DLC items in story mode

[JerimiahSettle]

DLC items in story mode? 

If you never played the story mode, DO IT! You're really doing this game a disservice if you never have. Episode 3 is my favorite! Episode 4 is great too.

[odizzido]

I am not playing it until they finish the game and then patch it up. I don't want my story to be broken apart by months.

[hozz1235]

Story and Survival modes are part of the "base" game.  You are asking to incorporate paid DLC content in the base version of the game?  What if you haven't bought the DLC?

[UpUpAway95]

26 minutes ago, hozz1235 said:

Story and Survival modes are part of the "base" game.  You are asking to incorporate paid DLC content in the base version of the game?  What if you haven't bought the DLC?

Not only that story mode and survival mode are now two separate games.  It is possible to have bought story mode only without having bought the survival mode at all and vice verse.  The only way I see this sort of thing happening is if they create a separate DLC for the story mode and give people who bought it for the survival mode a credit for having purchased it there.

Edited November 30, 2023 by UpUpAway95

[JerimiahSettle]

@hozz1235

Then you would not have the items in either mode that was a dumb question. 

@UpUpAway95

Can you really have one mode and not have the other?  I have never seen an option to just buy the story or just buy the survival mode. 

[UpUpAway95]

1 hour ago, JerimiahSettle said:

@hozz1235

Then you would not have the items in either mode that was a dumb question. 

@UpUpAway95

Can you really have one mode and not have the other?  I have never seen an option to just buy the story or just buy the survival mode. 

I re-read the announcement and I did misunderstand it (assumed that since they were going to allow people to buy just Survival Mode in the form of the Survival Edition that they would also do the reciprocal situation and allow people who had no interest in the survival sandbox to purchase only Wintermute).  I guess really what they did was reduce Wintermute to sort of a DLC status for the main game (which is now the survival mode).  This information is contained in the original announcement of Tales of the Far Territory and it still means it is possible to own Tales and not own Wintermute, and vice verse (unless they backed off this original plan and are now only selling the full edition of The Long Dark with just Tales as DLC).

I still don't see it happening though since it would probably require a lot of re-writing in Wintermute Episodes 1-4.  I guess we'll find out when they eventually release Episode 5.

Edited December 1, 2023 by UpUpAway95

[ajb1978]

Even if somehow the DLC were added you wouldn't get to explore any of it. The version of Broken Railroad in story mode is unfinished on that side of the bridge. There's no rail tunnel, no truck, and of course the gap is impassable. Some regions were apparently flat out removed. Used to be if you glitched your way out of bounds you could explore the rest of the world. Now though, Bleak Inlet, Coastal Highway, Ash Canyon hard lock at the loading screen if you try to enter the region. Only way out is to Alt-F4 the game. And although Blackrock is in Story mode there's no way to glitch into or out of the region, as it's completely cut off from the world map.

The two branches are going to continue diverge more and more, so yeah....not gonna happen!

[JerimiahSettle]

@ajb1978

If they did add it, you would get to explore it, BECAUSE THEY ADDED IT.  They would fix the unfinished part and whatever else needed to be fixed, What are you smoking?

Besides, I was more so talking about the dlc items. (Like the cooking items in frontier comforts) There's no reason to go to the airfield in story mode. Also story mode items need to be added to survival, but I made that thread already.

[ajb1978]

5 hours ago, JerimiahSettle said:

@ajb1978

If they did add it, you would get to explore it, BECAUSE THEY ADDED IT.  They would fix the unfinished part and whatever else needed to be fixed, What are you smoking?

Besides, I was more so talking about the dlc items. (Like the cooking items in frontier comforts) There's no reason to go to the airfield in story mode. Also story mode items need to be added to survival, but I made that thread already.

The DLC stacks on top of Survival mode. Assets from Survival mode are missing. Therefore the DLC cannot be applied no matter how much anyone wants to. You'd have the same luck applying the DLC to Super Mario Bros. Wonder.

Appling the Survival mode assets back into story mode would be direclty going against the whole purpose behind which they split them into two branches to begin with. There's no point adding Survival mode content back into Story mode since again, unless you glitch your way out of bounds, you can't get there.

[UpUpAway95]

8 hours ago, JerimiahSettle said:

@ajb1978

If they did add it, you would get to explore it, BECAUSE THEY ADDED IT.  They would fix the unfinished part and whatever else needed to be fixed, What are you smoking?

Besides, I was more so talking about the dlc items. (Like the cooking items in frontier comforts) There's no reason to go to the airfield in story mode. Also story mode items need to be added to survival, but I made that thread already.

To expand on @ajb1978,s post, here is the link to the Dev Diary in which Raph explains HL's decision to split Survival and Story Modes (i.e. creating the Survival Edition of the game, which does not include Witnermute).

https://hinterlandforums.com/forums/topic/41847-april-developer-diary/

 

[JerimiahSettle]

@ajb1978 @UpUpAway95

You guys are so hung up on this split between the game modes, but really are they different? It's really the same map, same wolf's, same bears, same needs. I understand there's layers here, but there's no way it's impossible. And also so what if they're split? I don't see why it can't be done, in fact, I'm sure it could be done. This is also a wish wall, okay? So take it easy killers. Coming in hot like "NO, THIS CAN'T BE DONE, EVER! F*** YOU!" Dayum (that was a joke) Bet if they had the funding...

