fire that isn't in a forge with coal and the temperature stops at 80C. Feed a forge fire with any other fuel than coal and the temperature stops at 80C.

[UpUpAway95]

On 6/4/2019 at 6:49 AM, shade_grey said:

That's not true. Fires hotter than 80C can only be made in a forge with coal as fuel. Any other fire location or any other fuel and the fire cannot go higher than 80C.

Feed any fire that isn't in a forge with coal and the temperature stops at 80C. Feed a forge fire with any other fuel than coal and the temperature stops at 80C.

Well then, 80C is still too hot since it's more than hot enough to get the temperature in an open cave to "feels like +65C.  My clothing bonus was +21C.  I read this feels like temperature after the fire had burned for 6 hours and was down to "embers" upon my awaking.  This is despite the fact that temperatures in an open cave like that never reach anywhere near the high an air temperature, let alone have that temperature hanging on after the fire dies down to embers.  You can see from the numbers that the fire itself was below 80C (65-21=44C with the difficulty setting such that fires override freezing, so base was 0C)  The moment the embers burned out, the temperature fell to -23C inside the cave.

Edited June 5, 2019 by UpUpAway95

[ManicManiac]

My recommendation is: if you want to get warm, carry at least 4 sticks and some coal (coal being the most efficient fuel both in terms of warmth per kilogram and burn-time per kilogram).  Once you see your "feels like" rise above 0*c... you are good to go. 

 

Side bars:
- I say "at least 4 sticks" because each stick equals 7.5 minutes of burn time (or seven minutes and thirty seconds - because decimals can confuse some people), and you need to wait 30 minutes before you can add coal to the fire (for...reasons). 

- Also yes, campfires and other fireboxes will have a temp camp of 80*c... so after we get the fire to that temperature we can easily keep the fire going with any other fuel (so we don't need to waste coal once it reaches 80*c).  Even rescuing the fire when it's down to embers will keep the temp the same as the full burn rate did.  The temp won't degrade until the fire is actually extinguished, after which it does rather quickly re-equalize with the "natural" ambient temperature for that area.

- Also yes, forges will allow for higher temperatures... however the temp camp is still 80*c with "regular fuel."  So far as I know, we can only break that cap in the forge with coal.