Sprain Ratio in TWM

[Ohbal]

Hey all fellow survivors, 

Anyone feels that the sprain ratio in TWM is a bit off? I get a sprain every single day on average, sometimes above that.. and I almost never hit the run key. I sometimes walk on uneven terrain, but I've been doing this in every map and never felt it so arbitrary as in TWM. Is this as design? It could very well be, being a high mountain area, just wanted to know what's the feeling around this. 

[hauteecolerider]

I had the opposite experience just now. Been exploring TWM for several days now (I think I'm at the 21 day mark in this map) and have cleared out the wreck on the mountaintop, brought it all down in multiple trips and only just now sprained my ankle and wrist on the last trip to bring the last load to the hut. The one place where I was getting an unusual ton of sprains was Mystery Lake. Go figure.

[Ohbal]

Oh my, then I'm clueless!

I had two theories: either it was as designed (the terrain being more dangerous, packed with hidden holes and things like that) or, being it the newest map, still had some pending work on layout. 

But after your feedback, it may be just plain bad luck. 

[piddy3825]

On 3/28/2016 at 3:28 AM, Ohbal said:

Hey all fellow survivors, 

Anyone feels that the sprain ratio in TWM is a bit off? I get a sprain every single day on average, sometimes above that.. and I almost never hit the run key. I sometimes walk on uneven terrain, but I've been doing this in every map and never felt it so arbitrary as in TWM. Is this as design? It could very well be, being a high mountain area, just wanted to know what's the feeling around this. 

You are so right!  I was wondering if it was just me, but it seems like my character cant go more than 36 hours without without spraining an ankle, wrist or both even on some occassions.  Got to the point that I started loading up each good campfire spot with enough wood that i could build a 6 hour fire so that i could sleep the required 2-4 hours to heal.   

[Scyzara]

Not sure if this is just a matter of luck or if you guys are playing somehow differently than me, but I personally can't confirm such high sprain ratios at all. Neither in TWM nor elsewhere. If anything, my sprain ratios are rather low given what I'm doing.

I've lately started a "longer" normal game (I usually only play short challenges and abandon the games afterwards) to get ready for the new update. Just wanted to craft some nice fur clothes, collect several books (as these might become readable), get a bow and 20 arrows and things like that. Just to be prepared for some awesome cougar hunting or whatever else we might get.

So I just played a "normal" game, looted two whole maps so far, walked on slopes heavily encumbered pretty much all the time (as I was hauling 8kg of half-dried skins and a dozen books with me) and even jumped down smaller cliffs every now and then on purpose.

In the end I sustained 3 sprains in 24 days from walking 30km (and 4 more sprains during wolf fights, but these don't count imo). That's really not much given I did nothing to avoid sprains (= avoiding slopes and encumbrance) at all.^^

During the sea to summit challenge runs it was pretty much the same. As far as I remember I never got more than 3 sprains while travelling the challenge's distance (25-27km). Most often not even that. Maybe I'm just extraordinary lucky, but I personally find the current sprain ratios totally appropriate.

 

[elloco999]

I can't say I get many sprains myself. I haven't spend much time on TWM yet but I have not noted a higher rate of sprains here then elsewhere.

[piddy3825]

16 hours ago, elloco999 said:

I can't say I get many sprains myself. I haven't spend much time on TWM yet but I have not noted a higher rate of sprains here then elsewhere.

you got me wondering so i looked up the stats on this current run;

32 days in Pilgrim mode spawning on Timberwolf Mt: 11 ankle sprains 10 wrist sprains, doing the math that equates a sprain every 35 hours!

 

[Vhalkyrie]

Yes, I get a lot of sprains on TWM.  I never run, not encumbered, and I get sprained walking up the path to the hut!  I definitely get sprained on TWM more than other maps.

[Scyzara]

5 hours ago, piddy3825 said:

you got me wondering so i looked up the stats on this current run;

32 days in Pilgrim mode spawning on Timberwolf Mt: 11 ankle sprains 10 wrist sprains, doing the math that equates a sprain every 35 hours!

May I suggest number of sprains/distance walked on slopes as a more meaningful way to measure the specific sprain ratio of an area?^^

How many sprains you get is directly correlated to how many km you walk on slopes and TWM simply has a lot of slopes. At least 50% of your movement in TWM happens on slopes by default (probably more if you don't try to avoid it). If you walk the same number of km in ML, PV and TWM, you might spend 20% of the time on slopes in ML and maybe 30% of the time on slopes in PV, but more than 50% of the time on slopes in TWM. 

You need to take this into consideration when counting your sprains in TWM and comparing these numbers to sprain numbers in other areas. Let me explain what I mean with an example:

2 characters both walked 50km in 30 days, one in ML and the other one in TWM. The ML guy got 5 sprains, the TWM guy 15 sprains.

