Mountaineering: skill, books, tools and a new feat

[EternityTide]

From my own experiences, and reading the experiences of others on the forum, rope climbing is an issue, to the extent that a single ascent needs to be planned out well in advance, with coffee and emergency stims being vital components in your pack in the eventuality that something goes wrong.

I suggest that a mountaineering skill be added, alongside fire starting, fishing and the like. As you progress, stamina drain gets reduced, climbing speed increases, and at the highest level, pack weight effect on your fatigue when climbing is halved. Additionally, I suggest a skill book (something like Edmund Hillary's "High Adventure" or some mountaineering manual) that increases the skill level with research, as well as the addition of three new tools:

• an ice axe, which enables players to climb steep areas with lower fatigue effects and reduced chance of sprains, as well as an emergency belay if the player tires and falls off a rope, reducing potential damage by 50%

• ascenders (commonly known as Jumars, after the name of a popular make), mechanical devices that allow the rope to pass one way, but lock onto the rope if pulled downwards, allows faster ascents with less stamina and fatigue drain. Are repaired using quality tools and scrap metal.

• Crampons, an array of metal spikes that are strapped onto your soles, and increase grip, especially on icy surfaces. Reduces chance of sprains, increases speed of ascent and increases speed of walking up steep slopes. Potentially could be used as a weapon against wolves in a wolf struggle (kicking)

Finally, I would like include a feat, named "Mountain conquerer" that permanently reduces your stamina consumption when climbing ropes by 50%. Requires you to climb up/down 10km of rope.

[Wastelander]

I was gonna write a long answer to this until I realized I could sum it up with a few words: Yep, good ideas! 

[romerabr]

Agree with Wastelander.

 

[Dirmagnos]

Ice axe would be pointless. Any surface angle that player can climb do not need it and any surface that it could benefit from is untraversable. And reducing fall damage by 50% is completely absurd. Player climbs rope, with both hands, with what exactly he will use that ice axe or why ? And in case of falling it would rather be 50% chance of instant death, as player falls and get impaled by own ice axe, penetrating vital organ. Unless we get ability of climbing cliffs without rope, or traverse steep curves, this item would be completely useless aside of fighting off wolves.

Not quite sure how player is supposed to repair ascenders with junk metal, since they are supposed to withstand a lot of strain and anything that player can whip on a work bench most likely will snap(or bend) under pressure.

Rest seems nice.

[EternityTide]

@Dirmagnos you really are a ray of sunshine, aren't you?

As for using an ice axe as an emergency belay: Self arrest in snow

[Gaboris]

Skills for climbing, ascenders and the boot spikes are ALL sweet! I hope this does get added when they expand the skill system after they're done with testing, but @Dirmagnos has a point with with the Ice axes. They would be useful, but not in rope climbing. I can't really imagine how they'd be used in a vertical situation like that, but maybe for a short limb or just a somewhat steep(not 90°) rock wall I'd love the addition, but seeing how we can't get jumping implemented because "the whole map would need to be rebuilt for that" I'm afraid it would be strictly limited to preset locations... But I'd even love to see that.

The game could actually have some "Metroidvenia" moments where we'd have to return to special locations for sweet loot or just have nice shortcuts after we get the right tools.

[EternityTide]

The ice axe is mainly an excuse for another tool to open cans, kill wolves and open ice fishing holes far more efficiently than hunting knives or hatchets.

[Dirmagnos]

On 9/12/2016 at 6:38 PM, EternityTide said:

@Dirmagnos you really are a ray of sunshine, aren't you?

As for using an ice axe as an emergency belay: Self arrest in snow

Self-arrest in SNOW. When we climb ropes we climb nearly vertical stone surfaces. And, as i have mentioned, we cant climb slopes steep enough for ice axe to be useful. If devs would add snow axe and when its present allowing ability to climb steeper surfaces, but with heightened hazard of falling(and various associated injuries), then it would be interesting.

