Forge on Riken now seems out of place since the updates

[piddy3825]

This seems more like an afterthought and in the grand scheme of things doesn't really matter to the game play, but with the past few updates and especially with adding a forge in the maintenance shed  in the BRR region where it does make sense to have one, it got me to thinking about forges and their locations in general...

Which brings me to my question as to why the forge in DP is on a shipwrecked whaler instead of being on land as part of the fish/whale processing plant?

Considering the locations of the forges, Spence farmhouse and now BRR maintenance yard it would make sense that you find those there.   At the farm, especially considering the remote location and limited accessibility you would expect to find a forge as the inhabitants there would have a need to be able to fabricate parts in lieu of waiting for replacement parts from the mainland if the need arose.  Likewise in a railroad maintenance facility on an island I would most definitely expect to find a forge as replacement parts are probably limited as well and you know their operation couldn't afford to ship in new parts whenever something needed to be fixed.  So they probably relied on that forge to fabricate handmade replacement parts to keep that railroad working right up to the last day.

Which brings me to the forge on the Riken...   How is it that we find the furnace/forge on a whaling boat?  Granted, it could be possible that this is a steam powered vessel and probably burned coal as fuel, as we do find some coal when come aboard and explore the interior.  But in keeping with the times, this whale hunter was most likely a diesel boat as the whaling industry pretty much retired steam and sailing vessels by the 1960's.  With that in mind and drawing on a little practical experience from back in the day working summers up in Ketchikan AK, the cannery had their own machine shop as they were constantly having to fabricate parts to keep the lines running 24 hours a day during the height of the fishing season.  It would've made sense to have a forge or fabrication shop at the processing plant as they would have serviced not only the facility there but also any fishing vessels that would have docked there.

If wishes were fishes, then I wish the forge was moved to Hibernia.  

[DaveMcD]

Well if its not exactly a forge but a ships boiler like you say that happens to make a really neat makeshift forge (i.e. it gets really really hot) then it makes sense to me. I did find an answer on the net that stated coal powered ships stopped being made (in the US at least) in 1953. You do see a bunch of really old ships still around today. Again according to a very quick google search Canada stopped whaling in the 1960's. Is Hybernia meant to have been closed since that time or is its backstory that there was some illegal whaling going on?

 

[piddy3825]

14 hours ago, DaveMcD said:

Well if its not exactly a forge but a ships boiler like you say that happens to make a really neat makeshift forge (i.e. it gets really really hot) then it makes sense to me. I did find an answer on the net that stated coal powered ships stopped being made (in the US at least) in 1953. You do see a bunch of really old ships still around today. Again according to a very quick google search Canada stopped whaling in the 1960's. Is Hybernia meant to have been closed since that time or is its backstory that there was some illegal whaling going on?

 

If it was a steam driven vessel, then I could see the practicality of a makeshift forge.  Interesting point you bring up regarding possible illegal whaling, the only other explanation would be that although the no longer processed whales they at least continued to process fish as we do find fish in the belly of the Riken and we do find fish along the shore line on occasion.  If Hibernia has been closed when Canada stopped whaling, I would expect that it would have been very well picked over and probably collapsed in upon itself over the span of 50-60 years.  Definitely not the case when you find fresh bags of beef jerky and crunch bars, lol.  

[ajb1978]

21 minutes ago, piddy3825 said:

If Hibernia has been closed when Canada stopped whaling, I would expect that it would have been very well picked over and probably collapsed in upon itself over the span of 50-60 years.  Definitely not the case when you find fresh bags of beef jerky and crunch bars, lol.  

And computers with emails still in the memory buffer.

[ManicManiac]

I like for forge on the Riken just fine.  I've never considered whether a forge on a ship would make sense or not... honestly I love the fact that the forge makes the Riken a worth while place to go instead of just a quick loot run.

What stands out more to me since Redux, is that now the forges in Forlorn Muskeg and Broken Rail Road are so close together...