ML:  50km x 20% (ML slope modifier) = 10km on slopes -> 5 sprains

TWM:   50km x 60% (TWM slope modifier) = 30km on slopes -> 15 sprains

Both of the above examples have the very same sprain ratio per km walked on slopes (1 sprain each 2km), but they would have different amounts of sprains per time (or sprains per distance walked in general). But that's not the relevant point when comparing them. The numbers above may be a bit exaggerated (no idea what might be the exact values for the slope modifiers), but I think you get my point.^^

TL, DR:

I very much doubt that there is a special secret "sprain ratio algorithm" for TWM. You're most likely just experiencing the sideeffects of the alpine map design with its numerous slopes.

[piddy3825]

On the other hand, apparently you can walk/hop or jump down some pretty steep cliffs without taking injury.  I kinda took a wrong turn and before I could stop I step off onto a lower ledge and could not return up.  Only option was down...  so I crouched and walked diagonally suddenly dropping 20 feet but still walking when I landed.  I was fully expecting to be injured and at worse to be killed, but I just kept walking...  I dont know if being overencumbered help to cushion the fall or did I slid down the hillside, but i did stop to take these screen shots so you be the judge.  

Top of the ledge, maybe the camera angle doesn't do it justice but it's almost straight up from bottom to the top of the ledge, 

Where I land, see the slip mark then normal gait resumes that has got to at least 20 feet, 7-10 meters?  No sprain

I just looted two cargo pods and was schleping my swag home...

 

[piddy3825]

Well, I do believe there is an actual

22 minutes ago, Scyzara said:

 special secret "sprain ratio algorithm" for TWM

and if I read the Support Host response post correctly in Vhalkyrie's post in the PC Feedback forum the sprain ratio algorithm was actually designed to increase the sprain ratio in TWM.  Good theory though and well explained, kinda reminded me of those math problems we would get in high school.  "A train leaves Boston heading West at 70 mph..."

[Scyzara]

8 minutes ago, piddy3825 said:

and if I read the Support Host response post correctly in Vhalkyrie's post in the PC Feedback forum the sprain ratio algorithm was actually designed to increase the sprain ratio in TWM.  Good theory though and well explained, kinda reminded me of those math problems we would get in high school.  "A train leaves Boston heading West at 70 mph..."

Not sure what you mean exactly. In my opinion the Support just said it's working as intended that you have an increased chance for sprains when walking on slopes (e.g. the small slope leading up to the mountaineer's cabin). Don't see any hint for an increased sprain ratio in TWM here. oO

Quote

Did want to note that technically the sprain ankle event is correct and working as designed. The ground around the cabin is very uneven, so it does have a higher chance of triggering sprains. We are looking into improving the system as well as give the player more feedback as to why it happened, but right now my suggestion would be to not run over them. 

Anyway, I guess it doesn't really matter much. One could theoretically reverse engineer the sprain ratios in different areas, but I really lack the motivation for that. Would require way too much work (several rl hours of walking around on equally steep slopes in different areas) for way too little gain. Maybe we're lucky and Raph or another member of the team answers the question.^^

[Jolan]

I've gotten them just walking along the road, unencumbered and unfatiged - for a while there I couldn't go a half an hour without a sprain.  But it got better.  Right now I'm tracking if treatment affects frequency

[Vhalkyrie]

I got sprained stepping out of the fishing hut.  Support said sprains working as intended.  ::shrug::

[elloco999]

ice = slippery = chance to sprain an ankle.

So it's not just slopes but also slippery surfaces.

[hauteecolerider]

6 hours ago, elloco999 said:

ice = slippery = chance to sprain an ankle.

So it's not just slopes but also slippery surfaces.

This.

[piddy3825]

I may be off base, but if I was reading the various multiple threads regarding this subject correctly, I got the distinct impression that the sprain mechanics for TWM were indeed ramped up to cause more sprains on this map as compared to others.  Hence the comments that the sprain ratio mechanics were working as designed.  If you could see the "event point" for each sprain mechanic represented as a red dot, you would indeed see lots of red dots in the commonly walked areas around the map, intentionally more as compared to other maps in the game.  

[Ohbal]

I'm fine with it being as design or working as intended. 

its just a bit weird. The feeling... I mean, I got sprains practically every day I passed at TWM. I was actually freaking out about them, thinking what am I doing wrong here? It feels like its completely out of control. I know that, in a place like that, I would be careful with my footing. I try to be as careful as one can be in a "press W to walk forward" scenario, never running, picking the less inclined slopes... but yet, CRRRACK! you got a sprain while walking this apparently even ground. I've been out of TWM mountain for more than 2 weeks in game now, and I think I got one sprain with a way more reckless gameplay.  