Plus condition of snow plays major role. Unless were dealing with firm snow, axe will just plow right thru it, since snow is not solid enough. Its amazing how ppl seem to be consider snow being both of low and high density, since if player needs to use snowshoes it means that snow is not dense enough to hold persons weight, yet at the same time you consider it to be extremely solidified and allow snow axe to get stuck in it. Its either-or situation, you cant have it both ways.

2 hours ago, EternityTide said:

The ice axe is mainly an excuse for another tool to open cans, kill wolves and open ice fishing holes far more efficiently than hunting knives or hatchets.

I dont know about "far more efficiently", but yeah, it could be a viable alternative, more or less effective in certain situations compared to other tools.

[EternityTide]

22 minutes ago, Dirmagnos said:

I dont know about "far more efficiently", but yeah, it could be a viable alternative, more or less effective in certain situations compared to other tools.

Let's compare it against the other tools in our arsenal:

• hunting knife: sharp blade, designed for cutting through flesh, hide and sinew. Not ideal, blade is too light to give it heft, plus repeated use will blunt its edge pretty quickly

• hatchet: wide, angled blade, spreads impact across its length. Has plenty of heft, but its blade is poorly optimised for cutting through brittle materials, as too much force is dispersed along the edge of the blade, acts more like a hammer

• prybar: has the weight and the edge to chisel through ice, but its shape is optimised for levering. I've never used one on ice, as ice never gets that thick in the UK, but comparing its ability to chip through concrete with that of a pick axe, the swing of the axe makes it far easy to put that heft to use, so it's a poor tool for breaking through ice safely

• heavy hammer: never used one of these to open an ice hole in game, but it's completely impractical. The blunt head of the hammer distributes the force over an area, reducing its effectiveness. It pulverises ice, rather than chips through it. Unless the ice hole is significantly thinner than the surrounding ice, you stand a high risk of shattering the ice you're standing on

Compare that with an ice axe which has a purpose built, hardened steel tip to chisel with, perfect heft and a handle which provides sufficient leverage. For crying out loud, the damned thing is SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED to cut through ice. Next you'll be doubting that a woodsaw is more efficient at cutting wood than a bread knife.

[Dirmagnos]

15 hours ago, EternityTide said:

Compare that with an ice axe which has a purpose built, hardened steel tip to chisel with, perfect heft and a handle which provides sufficient leverage. For crying out loud, the damned thing is SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED to cut through ice. Next you'll be doubting that a woodsaw is more efficient at cutting wood than a bread knife.

You mentioned 3 activities - opening cans, killing wolves and opening ice fishing holes. Both hatchet and knife would be more efficient for the first and second one, with snow axe only winning on third part. But yeah, sure, just ignore those parts that you dont like and build your argument only on those that you do, youl make a fine politician one day.

[EternityTide]

I apologise if my wording made it sound as if I was saying that all three of those actions could be done more efficiently by an ice axe, but the "far more efficiently" was meant for the opening of ice holes, not the other two activities.

Keep up the insults, they make you out to be a wonderful, tolerant and friendly individual.

[Wastelander]

Let's keep it civil here, can we? Pretty please? 

As for the actual topic: We have half a dozen ways of making a fire, so an ice axe wouldn't be useless or anything. Also, it's presence would make sense at least in my book. I understand that some want other stuff to see in the game before this, and I do agree that there are some more pressing issues which are discussed in other threads, but I still think an ice axe would be a nice addition nonetheless.

[Dirmagnos]

On 9/14/2016 at 5:59 PM, EternityTide said:

Keep up the insults, they make you out to be a wonderful, tolerant and friendly individual.

Already are first, second means nothing nowadays and dont really care about third.

On 9/14/2016 at 6:11 PM, Wastelander said:

Let's keep it civil here, can we? Pretty please? 

Ohh well, just because you asked.... 8)

[MarrowStone]

Ok, i agree we need a mountaineering skill with books and the feet would be great. But 10km of rope is a LOT of climbing, Poor Will's arms n legs x'D.

We can discuss the tools in another topic, im only concerned right now of the feat and skill getting to the devs so they can implement it! Things like feats and skills would be quick and easy to add now that they have a system for it.