[piddy3825]

1 minute ago, ManicManiac said:

What stands out more to me since Redux, is that now the forges in Forlorn Muskeg and Broken Rail Road are so close together...

I agree, it does seem a little unbalanced considering the close proximity as compared to the other end of the island.  Ok, now they need to put a forge in PV to round it all out. Right??

[piddy3825]

16 minutes ago, ajb1978 said:

And computers with emails still in the memory buffer.

Right???  I didn't even think of that!  

[ManicManiac]

@piddy3825
You know I was actually thinking of Pleasant Valley when I was typing my response  
Though I'm not sure I would want to take the forge away from the Spence place either... hmm, a conundrum. 

But yes, perhaps having a forge at a more distant location from the others would probably be better that having two so close to one another.

Edited May 31, 2019 by ManicManiac

[UpUpAway95]

My thought was that the forge on the Riken was there so that a toolsmith onboard could replenish, fix and maintain harpoons and other heavy-duty tools needed to catch whales so that the Riken could stay out at sea for long periods of time until they caught all they could handle before heading back to the processing plant to unload.

As far as I remember, there were issues with other countries poaching whales in Canadian waters into the 1980s.

Edited May 31, 2019 by UpUpAway95

[ajb1978]

3 minutes ago, UpUpAway95 said:

As far as I remember, there were issues with other countries poaching whales in Canadian waters into the 1980s.

Not gonna bother fact checking it because it'd be unfalsifiable anyway--we can't rule out whale poachers in an old beaten up steam ship.  You get some earthquakes rocking Great Bear, which create some wicked nasty waves, causing the Riken to be pulled inland and beached on a crag.  It could happen.

That said, it does seem to be a glaring plot hole that official Canadian whaling ended in the 60's, and yet well into the at least 90's the plant was operational.  With 90's-modern computers.  And still having whale bones all over the place.  You'd think either the entire facility would be decommissioned, which would explain the whale bones.  Or the facility would be repurposed, in which case someone would clean out the old bones and bring modern equipment in.  The fact that we have semi-modern computers PLUS whale bones ....  My money is on plot hole.

[UpUpAway95]

Just now, ajb1978 said:

Not gonna bother fact checking it because it'd be unfalsifiable anyway--we can't rule out whale poachers in an old beaten up steam ship.  You get some earthquakes rocking Great Bear, which create some wicked nasty waves, causing the Riken to be pulled inland and beached on a crag.  It could happen.

That said, it does seem to be a glaring plot hole that official Canadian whaling ended in the 60's, and yet well into the at least 90's the plant was operational.  With 90's-modern computers.  And still having whale bones all over the place.  You'd think either the entire facility would be decommissioned, which would explain the whale bones.  Or the facility would be repurposed, in which case someone would clean out the old bones and bring modern equipment in.  The fact that we have semi-modern computers PLUS whale bones ....  My money is on plot hole.

While I don't like citing Wikipedia, this is from History of Whaling:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_whaling

"Proposals for 10-year moratoria were rejected in 1971, 1972 and 1974, but species quotas were adopted and reduced. Consumer boycotts of Japanese and Russian products began in 1974, because they were the most active hunters of large whales. In 1978, the IWC called for an end to international trade in whale products. In 1982, the IWC adopted a ban on commercial whaling, to start in 1986. Japan, Norway and the USSR filed objections so the moratorium would not apply to them. Chile and Peru did too, but Peru later agreed to be covered, and Chile stopped whaling.^[71]

No international quotas were ever put on beluga whales and narwhals; 1,000 to 2,000 of each have been killed each year to the present, mostly in Alaska, Canada and Greenland.^"

^{Riken is a Norwegian name.  In addition, Aborginal whaling is still allowed, AFAIK.}

[ajb1978]

I'm getting conflicting information.  Some reports are saying whaling stopped in the 60's, others say it continues to this day.  I don't really want to make a full research project over it so I'm just going to concede the point with this: It's a video game.  Sure.  Whaling exists. lol

[UpUpAway95]

4 minutes ago, ajb1978 said:

Well that forced my hand.  According to that same wiki article:

In the twentieth century there was a commercial whaling industry, small by global standards, in British Columbia and southeast Alaska, as evidenced by place names such as Blubber Bay. When Coal Harbourclosed its whaling station in the late 1960s, the industrial killing of whales in Pacific Canada was over. By that point, marine entrepreneurs had moved on to hunting orcas (killer whales) for live capture, to be displayed in aquaria. That lasted about a decade, till public pressure put an end to it in the mid 1970s.

