Harvest waterfalls for water

[octavian]

Why not?

[Bill Tarling]

Even in real life, it's riskier than it sounds... and in sub-freezing temperatures, the backspray from the falls would also pose a huge risk as you would be soaked, and open to hypothermia/freezing fairly fast.

[octavian]

Precisely, that's something the game can already do, make your clothes wet/frozen, but it's never an issue unless you go for a dip in CH. Your items too? I don't know because it never happens.

TLD in general is about risky, I mean, that’s kind of the point, isn’t it? Fighting wolves hand to paw and all that.

As far as realism goes, gameplay should always come before realism. It's not realistic for liquid water to disappear into the fourth dimension either, and the spray from the falls should affect you regardless if you're harvesting water or not, which it doesn't, even though the game has the ability to do that.

I think it would be a good balance, potable water at the expense of wet/frozen clothes. A good reason to have extra sets of clothes instead of having just one and harvesting every other clothing item.

[n00bas]

Since they are planning to implement seasons, harvesting waterfalls will probably be a thing there. Right now your main supply for water is snow, but if that goes then you will need some other ways to retrieve water. Waterfalls will be perfect for that and in the spring/summer time you probably don't have to be afraid of freezing to death when gathering it.

[octavian]

Since they are planning to implement seasons, harvesting waterfalls will probably be a thing there. Right now your main supply for water is snow, but if that goes then you will need some other ways to retrieve water. Waterfalls will be perfect for that and in the spring/summer time you probably don't have to be afraid of freezing to death when gathering it.

So you would mind having this option also during the winter?

[elloco999]

While I wouldn't mind the option to harvest water from waterfalls it should make you wet and cold if you do this. However, the result would be that it would be hardly used because the punishment is too great for the reward. So it might be better to not spend a time developing this option but instead use that time on some option that would be used.

[octavian]

To me it sounds like you already decided on what the implementation would be like and figured out the punishment is too great for the reward.

So, please, feel free to share, how wet/frozen do you get per liter of water harvested from a waterfall?

Don't take it personally, take it seriously ( ˘ ³˘)♥

[AmericanSteel]

Trying to gather flying water sounds like a death sentence. You have unstable ice above you (crushing hazard), unstable ice under your feet (immersion hazard) and a super slick surface to cross (kinetic injury waiting to happen).

Just let me gather water from the hole in the ice shack and lets call it good.

[octavian]

Just let me gather water from the hole in the ice shack and lets call it good.

Awesome idea. +1

[saxel]

yes, +1 also

[elloco999]

To me it sounds like you already decided on what the implementation would be like and figured out the punishment is too great for the reward.

So, please, feel free to share, how wet/frozen do you get per liter of water harvested from a waterfall?

Don't take it personally, take it seriously ( ˘ ³˘)♥

I've stood next to a waterfall several times in my life, so I have some experience in the matter. If you stand close enough to fill a water bottle you'll be standing in spray comparable to a light rain shower. And let's not forget the water that will be running over your hand and splashing all over your arm. In the time it takes to fill a .5L water bottle, even a wide mouth nalgene bottle, the outer layer of your clothes would get wet enough that their warmth bonus would diminish. By how much, I could not say.

But as far as I'm concerned any moisture on my clothes that could have been avoided is too much. So I would only harvest water from a waterfall if I had no way to make fire and I was (almost) dehydrated and there was no other way to obtain water within a recent amount of time (get to any of my stashes, get to a house with a toilet I haven't drained yet, get to a place where I can make a fire). So it would really be for emergencies only. And I can honestly say I have never been in such a situation during the many hours I have played TLD.

So no, I can't see this option being used much if it gets implemented. It is simply too easy already to get water. In fact, it is so easy to get water that I use it to mark important trails with by dropping .5L water bottles every 10-15 or so yards to help me find my way during fog/ a blizzard. Why would you risk getting wet from a waterfall (and you still need to purify it) if water is so easy to get.

Now getting water from a hole in the ice is something I might do. But probably only if I found a hole in the ice, as I find it a waste of my tools to use them to make a hole in the ice. So for me this would probably also be an emergency only thing, but I can see other players using it, so I give it my +1.

