Skills Feedback

[TROY]

OK, I admit that I have not gotten all the skills up to lvl 5, so I dont know what all the bonuses are for all of them, but I'd like to talk about the ones I do know. Fire Starting, Carcass Harvesting, and Cooking. 

First off, The whole fire starting mechanic needs to be changed. Starting a fire requires four things. Ignition (match, striker, etc), Tinder, KINDLING, and Fuel. I would suggest that you make the current accelerant slot kindling, and make accelerant itself a form of tinder, with the same huge bonus it gets now. Then, make kindling the product of harvesting a stick of cedar firewood, or a stick or even reclaimed wood. (wood from furniture and items like crates burns exceptionally well, and the current negative modifier to start a fire with it is SO WRONG) Also, when a cedar limb is harvested, the character would get two kindling instead of the current two tinder plugs. There are so many other sources of tinder in the game, losing those wouldnt really matter much. Another way to work this, would be to simply allow only sticks/reclaimed wood as the fuel source when igniting a fire, then once its lit, a larger fuel can be added, such as cedar, fir, or firelogs could be added. 

OK, now my feedback on the fire skill.  Making tinder optional is really silly. Even the most seasoned outdoorsman would be hard pressed to start a fire by putting a match to a stick of firewood, but an experienced fire starter CAN start a fire without kindling, so long as they have good tinder. So, I suggest, instead of the bonus being tinder=optional, make the bonus may now add larger fuel immediately instead of needing sticks/reclaimed wood to light, or in simpler terms, Kindling=optional. Also, I think the current bonus of 50% reduction in time required to light needs to be taken away form the skill, and made the reward for the FireMaster Badge. The current reward is to OP, and will seriously affect future challenge once its earned.

As for the cooking skill, I'm fairly happy with it. I've seen a lot of hoopla on here about the extra calorie gain from being a good cook, and I think thats right on target. It simulates that fact that as your skills improve, you aren't wasting as much food in preparation, and you aren't ruining as much by burning it, 

Lastly, Carcass Harvesting.  My biggest beef (pun intended) with this skill is its name. Can we change it to Field Dressing, or even just Skinning?  I would actually like to see it changed to "Hunting" and add a component to it that increases the length of time a blood trail stays or reduces the distance a wounded animal will run, and allows you to get closer to animals without spooking them, but maybe its better if all that is a separate skill I guess. (Also, a skill for the bow) Lastly, back to Carcass Harvesting, even though the skill keeps telling me that i'm getting better at not wasting anything, and knowing the best parts to get, I don't see an actual increase in the average amount of meat that is available to harvest.

[Dirmagnos]

+1

I had an idea for couple of skills, among them tracking.

[WalleyeGuy83]

Regarding the cooking skill; never getting sick due to parasites or food poisoning from your cooked food:

I don't care how well I cooked that piece of meat, if it's rotten (low condition) I should still run the risk of food poisoning.

[TSmith]

I made a lengthy post in the pertinent scholar feedback thread. My post is on page 2.

 

We agree on some things, like the tinder being removed was a big mistake from a realism point of view.  I also suggested that on the next set of skills the bow be added. Crouching shot, less sway when holding the bow draw longer, some sort of stealth, to get a bit closer,  the wind needs to play a factor in stalking.  It seems to attract predators from downwind when your carrying meat, especially uncooked meat.

I have reached level 5 on cooking, and the parasite removal should remain in tact, but you should not become "ye of iron gut" and able to eat anything cooked or canned regardless of the sondition

I see lots of ideas, likes and dislikes of the new skills/ feats system, the team at hinterlands sure has a lot to consider as further tweaking of this system takes place

 

[TROY]

Yeah, I just got my ice fishing skill to level 4, for the first time ever, and I gotta say.. ARE YOU SERIOUS?  It says I somehow always manage to catch the big ones, in the description, but the bonus plus 0% to average weight.  What a poke in the eye!  If the bonus is 0, its not a bonus, why even frickin put it in there?

[TROY]

7 hours ago, WalleyeGuy83 said:

Regarding the cooking skill; never getting sick due to parasites or food poisoning from your cooked food:

I don't care how well I cooked that piece of meat, if it's rotten (low condition) I should still run the risk of food poisoning.