So it does appear to corroborate the cessation of whaling in Canada in the 60's.

You mean cessation of industrial whaling by Canada.  The portion I cited clearly states that whaling still occurs in Canadian waters to the tune of 1,000 beluga and 2,000 narwhales each year.

Edited June 1, 2019 by UpUpAway95

[ThePancakeLady]

1 minute ago, UpUpAway95 said:

You mean cessation of industrial whaling by Canada.  The portion I cited clearly states that whaling still occurs in Canadian waters to the tune of 1,000 beluga and 2,000 narwhales each year.

And First Nations people's have a clearance to continue whaling within limits, as whale meat and blubber has been a big thing in their diets and culture for centuries. And a government ban on *something or another* has never really stopped humans from continuing to do it, as long as they can get away with it, and it remains profitable. 

[UpUpAway95]

23 minutes ago, ThePancakeLady said:

And First Nations people's have a clearance to continue whaling within limits, as whale meat and blubber has been a big thing in their diets and culture for centuries. And a government ban on *something or another* has never really stopped humans from continuing to do it, as long as they can get away with it, and it remains profitable. 

That's why I mentioned Aboriginal whaling still being allowed in my previous post.  I believe it is a Constitutional right for the Inuit in Canada, but it's not industrial in nature.  It's a complex issue for sure.

[piddy3825]

44 minutes ago, UpUpAway95 said:

My thought was that the forge on the Riken was there so that a toolsmith onboard could replenish, fix and maintain harpoons and other heavy-duty tools needed to catch whales so that the Riken could stay out at sea for long periods of time until they caught all they could handle before heading back to the processing plant to unload.

As far as I remember, there were issues with other countries poaching whales in Canadian waters into the 1980s.

I like the idea of a toolsmith on board as that could be plausible especially if the boat is indeed a steam driven vessel.  You'd need copious amounts of coal in the holds below to keep the furnace fired in order to produce enough steam to power that size of ship,  However, I do believe that the boats with the harpoon cannons were primarily hunter boats that typically worked in conjunction with two or more to other hunter boats and the processing/storage vessel. They would be carrying many harpoons and if one broke they would probably just replace it.  Makes for an interesting subplot at the vary least.

[UpUpAway95]

8 minutes ago, piddy3825 said:

I like the idea of a toolsmith on board as that could be plausible especially if the boat is indeed a steam driven vessel.  You'd need copious amounts of coal in the holds below to keep the furnace fired in order to produce enough steam to power that size of ship,  However, I do believe that the boats with the harpoon cannons were primarily hunter boats that typically worked in conjunction with two or more to other hunter boats and the processing/storage vessel. They would be carrying many harpoons and if one broke they would probably just replace it.  Makes for an interesting subplot at the vary least.

The thing is, I don't think the Riken has a stack.  Wouldn't it need one to have been a steam driven ship?

Looking at screenshots in google (I'm not near my game right now) - Maybe it does have a stack after all.

Edited June 1, 2019 by UpUpAway95
further info

[piddy3825]

2 hours ago, UpUpAway95 said:

The thing is, I don't think the Riken has a stack.  Wouldn't it need one to have been a steam driven ship?

Looking at screenshots in google (I'm not near my game right now) - Maybe it does have a stack after all.

Just so happens that I have a saved game in DP... popped in there real quick and grabbed this screenshot...  it's pretty obvious this is a diesel boat which just so happens to have a furnace and a forge.  I guess they were doing lots of repairs on this old rust bucket!

yeah, without that forge, the Riken would just be another loot and scoot location.