Sprains in TWM

[TROY]

I'm a little ticked right now. I finally have proof that the sprain mechanic is being overly aggressive and do a search to find out if its already been reported, and the thread has been closed by support with a final note that the sprain mechanic is working as intended. I'm sorry, but if you intend for players to get sprained ankles and wrists while walking on flat level ground while fully rested and not over loaded, PLEASE do not add any further content into the game. Its done. I don't need the game randomly deciding that i am currently in possession of to many painkillers. bullshit.  I have three screenshots I just took of where i was walking, and how much i was carrying, and the fact that I was fully rested, but if you arent interested in feedback, then its not worth my time, but i'm damn sure gonna have my say.  I love this game, but when y'all go doin' stupid crap like adding random injuries just to make a particular region more difficult, gimmee a break.

[miah999]

I have a couple questions so I can understand why you're getting lots of sprains, and I've only had 2 in 70 game days.

1: What difficulty are you playing on?

2: Is it only in TWM or do other regions have more or less sprains?

I really hope they fix this soon.

[TROY]

Just now, miah999 said:

I have a couple questions so I can understand why you're getting lots of sprains, and I've only had 2 in 70 game days.

1: What difficulty are you playing on?

2: Is it only in TWM or do other regions have more or less sprains?

I really hope they fix this soon.

Well, it appears as though they are happy with it, proud of themselves for it even. It only happens in TWM. It doesnt seem to make a difference what the difficulty setting is. I was just now playing on Pilgrim, and got a ankle AND wrist sprain, while walking on PERFECTLY FLAT LEVEL GROUND. Now, I understand, the intention is for TWM to be  an extreme challenge, and I dont mind if they increase the chance or risk of sprains while walking across or down steep slopes to account for the fact that in such a place, the snow would likely be deeper, or a higher chance of ice built up on the ground under the snow. But Ive been getting sprains on every little tiny little hill in the whole region. I have kept writing it off to being tired, or over loaded, but every time, I'd look behind me at the ground, and think, "boy, thats quite a stretch to think I'd fall down there, even tired." But it finally happened, on level ground, without being overloaded, and completely rested. Its crap is what it is.  I understand a higher chance of sprains, but ONLY WHERE THERE IS A REASON FOR RISK OF SUCH. Not in places where you would never fall down if you were anywhere else in the game.

[miah999]

Thanks.

I agree sprain frequency should not be tied to region. 

You should only get one when moving through rough terrain. 

[Support]

Since you've already have read the feedback that I can offer, there is really nothing I can offer in the support forum. I'm going to move the thread to general as it's feedback and  is better served there. 

While we very much want to hear your feedback, please keep it constructive. While I understand you're frustrated there is no need to insult the team.

[continuity]

I like the sprain mechanic, I just don't like the frequency of the sprains.  I don't really care when or where sprains occur.  Flat level ground in good health and weather is fine.. it can happen.  Just make it rare.  I'm not an octopus, I can't reasonably sprain a limb every other day.  Once a month is more like it, preferably less..

[Hotzn]

I remember there was a problem with too many sprains on the TWM map some time ago, I thought it was fixed. Maybe we have a recurring bug here, like the colour-changing cars and the multi-dimensional Farmstead which keep coming back. Maybe this TWM sprain phenomenon could be looked into again.

On a side note, constant sprains can become unnerving. I would prefer if sprains were generally rarer, but more severe (and longer-lasting). As they currently are, they can be slept off in a few hours or remedied quickly with painkillers.

How the sprain mechanic would work in my perfect dream-TLD: 

1. On stalker, sprains can occur right from the start. On voyageur and pilgrim, they don't occur during the first three days.

2. There are light sprains and severe sprains. A light sprain would last 2 days. A severe sprain would last 2 weeks, then turn into a light sprain and last another 2 days. Drinking a cup of herbal tea will reduce the remaining healing time by 50%.

3. A severe sprain on a hand will make it impossible to use that hand while the sprain is severe. Some crafting will become impossible (eg crafting clothes). Rifle and bow cannot be used. All activities that are still possible (except picking up items and placing them) take twice the normal time (eg cleaning the rifle, harvesting stuff).

4. A light sprain on a hand will make all manual activities (except picking up items and placing them) last 50% longer. Aiming the rifle and bow is more difficult than usual.

5. A severe sprain on a foot will make it impossible to run. Walking speed is a lot slower than usual, impeded with visible hobbling (and audible cursing). Player will tire much faster.

