Grindstone, Waxes and oils, expanded equipment maintenance

[EternityTide]

Given that whetstones have a finite lifespan, and thus can be considered little more than an extra boost to the amount of use you can make of a tool, I suggest an infinite-use tool to sharpen hatchets, axes (which are on their way, according to the roadmap) and hunting knives, this tool being a Grindstone.

Now in order to prevent abuse, the grindstone would have to be placed somewhere remote, somewhere where it cannot easily be used for a free lunch. Three locations spring to mind:

• The Mountaineer's Hut, in Timberwolf Mountain
• The Riken, in Desolation point
• The Misanthrope's Homestead. in Coastal Highway

ONE of these locations would be the potential location to find a grindstone, which would allow players to infinitely resharpen their tools, however the player requires a minimum sharpening skill of 65 to operate the grindstone, so there is another bar to overcome before you make a mad dash to these remote places with 20 kilos of ironmongery weighing you down.

Other pieces of equipment suffer deficiencies as well. Axes and knives will rust with use, making it harder to keep a decent edge. Protection from this can be found in waxing the blade, to prevent corrosion. Rusting equipment will not only degrade faster, but also make it more difficult to perform certain tasks (gutting and skinning with a rusty knife is no mean feat).
Waxing leather boots will add a 10 day condition buff that slows their degradation and fractionally (<0.5%) reduces fatigue per kilo carried. 
Waxes can be found as household items, ranging from beeswax to carnauba wax (used to buff cars in workshops), and can also be used to craft light sources.
Oils are also useful, as a well oiled rifle's mechanism is less prone to jamming, and can be used in tandem with regular cleaning. All leather products can also be oiled, as well as bows (prevents loss of spring and prevents cracking due to drying out), improving their overall condition. Oiled line (if it is sourced from gut) increases its flexibility, making it less prone to snap. 
Oils can also be used to craft torches and fuel lanterns.
Well maintained equipment should produces bonuses for their users, including, but not limited to, greater yields of leather, gut and meat, with better conditions of all of those, as well as faster harvesting times. Sharp, well maintained hatchets should harvest wood faster. Oiled tin openers should degrade less quickly and open tins more quickly (try opening a tin with a rusty tin opener and then a brand new, out of the factory tin opener, and you'll realise what I mean).
Additionally, I would like to introduce maintenance to a piece of equipment that previously didn't require any - lanterns.
Use will eventually lead to a build up of residue and incomplete burning of fuel, reducing its efficiency and brightness. regular cleaning (requiring cloth and water - at 0.1L of water per cleaning) will result in you lantern producing a consistent and bright light, with a low fuel consumption. Dirty, poorly maintained lanterns will sputter and spontaneously extinguish, as well as use more kerosene for less light. The glass will darken over time, and light given out will reduce as the lantern deteriorates. At 0% condition, the lantern will not ignite, regardless of how much fuel it contains, however cleaning can bring its condition back up and allow its use to continue.

[Ape88]

Definitely should be some ways. I read in an article that one of the best sources of beeswax is from the hardware store from the toilet rings required for installing a toilet.

I suppose that if someone were really desperate, they could pull one that is already installed in a house and use that for waterproofing clothes or anything they needed to water proof. Or for other uses too.

[Wastelander]

Very solid suggestions overall, nice one. I'm with ya here.

[Rusty_Old_F250]

I'm onboard! I work in/around a lot of heavy industry, and maintenance is HUGE deal. Oil and grease are the best friend of *almost* any metal object.

Sam

[Dirmagnos]

Yes to grindstones, no to their location. Why there would be one in any of those spots(Mountaneers Hut is simply 2 small to have something like that there, its a hunting cabin; Riken, if he would have one, would have electrical grindstone, making it useless; Misanthropes would make sense, but if its a loners cabin ,then why it has no fireplace for self-sustainable living, so meh) ? Id prefer PW and/or CH, in an outdoors location, so that there would be some hazard in using those. Not in direct vicinity of any campable locations. Alternatively either place it into prepper cache or in basement in skeeters ridge in PW.

Waxes and oils - sure. As long as we get animal fat to come along them.

+2 for lantern maintenance, long overdue.

[Wastelander]

16 minutes ago, Dirmagnos said:

Yes to grindstones, no to their location. Why there would be one in any of those spots(Mountaneers Hut is simply 2 small to have something like that there, its a hunting cabin; Riken, if he would have one, would have electrical grindstone, making it useless; Misanthropes would make sense, but if its a loners cabin ,then why it has no fireplace for self-sustainable living, so meh) ? Id prefer PW and/or CH, in an outdoors location, so that there would be some hazard in using those. Not in direct vicinity of any campable locations. Alternatively either place it into prepper cache or in basement in skeeters ridge in PW.

