Static Candles For Survival

[Stinky socks]

1 minute ago, Schrodingers Box said:

just sit by the stove or fireplace to read or whatever. 

Well yes, but no. The stove barely lights up place in front of it and the rest of the house stays dark, but a candle in each room can help me navigate easier to my bed or to tally the items I have on the table.

[Schrodingers Box]

4 minutes ago, Stinky socks said:

Well yes, but no. The stove barely lights up place in front of it and the rest of the house stays dark, but a candle in each room can help me navigate easier to my bed or to tally the items I have on the table.

Oh.... you mean like a lantern?

[ManicManiac]

I'm not in favor of the idea of "infinitely burning" candles, or "perpetual" lighting of any kind in Survival Mode.
I think it would really only serve as a player convenience.
I also think it would undermine the need for good time management on the part of the player.

As it stands now, daylight is valuable (because it's essentially free)... so the player has to carefully choose how to manage their time.

Other sources of light are more costly in comparison... therefore if we want to work in the dark, we need to choose whether or not it's critical enough for us to invest the resources to make that precious light.

Hinterland also eventually introduced the "Aurora effects" to the game (temporarily providing power to electrical light sources).  That is to say, we can also have free light at night (albeit for a limited time).  This gives the player an opportunity to craft/repair/read/navigate in the dark.  I think that permanent light sources would nullify this feature...

As for the Lanterns and torches:

• Lantern fuel is very renewable (we just need to go fishing & cook fish).  I find that once I get around to fishing, I never have much need to worry about lantern fuel.
• For torches, if the player already has a fire lit... then a torch only costs a stick.  If the player has a good supply of sticks, they can "chain light" torches to provide light all night if they wanted to.  Torches pulled from a fire last at most 50% as long as a crafted torch (at most 45 in-game minutes), which is good for navigation... but admittedly not for lengthy crafting, repairing, or reading.  However, crafted torches do last for approximately 1.5 hours (in-game time); which is enough to read for an hour, or make repairs/craft as long as that particular action takes less than 1.5 hours.

As for the other light sources:
It becomes important for the player to really think about whether the task they want to do is worth those resources, or if it would just be better to wait until sunup.

My point is... if there were permanent light sources (like infinitely burning candles) in The Long Dark, I think it would undermine all of what I just outlined above.  Darkness is one of the hardships we have to face in The Long Dark.  It's just like the Cold... or Hunger... or Fatigue... or Dehydration (as well as the wildlife and the other health afflictions).  I think that by making darkness a non-issue... it would destroy an aspect of this game that I think adds a lot of valuable gameplay we currently have.

Also... I'm rarely in favor of things I think serve only to make life easier for the player. 

Edited February 9, 2021 by ManicManiac

[Kranium]

Infinite candles lol

[peteloud]

On 2/9/2021 at 12:53 AM, ManicManiac said:

I'm not in favor of the idea of "infinitely burning" candles, or "perpetual" lighting of any kind in Survival Mode.

Has anyone suggested "infinitely burning" candles, or "perpetual" lighting ?

[Stinky socks]

Well, I kinda did😂

[ManicManiac]

12 hours ago, peteloud said:

Has anyone suggested "infinitely burning" candles, or "perpetual" lighting ?

Yes, that's exactly what the original poster was talking about:

On 1/31/2021 at 10:22 PM, StabTheJuiceBox said:

...Players could place them to permanently illuminate an area....

Hence, I was discussing why I'm not in favor of the idea.

Edited February 15, 2021 by ManicManiac

[one_shurbbery]

On 1/31/2021 at 12:52 PM, StabTheJuiceBox said:

I think it would be cool to add candles to survival mode. Players could place them to permanently illuminate an area. The candles could be crafted from animal fat as a new resource. I always like setting up little homey bases around the map and I would enjoy lighting them up

This, but not permanently. One of the most aggravating things is being stuck in a dark building fully rested and having your only option be having nothing to do but waste a few hours and calories doing nothing of use until daylight. Happens to me all the time. I would rather spend that time fixing my gear or reading. Having a guarranted source of light w/o fire would, on non auroras, be useful. Would save on match use too and be a lighter weight option compared to a lantern and fuel. Plus those 3hr emergency candles would not be any stretch of the imagine to find in someone's cabin. My only other counter is that we already have lanterns, and lantern fuel can already be gathered through fishing, making craftable candles kinda unnecessary. 