[octavian]

I've stood next to a waterfall several times in my life, so I have some experience in the matter. If you stand close enough to fill a water bottle you'll be standing in spray comparable to a light rain shower. And let's not forget the water that will be running over your hand and splashing all over your arm. In the time it takes to fill a .5L water bottle, even a wide mouth nalgene bottle, the outer layer of your clothes would get wet enough that their warmth bonus would diminish. By how much, I could not say.

It doesn't have to be balanced for realism, it has to be balanced for gameplay, like everything else.

Why would you risk getting wet from a waterfall (and you still need to purify it) if water is so easy to get.

Getting 30L of water in half an hour? Maybe you don't even need to purify it, how about that. Fast moving water in isolated, high elevation areas isn't safe to drink only if there's a dead animal in it upsteam. And since there is no point in arguing against the idea in such a contrived way, I still think it would be a good balance and an interesting option, harvest drinkable water in a short amount of time at the cost of freezing and needing a change of clothes as they become wet/frozen.

[elloco999]

It doesn't have to be balanced for realism, it has to be balanced for gameplay, like everything else.

True, but too little realism is also not got for gameplay.

Why would you risk getting wet from a waterfall (and you still need to purify it) if water is so easy to get.

Getting 30L of water in half an hour? Maybe you don't even need to purify it, how about that. Fast moving water in isolated, high elevation areas isn't safe to drink only if there's a dead animal in it upsteam. And since there is no point in arguing against the idea in such a contrived way, I still think it would be a good balance and an interesting option, harvest drinkable water in a short amount of time at the cost of freezing and needing a change of clothes as they become wet/frozen.

How would you get 30L in half an hour from a waterfall?

The snow you melt is also pretty safe to drink if you pick fresh snow that has not been treaded on. But you still need to boil that. Same with water from a waterfall.

Sure you could strip all realism to make harvesting water from a waterfall an usable alternative to the other methods of gathering water in the game, but I would not call that balance.

[AmericanSteel]

I still think getting water directly through the ice (like an ice hole) would be the best way to go. The mechanic already exists in the game to get TO the water. The devs just need to give us an option for gathering it if the hole is open.

Which brings me back to using rocks to melt a hole through the ice (using the fire box in the shed). Or let me make a primitive hammer/axe (wood, rock, cured gut) to bash with. Or let me craft a hardened spear (wood, + whittling + heat). If I trade the time and materials on one end to counter balance the snow melting time.

[octavian]

I still think getting water directly through the ice (like an ice hole) would be the best way to go. The mechanic already exists in the game to get TO the water. The devs just need to give us an option for gathering it if the hole is open.

This should be in the game regardless of if you can get water from waterfalls

[elloco999]

I still think getting water directly through the ice (like an ice hole) would be the best way to go. The mechanic already exists in the game to get TO the water. The devs just need to give us an option for gathering it if the hole is open.

This should be in the game regardless of if you can get water from waterfalls

Agreed!

[ChillPlayer]

Yeah harvesting water from a waterfall in freezing weather would not be a good idea. But what always bothered me: I can't think of a single waterfall where there's actually something to loot or gain from going there. There are some that have caves nearby but there's still some 100 meters to walk until you reach the waterfall - only to find nothing but graphical beauty which you could bask in from far away already.

So it'd be nice if the devs would add some loot spawnpoints directly by the waterfall, maybe guarded by the occasional ninja fluffy

[Bill Tarling]

There are some that have caves nearby but there's still some 100 meters to walk until you reach the waterfall - only to find nothing but graphical beauty which you could bask in from far away already.

Don't forget some areas also act more as visual landmarks (even from a distance) to help orient your direction when travelling or lost

[EternityTide]

As someone who lives in one of the wettest places in the Northern Hemisphere (Wales) I have stood close to my fair share of (sometimes quite large) waterfalls, and can tell you that if you're wearing a decent waterproof coat and some thick jeans, the amount of moisture that manages to reach you is minimal.

Combined with high winds and freezing moisture, walking along the coastline in Wales during November is not pleasant, but wearing a thick waterproof reduces the strain to a minimum.

[ark1of712]

Gathering water from falling water? Whoa there, slow down with your craziness.

[EternityTide]

That being said, the bottle is more likely going to be ripped from your hand and sent hurtling downstream. filling a bottle from a tap at full blast is difficult enough, let alone a waterfall.