Waxes and oils - sure. As long as we get animal fat to come along them.

+2 for lantern maintenance, long overdue.

That's a good point about the locations. PV would be an especially strong contender due to the farmhouse, although the fishing camp in CH might have one. 

[danicusrex]

15 minutes ago, Wastelander said:

That's a good point about the locations. PV would be an especially strong contender due to the farmhouse, although the fishing camp in CH might have one. 

Farmhouse outbuildings, maybe? A grindstone in the barn, up in the loft workshop area?

[elloco999]

I think maintenance of our equipment should indeed be expanded upon. @EternityTide makes some good suggestions here on how this could be accomplished. Although instead of waxing my blades I would oil them. I might use wax on blades I would not expect to use for some time, but for blades I'm using regularly would use oil.

14 hours ago, Dirmagnos said:

Yes to grindstones, no to their location. Why there would be one in any of those spots(Mountaneers Hut is simply 2 small to have something like that there, its a hunting cabin; Riken, if he would have one, would have electrical grindstone, making it useless; Misanthropes would make sense, but if its a loners cabin ,then why it has no fireplace for self-sustainable living, so meh) ? Id prefer PW and/or CH, in an outdoors location, so that there would be some hazard in using those. Not in direct vicinity of any campable locations. Alternatively either place it into prepper cache or in basement in skeeters ridge in PW.

Waxes and oils - sure. As long as we get animal fat to come along them.

+2 for lantern maintenance, long overdue.

I agree with the locations, but placing a grindstone in an area that has no campable locations nearby makes no sense to me (it does gameplay wise). Why would someone have placed a grindstone in such a location? The only way to explain that would be to put it next to a burned down house or something like that.

[Boston123]

Do ..... do you people actually use grindstones on your axes and knives?

..... Jesus.

I use a file, or a coarse stone, to remove knicks from my axe-edge, I don't take it to a grindwheel. That seems like a great way to ruin the temper of the edge if I am not careful.

Usually, grindstones are used to put the initial edge on a tool, then after the edge is tempered, it is brought to final sharpness using hand/bench stones.

Same thing with knives, except I don't even use a file on mine. Coarse stone, then fine, then a strop. Anything else is too "rough".

Heat is what kills a temper in steel. Using a grindwheel is a great way to build up a lot of heat, fast. Sure, it will take longer using a bench/hand-stone, but the steel won't get hot that way.

Just my two cents.

[EternityTide]

10 minutes ago, Boston123 said:

Do ..... do you people actually use grindstones on your axes and knives?

..... Jesus.

I use a file, or a coarse stone, to remove knicks from my axe-edge, I don't take it to a grindwheel. That seems like a great way to ruin the temper of the edge if I am not careful.

Usually, grindstones are used to put the initial edge on a tool, then after the edge is tempered, it is brought to final sharpness using hand/bench stones.

Same thing with knives, except I don't even use a file on mine. Coarse stone, then fine, then a strop. Anything else is too "rough".

Heat is what kills a temper in steel. Using a grindwheel is a great way to build up a lot of heat, fast. Sure, it will take longer using a bench/hand-stone, but the steel won't get hot that way.

Just my two cents.

It makes about as much sense as a whetstone degrading beyond use after 20 uses. I do agree that IRL I wouldn't use a grindstone, instead opting for a oilstone, whetstone or leather strop, however we need something immovable and permanent to enable the mechanic to be balanced.
As for all the complaints about "why would it be in X location if you can't camp there", I thought it was clear that the reason for this was because otherwise it made the game too easy. Once your tools become effectively endless use, you have no reason to move on in the game, you can just sit their and live indefinitely off the land. In a remote location, you at least have to make the effort of walking there and back.
Apologies if I sound snappy, I just got off a rather stressful flight.

[Dirmagnos]

4 hours ago, elloco999 said:

I agree with the locations, but placing a grindstone in an area that has no campable locations nearby makes no sense to me (it does gameplay wise). Why would someone have placed a grindstone in such a location? The only way to explain that would be to put it next to a burned down house or something like that.