I have to agree. The bonus should be maybe, a 50% less chance of contracting either, rather than total immunity

[Tsayers1068]

Have to agree with a couple of the above posters and say being a master cook should not allow you to eat rancid meat and such with no risk of food poisoning--if anything at very low conditions meat should approach (and eventually reach) 100% chance of food poisoning.  Also, why does cooking meat improve it's condition by 50%?  That never made much sense to me.  Anyone who wants to try irl to cook a piece of rancid meat and eat it is welcome to, but as for me I think I'll pass...

 

This would make more sense to me:

Canned goods: all start at close to 100% and degrade only very slowly if at all.  That's sort of the purpose of putting it in cans.  However, once the can is opened it should degrade much faster.

Other packaged food: degrades faster than canned foods, and faster still when opened.  Still relatively slow to go bad though.

Meat: degrades very quickly--unless frozen.  Maybe all meat should have a frozen condition instead of just carcasses?  It would take longer to cook that way though...

 

Another idea: what if there was a way to preserve meat to last longer, maybe a smokehouse or something?  Would probably be a bit time consuming.

[TSmith]

2 hours ago, TROY said:

I have to agree. The bonus should be maybe, a 50% less chance of contracting either, rather than total immunity

  Please Read this thread from the Steam forum Troy, check and read the links contained in the thread , watch the video about the guy who got parasites. IF you do nothing more Please just read the last post, made by the developers of this game we both love, before they locked the thread

 

http://steamcommunity.com/app/305620/discussions/0/357284131787802636

Parasites that come from wild game, mainly bears come from under cooked meat. There is less than 20 cases a year in the US.,  But if you read at least the last post of that thread you will see that  The DEV's stated " people do get it    " ~less than 20 cases a year in the US

You stand a better chance of getting struck by lightning and DYING than getting parasites

http://www.lightningsafety.noaa.gov/odds.shtml

 

If you read that thread, and included content perhaps you would see the point I am trying to make here and was trying to make there.  Properly cooked meat is properly cooked.

So my point is that in this game, you reach level 5 cooking (MASTER) ( level 3 or 4 would be better suited giving the fact there is less than 20 cases of parasites a year) But once you reach level 5. You should be able to eat all viable meat in this game, without risk of parasites.

But you certainly should not become MR. iron gut and go eating rancid 50% meat or 2% canned milk and not get sick with food poisoning, which is a totally different thing than parasites.

 

 

 

 

[Dirmagnos]

Cooking spoiled meat do decrease risk of getting food poisoning, by a lot. I tend to do that every now and then, when meat becomes... funky. So far so good.

But suddenly completely removed that chance once you reach lvl5, thats just weird and doesnt make much sense. Decrease poisoning/parasite chance per skill level, sure, but even then not totally eliminating it.

[TROY]

@TSmith  Bud, I cannot say I disagree with you, but neither can I support your argument. This is not reality. Listen, I'm ALL FOR coming as close as possible to simulating reality in survival games, but sometimes, we just have to accept that reality isnt much fun, and wouldnt be very challenging. There are SO MANY things in this game, especially on the higher difficulty settings that arent even close to reality. Its all about making the game challenging, engaging, and keeping things interesting. That is why I am against removing all chance of getting either.  While I feel that reaching Master level should come with substantial rewards, I dont feel those rewards should remove all traces of danger or risk from any given activity. I'm sorry, I KNOW you are correct, but I am still against that particular skill bonus. 

[MarrowStone]

I always just told myself tinder bundles in-game were merged with kindling to add simplicity, but i definitely agree that nobody should make tinder optional. Thats far fetched and unrealistic.

I also dislike how firestarting chances dont gradually increase anymore and just jump up suddenly when you level up. 

[TSmith]

@Troy, no worries man, that's what these forums are for, to have intelligent conversation about a game we enjoy

[TROY]

1 hour ago, MarrowStone said:

I always just told myself tinder bundles in-game were merged with kindling to add simplicity, but i definitely agree that nobody should make tinder optional. Thats far fetched and unrealistic.

I also dislike how firestarting chances dont gradually increase anymore and just jump up suddenly when you level up. 