6. A light sprain on a foot will make running and walking slower than usual, player will tire faster. There is an elevated risk of twisting the ankle again and turning the injury into a severe sprain if player does not rest enough.

7. Painkillers (one pill for light sprain, two for severe sprain) will make it possible to ignore the effects of the sprain for 4 hours. However, two downsides - healing counter will reset when painkillers wear off, and when running with a light sprain there is an increased risk of turning the injury into a severe sprain.

8. New item: crutch. Can be crafted from three pieces of reclaimed wood and 2 guts. Will help the player to move faster with a sprained ankle and will cause fatigue to rise more slowly while doing so.

[Dirmagnos]

Dont really mind sprains mechanic. It doesnt happen all that often to make a huge impact on the gameplay and its penalties are rather minor(i never even use painkillers for it, since they dont really make any difference for that matter). In fast i think 2 minor(in fact main effect that sprains have on me is annoyance, since my char is complaining nonstop about sprain - yes, i know, for the 99th time, stop fking crying about it). And healing this condition just takes 4 hours of rest. Piece of cake, Imo it could be more severe on that matter. Especially comparing to some absurd features like parasites.

[Berniyh]

Hm, I've been two times to TWM in my current sandbox and survived a total of approx. 20-30 days there. During that time I had maybe 2 sprained wrists/ankles which didn't seem more than you would get anywhere else.

Given that you're walking on a lot of snow, even in flat ground you might hit a spot that is not leveled out and thus could result in an injury. If it would happen on the ice, I'd be more surprised.

Considering that TWM has certainly a much higher snow level than the other regions the chance could be higher (or lower in fact).

But then, since there are more painkillers in the world than anyone could possibly need (you surely run out of other stuff first), what's the big deal?

[Sly]

 

On 7/25/2016 at 4:42 PM, Dirmagnos said:

penalties are rather minor(i never even use painkillers for it, since they dont really make any difference for that matter). In fast i think 2 minor(in fact main effect that sprains have on me is annoyance, since my char is complaining nonstop about sprain - yes, i know, for the 99th time, stop fking crying about it). And healing this condition just takes 4 hours of rest. Piece of cake, Imo it could be more severe on that matter.

Exactly. With the sprained ankle my character starts to limp and unable to run, but its not affect the walking speed much, not at all I think.

It is no need to attend the sprain, it is not hard at all to get the short sleep and be healed. I think it should be some good speed penalty to, lets say 25-40%. Two sprained ankles - more penalty.

Similarly,  sprained wrist leads to just inability to use weapon. The working speed (cutting wood, harvesting carcasses etc) is without penalty. As for me, it should be penalty 25-40% more time for doing operations with hands, similar to described above.

[Ruruwawa]

My biggest problem with the current sprain mechanic is that the chance of getting a sprain varies so much by sandbox instance.  Roll 30 sandboxes on the same difficulty/region and 29 will be "normal" with sprains occurring only when you do risky stuff like traversing rough terrain or fighting wolves.  The 30th sandbox will give you sprains at 3 times the normal rate, many of them for just stepping outside your door, crossing perfectly level ground, or turning -- even a tiny bit -- while walking.  (These rates are my personal experience for normal vs super sprain rate sandboxes of the same difficulty/region.)

Player skill or game knowledge can't prevent most sprains in one of these super-sprain-rate sandboxes.  After buying the Long Dark, my first sandbox that I survived for more than a couple days was one of these.  The only thing I found do to prevent sprains on flat terrain was to never turn while moving. I'd take my hand off the mouse when using the W key, then come to a complete stop in order to adjust my course.  Very tedious to stop every few steps while moving around outside, and really not fun.   

I reported this as a bug on Steam and was told WAI.  I tried to keep playing and soon ran out of painkillers and used up every rose hip in the zone.  I finally gave up after the 3rd day in a row of spraining my wrist when stepping out my door to hunt.   (I called these Random Acts of Nanny -- "no hunting for you, Go to bed!")

So I quit TLD and left a negative review on Steam (capricious gameplay mechanics, typical don't-care EA developers, etc).  I stayed away from the game for months, until I was ready to delete my first and only successful sandbox and try again.  And this time I got a normal sandbox and started to have fun.

I'm baffled that Hinterland believes the super-sprain-rate sandbox variant is a good user experience.  it's especially punishing for new players who (like me) might believe they are the typical TLD experience.  What's the intent behind the 3x sprain rate variant?