Thats why i suggested it to be placed in basement in Skeeters Ridge. There are 2 inaccessible houses there and its out of the way on the hill, and it also halfway between farm house and entrance to TWM. Grindstone would be a great addition, quite powerful one at that, but it should be also penalized in some way as well, so that it would be both logical and challenging to a degree. Similar to failed idea with forge - specific location that houses a powerful tool, but has nothing else of value in direct vicinity, making setting base there a bad choice. Also thought about burned down houses as location, but there are so many of them and none of them are of particular interest from standpoint of placing such object. Thought about barn as well, imo too easy.

[cekivi]

8 hours ago, Dirmagnos said:

Thats why i suggested it to be placed in basement in Skeeters Ridge.

Didn't even think of Skeeter's Ridge. For my playthroughs, the houses are usually all burned down making it a very good location for this type of equipment. With some cosmetic changes (one of the "houses" becomes a garage woodshop) and you have the grindstone in the basement. Houses are burned down so you have a narrative justification for not being a good base camp (i.e. no fireplace and workbench) but you can still shelter inside. The plethora of wolves makes it challenging/risky to approach the site. You could survive nearby (there is the cave and hunting blind) but it is not the best location.

If this was implemented I would suggest a road sign as well near where most people come out of Cinder Hills Coal Mine saying something along the lines of "Bob's Woodshop - Custom Handicrafts. Tool Sharpening Offered" to give players some indication that this place exists.

[elloco999]

19 hours ago, Boston123 said:

Do ..... do you people actually use grindstones on your axes and knives?

..... Jesus.

I use a file, or a coarse stone, to remove knicks from my axe-edge, I don't take it to a grindwheel. That seems like a great way to ruin the temper of the edge if I am not careful.

No, I don't... But then we're not talking real life here. Like @EternityTide said, my RL whetstones don't degrade after 20 uses either.

Also, I think we're talking about something like these:

Not this:

A manual grindstone doesn't heat up the metal anywhere near as fast, especially if you use one like the second in the top image that has a basin filled with water that will help cool it (even if that is not it's intended function).

19 hours ago, EternityTide said:

As for all the complaints about "why would it be in X location if you can't camp there", I thought it was clear that the reason for this was because otherwise it made the game too easy.

It was perfectly clear to me that placing the grindstone at a remote location that doesn't invite one to camp there forever is to balance it's functionality. And a good one at that. But that doesn't mean there should be no plausible explanation as to why there would be a grindstone at that location. One could be placed on a new peak in TWM, only reachable after climbing 3 ropes and not enough room at the top to even put down your bedroll. That would make one heck of a remote location that offers little shelter. But it would also be quite unrealistic to find a grindstone there.

So all I'm saying is that I would like a location that is both remote and not a good place to camp and also makes sense as a place where one might find a grindstone. I think Skeeters Ridge as @Dirmagnos suggested would make a good location. And turning one of the houses into a woodshop as @cekivi suggests would make it even better!

19 hours ago, EternityTide said:

Once your tools become effectively endless use, you have no reason to move on in the game, you can just sit their and live indefinitely off the land. In a remote location, you at least have to make the effort of walking there and back.
Apologies if I sound snappy, I just got off a rather stressful flight.

Hinterland has stated before that they have no problem with people who want to stay in one place. If people want to play that way, let them.

That said, I would welcome reasons to travel more myself.

17 hours ago, Dirmagnos said:

Thats why i suggested it to be placed in basement in Skeeters Ridge. There are 2 inaccessible houses there and its out of the way on the hill, and it also halfway between farm house and entrance to TWM. Grindstone would be a great addition, quite powerful one at that, but it should be also penalized in some way as well, so that it would be both logical and challenging to a degree. Similar to failed idea with forge - specific location that houses a powerful tool, but has nothing else of value in direct vicinity, making setting base there a bad choice. Also thought about burned down houses as location, but there are so many of them and none of them are of particular interest from standpoint of placing such object. Thought about barn as well, imo too easy.

Excellent location!

9 hours ago, cekivi said:

Didn't even think of Skeeter's Ridge. For my playthroughs, the houses are usually all burned down making it a very good location for this type of equipment. With some cosmetic changes (one of the "houses" becomes a garage woodshop) and you have the grindstone in the basement. Houses are burned down so you have a narrative justification for not being a good base camp (i.e. no fireplace and workbench) but you can still shelter inside. The plethora of wolves makes it challenging/risky to approach the site. You could survive nearby (there is the cave and hunting blind) but it is not the best location.

If this was implemented I would suggest a road sign as well near where most people come out of Cinder Hills Coal Mine saying something along the lines of "Bob's Woodshop - Custom Handicrafts. Tool Sharpening Offered" to give players some indication that this place exists.

Great idea of that woodshop! Absolutely love this.