[Ruruwawa]

Just curious about the mouse folks are using.  This will sound weird, but I had a ridiculous rate of sprains on flat, obstacle-free ground until I reduced the DPI on my gaming mouse + reduced the Mouse Sensitivity game setting.  Probably I just had terribad luck and I'm imagining the correlation, but my rate of sprains dropped to about 1/5 of what it was prior to changing these settings (and it's stayed there in the 100 or so gameplay hours since).  It made me wonder whether mouse acceleration is part of the sprain algorithm.  Back in the bad ol days before I thought to change my mouse settings, I could avoid level-ground sprains 100% of the time by stopping, then turning, then resuming walking.

[Vhalkyrie]

23 hours ago, Ruruwawa said:

Just curious about the mouse folks are using.  This will sound weird, but I had a ridiculous rate of sprains on flat, obstacle-free ground until I reduced the DPI on my gaming mouse + reduced the Mouse Sensitivity game setting.  Probably I just had terribad luck and I'm imagining the correlation, but my rate of sprains dropped to about 1/5 of what it was prior to changing these settings (and it's stayed there in the 100 or so gameplay hours since).  It made me wonder whether mouse acceleration is part of the sprain algorithm.  Back in the bad ol days before I thought to change my mouse settings, I could avoid level-ground sprains 100% of the time by stopping, then turning, then resuming walking.

This is actually a very interesting thought.  Yes, I do have a very high DPI mouse.  I will try a lower setting when I get the chance.  Thank you for being very reasonable and attempting to solve the issue.   I'll report back if I note anything different.

[random calliope]

I don't see any mention about where players are looking when sprains happen.  It might be my imagination, but I usually get sprains when I'm walking and looking around too much.  Walking up a slope but looking too far side to side for too long, or even walking on level ground.  It seems like when I look around enough that I'd actually be side-stepping to move forward while looking any direction but forward that's when a sprain happens.

[hauteecolerider]

4 hours ago, random calliope said:

I don't see any mention about where players are looking when sprains happen.  It might be my imagination, but I usually get sprains when I'm walking and looking around too much.  Walking up a slope but looking too far side to side for too long, or even walking on level ground.  It seems like when I look around enough that I'd actually be side-stepping to move forward while looking any direction but forward that's when a sprain happens.

This actually makes sense. It seems in my Voyager playthroughs I'm getting more sprains because I'm busy watching for wolves and bears, while in Pilgrim mode I didn't care if there were any around. 

I've started a couple of techniques when moving across slopes - I don't head straight down the slope but rather angle across it. Sometimes I have to switch back but that's what it takes. Also if I need to look around, I stop, then I turn in place without moving. I also stop frequently to look for the least slope and head for that. Without some kind of scientific testing method in place, my conclusions are purely subjective, but it seems like I sprain less. 

It's interesting about the mouse settings. I play with the trackpad on my MBP and have it on the default tracking speed. I have experimented with the settings, but find that higher settings (more sensitivity, increased tracking speed) don't translate well into gameplay. So the only change I have on this is that "tap to click" is turned on, so I only have to touch the trackpad with my thumb to click. It makes things much easier for me. 

[Ohbal]

1 hour ago, hauteecolerider said:

I've started a couple of techniques when moving across slopes - I don't head straight down the slope but rather angle across it. Sometimes I have to switch back but that's what it takes. Also if I need to look around, I stop, then I turn in place without moving. I also stop frequently to look for the least slope and head for that. Without some kind of scientific testing method in place, my conclusions are purely subjective, but it seems like I sprain less. 

We are coming out with very interesting theories about the sprain thingie. Not sure if any of them is spot-on, but this is quite an interesting guessing game. 

This theory of yours is something I've been experimenting with as well. One of the "common" factors of most sprains I got was that I was looking around. Being this a First Person game, you need to imagine what the actual character's model is doing. When "drawing" the motion in my head I could absolutely link the higher chances of falling when not looking what is directly ahead of you. 

The hardest part of this experiment is to be consistent with your gamepley. FPS have been a great part of my gamer life, specially when I was younger, and I guess I have "evolved" with this "ticks" when playing. I can't help looking around, doing 360's, zig-zaging, quick-sprinting... so I hope you guys can come out with more consistent feedback as still can't consider my experience a solid one. 

[Vhalkyrie]

Just wanted to post an update.  While Sprains aren't listed as something that was fixed in the recent patch, I have noticed that since v.327 I am no longer getting sprains walking on flat terrain in normal conditions randomly.  The only sprain I have got since the new patch is one in which I jumped off a high ledge running away from a wolf, which is a situation I can totally expect a sprain.  But no more random sprains just walking around picking up sticks.

[piddy3825]

I recently started a new game and have practically been jump crouch walking down the cliff sides with out as much as a scratch.  ok, that's a little white lie, but i dont really count minor bruising or torn clothing much of a medical emergency.