[Dirmagnos]

I dont like that sprained wrist leads to inability of using weapons. Imo if left wrist is sprained then gun aim should wander, since you cant get a proper grip and if its right, then theres slight delay between clicking and actual shot occurring and shot spread, so it doesnt go dead center. Both conditions are cumulative.

If one ankle is sprained then speed penalty could be 10%, if both, then 30%. 40% is just 2 much of an annoyance, even 10% would be notable on longer walks. Another possiblity would be increasing penalty, where initial penalty could be just 5%, but as player walks around it gradually increases.

[Rifleman]

On 24 July 2016 at 6:44 AM, TROY said:

I'm a little ticked right now. I finally have proof that the sprain mechanic is being overly aggressive and do a search to find out if its already been reported, and the thread has been closed by support with a final note that the sprain mechanic is working as intended. I'm sorry, but if you intend for players to get sprained ankles and wrists while walking on flat level ground while fully rested and not over loaded, PLEASE do not add any further content into the game. Its done. I don't need the game randomly deciding that i am currently in possession of to many painkillers. bullshit.  I have three screenshots I just took of where i was walking, and how much i was carrying, and the fact that I was fully rested, but if you arent interested in feedback, then its not worth my time, but i'm damn sure gonna have my say.  I love this game, but when y'all go doin' stupid crap like adding random injuries just to make a particular region more difficult, gimmee a break.

The sprain mechanic random not over aggressive, some times I never get sprains for a very long timeother times it's 5-7 sprains in 10-15 days

the developers need to make it more realistic 

[SirWinter]

I can confirm this tweak to the sprain mechanic for sure. On multiple playthroughs I've experienced increased numbers of sprains in TWM. In general, I will get 2-3 sprains in a day on TWM, no matter where I'm walking or what my condition is, whereas in any other region I can go longer than a week without a sprain if I'm avoiding steep terrain.

*possible spoilers* I like the sprain mechanic. Where another developer would put invisible walls, Hinterland has imposed a sensible risk on taking odd paths or abusing the modeling and physics of the game. However, that immersion gets tossed in the trash once you realize that regions have arbitrary modifiers on your chance of getting a sprain. You go from sliding on your butt down a slope very slowly and carefully, which makes complete sense, to spraining my ankle while I am standing still on a mostly level surface. Most of TLD's design impresses from a difficulty perspective, because it's difficulty that makes sense. Immersion and atmosphere come before difficulty. Pleasant Valley is hard because it's so spread out. Coastal Highway is easy because it's dense. Desolation Point has less in it, but you can see the primary safehouse as soon as you enter the region, and from the lighthouse you can see everything important. Mystery Lake has a lot in it, but the hills and forest conceal every location from every other location. Finally, Timberwolf Mountain is incredibly difficult for a ton of reasons that make complete sense. All resources are in the plane cargo. There's a ton of bears. There's only one safehouse and bunch of caves. None of those are arbitrary, and they are all fairly subtle. Increasing sprain chance is really really not.

[terryt3535]

I don't think it's just TWM. In my current sandbox, the ML Perpper Cache is "North" just over the ridge from the Dam . I get a sprain every. time. I try to explore the ridge above the Cache ("East" of the Logging Camp).

@SirWinter, My issue is that there are still invisible walls. I am not sure yet, but I think that there is a higher chance of getting a sprain if you haven't gotten one in the last 24 hr. As just mentioned, this is only in certain areas. I have run down impossibly steep areas and not gotten a sprain, after just curing one, but I was outside of the invisible high sprain risk area.

 

[SirWinter]

@terryt3535 I don't believe there are invisible walls or high sprain risk areas, based on my experience. As far as I can tell, it's entirely based on the slope of the ground and how tired/overweight you are, unless you're in TWM. I've gotten a sprain, taken a pill, and then continued up the slope I was going and gotten another. I've gotten them in odd spots and just on the sides of a road. Outside of TWM, I've never gotten them while sliding/crouching. I get them a lot while overburdened and going sideways or uphill a steep slope. But I'm not the dev.

[TSmith]

Have to agree, way to many sprains in TWM

Moving a few items from the hut to the preppers abandoned cached. No weapon, no water, no food, (had food/water at the cache) 63 lbs of gear While the path from the hut to the cache is not perfectly flat, I dont feel i should have suffered two sprains, (both wrist and ankle) on the trip over, and an ankle sprain coming back

[morgellons]

I personally love the more frequent sprains in TWM.. adds another challenge to the game and causes me to actually need to carry and use meds rather than just always sleep it off.

One time I sprained an ankle and a wrist just grasping the rope to the summit. That was funny.