[octavian]

Too bad you can't warp your water bottle into the fourth dimension where all that liquid water goes to, then you could have a mini-game, I'd call it, fishing out your water bottle from the fourth dimension where all that liquid water goes to :?

If you argue the bottle being ripped from your hand, you should also argue against snow being bright white at night and Mackenzie not knowing rose hips are edible, in other words, I don't think the realism on the game hangs on the thread of the bottle being ripped from your hand or not.

And I still think taking liquid water from fishing holes is a good idea.

[Shanti]

+1 for getting non-potable water from fishing holes.

Personally, I feel like at this point, the waterfalls should probably be frozen solid. the fact that they are not begs a lot of really awkward questions.

[Boston123]

+1 for getting non-potable water from fishing holes.

Personally, I feel like at this point, the waterfalls should probably be frozen solid. the fact that they are not begs a lot of really awkward questions.

If the water is moving fast enough, or is deep enough, it won't freeze, regardless of how cold it is. In northern Alaska, there are rivers that flow year-round.

In fact, snow and ice acts as an insulator. Underneath a layer of snow or ice, it will basically never get below 32 degrees F/ 0 degrees C. This is why in my region of the US (New England), farmers spray their cranberry crops with a mist of water, so that it will freeze and insulate the crops from the winter cold.

This insulation property is why you can build a shelter in snow and be perfectly warm , so long as you have the proper clothing/blanket/sleeping system. 32/0 degrees + warm clothing = pretty comfortable, even if it is negative 50 degrees F outside.

I am .... rather surprised the Devs haven't included a "snow shelter", yet. They aren't difficult to build, won't take long, and will save your life if you get caught outside in cold/bad weather

[Shanti]

If the water is moving fast enough, or is deep enough, it won't freeze, regardless of how cold it is. In northern Alaska, there are rivers that flow year-round.

In fact, snow and ice acts as an insulator. Underneath a layer of snow or ice, it will basically never get below 32 degrees F/ 0 degrees C. This is why in my region of the US (New England), farmers spray their cranberry crops with a mist of water, so that it will freeze and insulate the crops from the winter cold.

This insulation property is why you can build a shelter in snow and be perfectly warm , so long as you have the proper clothing/blanket/sleeping system. 32/0 degrees + warm clothing = pretty comfortable, even if it is negative 50 degrees F outside.

I am .... rather surprised the Devs haven't included a "snow shelter", yet. They aren't difficult to build, won't take long, and will save your life if you get caught outside in cold/bad weather

I understand this principle. It makes sense for deep bodies of water, like mystery lake, or the ocean along the Coastal Highway, and even large, fast moving rivers, either flowing under a skin of ice or open. What I struggle with is: fast moving river flowing under ice, exits ice and enters free fall in waterfall. As it falls, through the freezing air, shouldn't the water temperature drop, and a significant amount of it turn to ice? The rivers we see as flowing waterfalls are significant, but they're not exactly huge. It just seems that after weeks and months of temperatures at night falling to -30, the waterfalls should ice up - whether or not there is still water moving underneath that layer of vertical ice.

A snow shelter is actually warmer than freezing. The walls will always remain at 32/0, but if ventilated right, you will bring the air temperature up, often into the 50's F. With a thermal break between you and the snow, they can become downright toasty. It is important to shape the roof so the melting snow doesn't drip on you though...

The main problem with snow shelters is that they are difficult to make without getting yourself wet. Wet clothes in cold temperatures can kill, unless you know how to dry out again in your shelter. Unless the Dev's also introduce a wet / dry mechanic, I have the feeling that snow shelters will be overpowered, or take way to long to build, as a balance mechanic.

Back to your snow and ice as an insulator, this is also why it's much easier to heat a cabin when it's snowed in. The snow super-insulates it, keeping the heat inside the cabin long after a fire goes out. I would love to see interiors in TLD lag behind daytime temperatures by 3-4 hours (IE be really cold, but no wind chill), but as soon as you light a fire, the temperature should rocket up and hold for 6-8 hours easily, especially in a mostly buried, one story structure. Something like the camp office, with an entire story exposed would obviously loose heat more quickly, although the snow on the roof would help a lot.