I go one better than that. I refuse to allow myself to start a fire without tinder, even after it becomes optional, and I ALWAYS light the fire with just a stick, like I suggested, and then add my firewood. Just a rule I impose on myself for the sake of feeling more realistic.

[MarrowStone]

Haha i do that too, i use sticks to start mine

[cekivi]

Excellent suggestions! Especially the kindling idea. I've seen similar suggested elsewhere (and I may have even suggested it myself) as part of requests to improve the fire lighting mechanic. As a whole +1

[nicko]

I would like to see a climbing the ropes skill. more climbs you do the slightly easier it gets? slightly easier!

also nice to hear they are adding a bow hunting skill

[cekivi]

14 hours ago, nicko said:

I would like to see a climbing the ropes skill. more climbs you do the slightly easier it gets? slightly easier!

also nice to hear they are adding a bow hunting skill

How about a general athleticism skill? It'd be particularly interesting if you could lose points in this skill for unhealthy behaviour (e.g. starving yourself).

[nicko]

not sure if athleticism is right word.

Athleticism is the quality of having the kind of strength and energy that makes a great athlete. It takes athleticism to run marathons, play pro football, or sprint down a cobblestone street in high heels without falling. (not that i have

But yeah starving yourself - perhaps the fatigue levels need adjusting for that.

[Wastelander]

On 24.8.2016 at 11:40 PM, cekivi said:

How about a general athleticism skill? It'd be particularly interesting if you could lose points in this skill for unhealthy behaviour (e.g. starving yourself).

This is a very good idea. As for the skill - I do some game design myself (pen&paper RPGs, so I don't have to deal with programming ) - I usually incorrectly call the skill for all things ground-related Athleticism (or Athletik in German), and everything that has to do with climbing, jumping etc, Acrobatics (Or Akrobatik in German). However, for the purpose of TLD, one combined skill would be better, and handing out a penalty for starving ourselves would encourage players to be more engaged.

[nicko]

1 hour ago, Wastelander said:

This is a very good idea. As for the skill - I do some game design myself (pen&paper RPGs, so I don't have to deal with programming ) - I usually incorrectly call the skill for all things ground-related Athleticism (or Athletik in German), and everything that has to do with climbing, jumping etc, Acrobatics (Or Akrobatik in German). However, for the purpose of TLD, one combined skill would be better, and handing out a penalty for starving ourselves would encourage players to be more engaged.

Say I have no food and I begin to starve! you think that is related to athleticism? how and why? has nothing to do with athleticism.you think starving people in the world think about athleticism? just saying.

You starve you get sick. lack energy etc and eventually die.

[Wastelander]

Just now, nicko said:

Say I have no food and I begin to starve! you think that is related to athleticism? how and why? has nothing to do with athleticism.you think starving people in the world think about athleticism? just saying

I may have worded things awkwardly here - Athleticism would just be a skillname related to running, climbing and other stuff you do to get from A to B faster in TLD. And yeah, starving certainly doesn't help in these conditions.

[Doc Gonzo]

2 minutes ago, Wastelander said:

I may have worded things awkwardly here - Athleticism would just be a skillname related to running, climbing and other stuff you do to get from A to B faster in TLD. And yeah, starving certainly doesn't help in these conditions.

Would 'condition' better a better word to frame the situation?  I think the athleticism / akrobatik issue might be a bit confused as the terms are treated differently in Germany and the U.S.   I'm an American living in Germany (for the past 10 years) and from my perspective it looks like it's a cultural use of the word that's mucking up the concept.

[Wastelander]

Just now, Doc Gonzo said:

Would 'condition' better a better word to frame the situation?  I think the athleticism / akrobatik issue might be a bit confused as the terms are treated differently in Germany and the U.S.   I'm an American living in Germany (for the past 10 years) and from my perspective it looks like it's a cultural use of the word that's mucking up the concept.

Well, condition is already taken by the overall condition. But you're right, it does need a different name - 'Movement' maybe?

[nicko]

anyways a job for HInterland to work out if they have not already! they seem to be working on skills sets.

[Wastelander]

Yeah, I guess from where they are they can see those solutions more clearly than any of us. Stoked for the update!