Edited February 15, 2021 by one_shurbbery

[Stinky socks]

How much fishing do you have to do to make enough lantern fuel to last reasonable amount of time? Lots and lots of fishing.

[ManicManiac]

37 minutes ago, one_shurbbery said:

One of the most aggravating things is being stuck in a dark building fully rested and having your only option be having nothing to do but waste a few hours and calories doing nothing of use until daylight.

But the player does have options... we can use one of our light sources.

If all the player want's is to use it to navigate to get outdoors, it doesn't cost much lantern fuel to do that.  Once outside a player can do all kinds of things outside until dawn (even it's just going to pick up sticks, or to break down branches).

I'd posit that there's really nothing all that pressing that we'd really need to work inside in the dark (sure it might be preferable... but it's not insurmountable).

*Also, if it just comes down to a few hours... a player can also save come calories by alternating passing time and sleeping in one hour increments (for those time when we woke up fully rested just before sunup). 

Darkness is one of the hardships we have to face in The Long Dark.  It's just like the Cold... or Hunger... or Fatigue... or Dehydration (as well as the wildlife and the other health afflictions).  I think that by making darkness a non-issue... it would destroy an aspect of this game that I think adds a lot of valuable gameplay we currently have.

Edited February 15, 2021 by ManicManiac

[ManicManiac]

4 minutes ago, Stinky socks said:

How much fishing do you have to do to make enough lantern fuel to last reasonable amount of time?

I've found that when I added fishing into my rotation for food gathering, I've not had to worry much about lantern fuel.  I usually accumulate much more than I burn by using the lantern.  In my last run I had several liters of lantern fuel just stockpiled (even after more than 500 days).

I think that the lantern fuel we get from fishing is very sustainable.

[Kranium]

Another hardship we face is sprained ankles... which was thankfully nerfed a bit thanks to the addition of crampons.

 

Redundancy is a hallmark of survival. Putting all your eggs in one basket leads to failure.

 

IDK, I'm just looking for a more realistic survival game. This one is the closest I've found, and it gets bonus points for being set in the area in which I live IRL.

 

And all my neighbours & I have candles aplenty. Backups for our backups. It's what us isolated rural folk do. City folk wouldn't understand.

[Mig_zvm]

On 2/15/2021 at 2:31 PM, ManicManiac said:

I think that by making darkness a non-issue... it would destroy an aspect of this game that I think adds a lot of valuable gameplay we currently have.

Interesting.

I do think I know what you are talking about in regards ruining the experience of TLD.  Inevitably everything would come down to a design choice by the artists and engineers and their continued intentions with this game.

The candle idea really hit me when I was playing on Endless Night mode.  The game becomes so dark and depressing that I think if it is ever intended to be played, then absolutely yes it needs some dang candles at least.

To expand futher I would say you would need some serious buffs to fire source and easier wood log availability also.  Also some Tiki torches or a way to hang the torches, I am not kidding.  Then maybe that mode would actually start to become something worth playing.

I do believe the Enless Night mode has some honest potential, but It would take some work.

 

[Mig_zvm]

On 1/31/2021 at 2:00 PM, peteloud said:

I think candles would be a good idea.  It is unnecessarily irritating trying to find my way around an unlit cabin that is in complete darkness.

They do not need to have a complicated role in the game such as having to collect tallow then making candles.  I would be content with just finding a candle or two in very dark places, cabins and in caves/mines where there is a work bench.

 

 

I hear what you are saying and it is better then nothing, but I personally would prefer it if you could place the candle anywhere, but I am fine with it if you can't walk with it lit and if picking it up meant that it went out.

 

Also fine with the idea of different sized candles with different lengths of burn times for each.