But yeah, here's hoping it happens

[UpUpAway95]

5 hours ago, JerimiahSettle said:

@ajb1978 @UpUpAway95

You guys are so hung up on this split between the game modes, but really are they different? It's really the same map, same wolf's, same bears, same needs. I understand there's layers here, but there's no way it's impossible. And also so what if they're split? I don't see why it can't be done, in fact, I'm sure it could be done. This is also a wish wall, okay? So take it easy killers. Coming in hot like "NO, THIS CAN'T BE DONE, EVER! F*** YOU!" Dayum (that was a joke) Bet if they had the funding...

But yeah, here's hoping it happens

It's not impossible, but it is a lot of work for a small studio and their rationale for the split was, as stated, that keeping up with adding mechanics to both sides of the game was becoming overwhelming as the survival mode of the game grew well beyond their original expectations.  Also, there is a feeling here that HL wants to move onto a new game, possibly a TLD 2, instead of being saddled to (and possibly being held back by) the now very old architecture of this one. 

I never said it was impossible and certainly never even implied the rude words you've put into my mouth in your post I've quoted here (saying it was a joke still doesn't make it right).  In fact my original comment was that the only way I could see it happening was if they created a separate DLC for Wintermute specifically (and gave us a credit for already purchasing the Survival Mode DLC).  

It is still a BIG ask and it is UNLIKELY to ever happen.  Honestly, I don't think perfect parity between survival mode and Wintermute is all a good thing.  Variety is the spice of life - 2 different games for the price of one suits me fine.

Edited December 3, 2023 by UpUpAway95

[xanna]

@UpUpAway95 Very well said

[ajb1978]

It's also worth pointing out that the DLC content isn't all restricted to the Far Territory, and a lot of it is randomized. The Hunter's Revolver for example appears in one of the 9 randomized prepper caches, all of which are in Lower Great Bear. What if that bunker happens to spawn in Bleak Inlet? Boom, now we've got to add Bleak Inlet back to Story Mode, modify Episode 2 to allow the player to leave Mystery Lake and enter the Ravine, and at that point you've just broken Story mode. It also means Astrid has no hope of ever acquiring it. And if it spawns in Ash Canyon, they're both out of luck.

This is why you can't just add the DLC into Story mode despite the fact that the game is still visually similar. There's a LOT of stuff behind the scenes that needs to be considered besides just the maps themselves

Using that randomly spawning Hunter's Revolver as an example again, can you imagine the game balance impact it could have if it spawned right away for Will in that little bunker near Milton? A hypothetical solution to hard-code them takes us into very dangerous territory because that requires opening all 4 of the existing episodes back up to modify them, in addition to balancing Episode 5...which only has a couple months left in development anyway.

[UpUpAway95]

4 hours ago, ajb1978 said:

It's also worth pointing out that the DLC content isn't all restricted to the Far Territory, and a lot of it is randomized. The Hunter's Revolver for example appears in one of the 9 randomized prepper caches, all of which are in Lower Great Bear. What if that bunker happens to spawn in Bleak Inlet? Boom, now we've got to add Bleak Inlet back to Story Mode, modify Episode 2 to allow the player to leave Mystery Lake and enter the Ravine, and at that point you've just broken Story mode. It also means Astrid has no hope of ever acquiring it. And if it spawns in Ash Canyon, they're both out of luck.

This is why you can't just add the DLC into Story mode despite the fact that the game is still visually similar. There's a LOT of stuff behind the scenes that needs to be considered besides just the maps themselves

Using that randomly spawning Hunter's Revolver as an example again, can you imagine the game balance impact it could have if it spawned right away for Will in that little bunker near Milton? A hypothetical solution to hard-code them takes us into very dangerous territory because that requires opening all 4 of the existing episodes back up to modify them, in addition to balancing Episode 5...which only has a couple months left in development anyway.

It is also worth saying that, because story more progresses through set zones, some of the items might appear in Perseverance Mills and Episode 5 only (without the randomness of their spawns).  In addition, similar to the bear spear, other unique items to Episode 5 might appear that will simply not be available in Survival Mode at all.  So, we might be able to use a travois, find skillets, flour and oil for making pies and stews in Episode 5, but we still won't be able to use or find such items in Episodes 1 - 4 (similar to not being able to craft a satchel in story mode, which you mentioned on another thread).

Edited December 3, 2023 by UpUpAway95

[hozz1235]

On 12/1/2023 at 3:43 PM, JerimiahSettle said:

@hozz1235

Then you would not have the items in either mode that was a dumb question. 

You never indicated if the user had bought the DLC or not.  I've learned not to assume anything so was simply seeking clarification.  Now, who is dumb?

[xanna]

21 minutes ago, hozz1235 said:

You never indicated if the user had bought the DLC or not.  I've learned not to assume anything so was simply seeking clarification.  Now, who is dumb?

Definitely not a bad question, especially because there is a general lack of disctinction between the DLC items and those that are not DLC, just new in survival only since the Wintermute/Survival split. I've learned to always clarify what people mean by 'DLC' because it's not always clear.
 

[UpUpAway95]

40 minutes ago, xanna said:

Definitely not a bad question, especially because there is a general lack of disctinction between the DLC items and those that are not DLC, just new in survival only since the Wintermute/Survival split. I've learned to always clarify what people mean by 'DLC' because it's not always clear.
 

That's very true.  Also, it occurred to me that if DLC items showed up in Episode 5 (as I pondered above), they really wouldn't be exclusive DLC items in that people who had not paid for them by buying the DLC would suddenly have access to them in that Episode, even though they could not access them elsewhere in the game.  This would muddy the waters even more and people who paid for the DLC might feel  a bit "cheated."  However, on the flip side, I suppose it might encourage people who did not buy the DLC to buy it previously.  I'm sure that whatever HL does, Episode 5 will be amazing.