How far will you go to survive? In this build of the game...

[Fuarian]

That was the big deal back in the day. That food and supplies would be scarce and you would have to make decisions as to how to deal with it.

 

But that really seems to have faded over time.

 

If I'm low on food, (which I never ever am) I would just starve myself. Low on water? Just make a fire using tons of sticks and melt some snow. I usually have tons of wood.

Medical supplies low? NOPE! Because there too much!

 

I never have to ask that question anymore because the game is TOO EASY! TOO MANY EXPLOITS!

 

Items need to be really scarce. I never get the feeling of desperation anymore because I'm always stocked on items. Usually I'm cooped up in my cabin hibernating still even after the update because it's tolerable. 

 

A simple way to combat all this is...

NPC's. They will make the game way more difficult (in a good way). Not in a combat way but in a way that there would be way less supplies and items. You catch?

 

Opinions?

[Patrick Carlson]

On 6/1/2016 at 5:46 PM, Fuarian said:

 

 

A simple way to combat all this is...

NPC's. They will make the game way more difficult (in a good way). Not in a combat way but in a way that there would be way less supplies and items. You catch?

 

Opinions?

If you could point to one key difference an NPC would make to the game to add the dimension you are hinting at, what would it be, in your mind? 

[cowboymrh]

I guess I have to disagree a little!! The other day, I almost killed my 550 day plus voyager character. Like you, I had everything I need! Maximum clothing bonus, tons of food, plenty of water, but one thing I didn't have was a whetstone.

I was staying on Timberwolf Mountain and the only thing I didn't have was a way to sharpen my knife and Ax. So I thought "cool....this will give me the opportunity for a little expedition to round up a couple of whetstones".

I hiked down to Pleasant Valley and stayed in the bunker at the foot of the rope for the night. I even slept in a little bit and crafted some items so it would be late morning (and warmer) when I traveled to the Pleasant Valley Homestead. When I left the bunker mid-morning, it was cold and the wind was blowing pretty good, but I thought "no problem".

I took a little time to meander around and explore the ruined buildings at Skeeter's Ridge. It was then mid afternoon but I thought, it's only an hour or so to the homestead so I continued on. Pretty soon the wind turned into a full fledged whiteout! I was able to find the cave that is southwest of Skeeter's Ridge and decided to gather a little firewood and hunker down there for the night.

The next morning, it was still a raging whiteout outside!! But because I had taken this route so often, I decided to head for the homestead anyway. It was so cold that I started losing warmth at the rate of 3 arrows. Within a short time, my condition started to drop from 100%. I still wasn't worried but was having a very hard navigating in the storm.

As I got colder, and kept losing condition, and still with almost 0 visibility, I kept heading forward. I was walking right into a headwind that made my progress slow to a crawl!

When I looked down and saw my condition at 65%, I thought about taking the easy way out and pressing the "escape key". But I thought.... "just a little bit farther". Then....Hypothermia!!!  And I saw the "Save Icon" swirl and knew there was no escaping now!!

Somehow, I had taken a wrong turn and was in the woods with no landmarks to see because of the storm. I figured I was probably south of the homestead, but not 100% sure.

I started picking up wood as I traveled in case I found a place to make a fire. My condition was down to 40% now!!

I finally found a ruined farm shed and was able to find enough wood for 3 hours worth of fire. So I made the fire and at least was able to warm up. When the fire burned out, the storm was still raging but starting to let up.

I left the shelter because I knew if I stayed there I would freeze. I wondered around and eventually came to a river. I was freezing again and knew I was in real trouble!

I walked to a rise on the other side of the river and the storm had let up enough to barely make out the homestead in the distance!! My condition was now at 32%.

Then I saw them.... 4 wolves between me and the farmhouse. I knew if I was attacked in my condition it was all over!! My 550 day run would be done!

The closest wolf saw me and started to charge! I fired a flare in front of him! He turned and ran. I armed my rifle and tried to skirt around the next wolf and he saw me.

I didn't waste any time and fired a shot immediately! To my relief, he immediately turned and ran. Making a large counter clockwise semi-circle, I finally got to the screen door of the farmhouse with 26% Condition!!

Needless to say, I ate a good meal, drank a couple cups of herbal tea, and had a good nights sleep that night!!

[hauteecolerider]

@cowboymrh That's quite the story! And proof that the game still needs to be reckoned with.

Don't lose your respect for this game . . . it's like Mother Nature, it'll bite ya in the tush.

[Drifter Man]

Great story @cowboymrh. It is when I underestimate the game when I get in trouble. Every now and then I have to tell myself - wait for tomorrow, you are too tired; wait for better weather, this could turn into a blizzard soon; give that wolf a little more space etc.

@Fuarian does have a point, though. I've drawn all resources from about 60% of the world and have enough now to survive for 4000+ days without taking absolutely any risks. Meaning that someone who puts in 1/10th of the effort will still have enough for a pretty good run. The problem is how to balance early vs late game. For example, there are enough knives and hatchets lying around so that you have a chance to find them in the first days and survive. At the same time, this means there are too many hatchets and knives when you keep looking for them, and the later days become too easy. I don't see any easy solution to this.

EDIT: the note on medical supplies is spot on. I don't remember ever being worried of not having enough pills, antiseptic or bandages. Medicinal plants are piling up in my stores and I wonder if I'll ever need them.

[FrozenFoot]

Not to be contrary, but if you are both on Stalker difficulty?  I found the step up from Voyageur to Stalker pretty substantial at times. 

[Drifter Man]

5 hours ago, FrozenFoot said:

Not to be contrary, but if you are both on Stalker difficulty?  I found the step up from Voyageur to Stalker pretty substantial at times. 

Actually no, I'm on Voyageur. And while @Scyzara's report on her stalker world looting frenzy gives me an impression that the difference between Voyageur and Stalker is not too dramatic in terms of the amount of available resources, you are right that the rate at which those resources are utilized can be very different.

 

[Pillock]

On 6/8/2016 at 1:41 AM, cowboymrh said:

I hiked down to Pleasant Valley...

It's always Pleasant Valley! Those blizzards come out of nowhere and can last days.

The combination of complacency and the urge to explore the boonies on the Other Side Of The River have effected the demise of many a long-lived character of mine.

But there are too many resources, even on Stalker - I don't believe, for example, that it should be the case that you can can rely on finding at least one rifle, hatchet and knife in every region. A general reduction in the total amount of tools and equipment wouldn't go amiss, along with a bit more randomisation across the maps - so that sometimes you'd find a few in the same area, but sometimes none, adding a bit of uncertainty, tension and variety.

[cekivi]

Again, I don't think it's the amount of resources per se that are the problem but the type of resources. Let there be lots of food (it decays)! And cloth (why not?)! And mediocre clothing (gives a use for all that cloth)! What I want to know is why the survivors of the aurora left so many rifles, hatchets, and knives behind? Seems odd that if you're setting out you'll loot your home, leave nothing in the cupboards but forget to bring a hatchet...

[Nervous Pete]

 

I can see the issue, though I'm a Voyageur player and not quite skilled enough yet to feel the game is anything like a breeze. The problem seems to lie in how there needs to be items that can be found to give a real drive to exploration, especially for new players, and to keep exploring interesting. The downside comes when you have too much, and get too comfortable. Making the axes etc. wear out even faster isn't a solution, as that utterly breaks immersion.

My initial vaguely thought out solution would be to be able to find items that enable you to do life-saving things, only very badly. These items wouldn't be designed for survival, such as proper hatchets, etc, but would be makeshift items that can at a pinch do the same thing, but that break quite quickly as they're not intended for purpose. I'm not certain what these would be, though, and there'd be the danger of it backfiring by building frustration. Perhaps some items could be discount store branded budget versions that are obvious wretched rip-offs, that you just know are going to fail you, but can keep you alive that little bit longer.

So another possible solution would be to make items a little rarer by not necessarily being in every region, but leaving generated vague clues as to their whereabouts in the form of other survivor diaries, memos, letters, etc on dead bodies or abandoned cars and buildings. "Hiked all the way down here from the abandoned mine, can't believe I left my axe in the backwoods of Coastal Highway..." Thus adding hope to new players but making the journey difficult to replace resources. But that wouldn't solve the problem for seasoned players who'd quickly grasp where stuff is.

So I think the best way to go about it is to add further incentive to explore the outdoors and risk life and limb. This shouldn't be through further negative reinforcement such as more extreme versions of cabin fever, but challenges inside of sandbox mode and the presence of further lore items that will be of such immersive quality that you've just got to try and find them all, even if they don't add any bonuses to your character or skills. These can take the form of...

Interior decorations and neat items that can be brought back home. 

Fiction books - read Jack London, in game! Be destroyed by heartbreaking wolf-empathy ruining your attempts to defend yourself from growly menaces!

Survivor stories on bodies.

And discovery challenges that can be picked up through clues contained within diaries or directly through NPC interactions. Perhaps a woman comes to your door, and begs you to find her lost child. Chances are she's dead of course, but time being a factor you've got to move fast if you have any hope of finding her alive. Of course you could slam the door in her face, but then she'd wail and sob outside and drive friend-gamer to either try to drive her off or to go grab some bottles of water, medicines and a sleeping bag and head out into the dark, cussing all the while. Then you get back and find she's eaten all your steak, or something. Or find the girl in the red coat and find out she's not a girl but a little ugly woman with a knife and oh God you're Donald Sutherland and blood blood oh no I don't like this game any more...

Or perhaps you'd try to find the body of old Whiskey Pete, mentioned in the red headed girl's diaries, and give him a proper burial. 

Finally I think an added burden could be presented through greater risk of illness and injury that doesn't force you to lay up, but that severely diminishes your ability to use tools for a period of time, such as axes etc, owing to weakness. That could start an interesting and more refined downward spiral, which if you aren't prepared for could be your end. 

 

[Drifter Man]

15 minutes ago, Nervous Pete said:

Finally I think an added burden could be presented through greater risk of illness and injury that doesn't force you to lay up, but that severely diminishes your ability to use tools for a period of time, such as axes etc, owing to weakness. That could start an interesting and more refined downward spiral, which if you aren't prepared for could be your end. 

I really like this idea. For example, I would like ankle and wrist sprains to occur only rarely but to have more serious consequences. They could take weeks to heal completely, and in the meantime, activities such as running, carcass harvesting, even cooking would be done more slowly. In addition, these activities could prolong the healing process even more, so that the player would have an incentive to rest as much as possible.

Similarly, if the character has suffered blood loss, infection or food poisoning recently, even though he is healed and in no immediate risk of life, he would be weaker and slower for some time. Same for prolonged starvation.

I can even imagine permanent consequences of events like a broken limb, repeated sprains etc. More generally, the way the character keeps himself in shape would affect his performance down the road. Since new characters don't have any prior afflictions, game would be easier for them. Until they break something