Too Much Loot?

[selfless]

Started a Stalker game the other day in Mystery Lake.  Took my time there to search it all and gather all the good I could to try and see what has changed with loot spawns and the 0.332 update.  Then loaded up all the meds, rifle rounds, arrows and shafts, lamps and kerosene and went up to Timberwolf Mountain for the flare gun, gathering from what I passed on the way.

Now I'm heading down to Desolation Point here on day 30, but my pack is straining under the weight of: 

34 Antibiotics, 10 Stims, 48 Painkillers,

6 Firestrikers,

33 Arrow Shafts, 14 Arrows,

97 Rifle Rounds,

7 Flare Rounds,

11 Liters of Kerosene,

and 10 Whetstones.  

Have left 6 rifles on the trail behind me because I don't want that extra 4kg slowing the journey. Just carry a bow for now as I know there will be a rifle to find at Desolation Point.

How much more could there be in the easier difficulties?  How much is less could one actually still survive with?  5 Rifle Rounds per map?  10 maybe?

 

Other numbers for those who like to analyze play: 62km travelled, 680 hours indoors vs. 96 hours out, 1922 Cal/day, 43% explored.  Survived Food Poisoning + Cabin Fever and 17 Blizzards.

[cekivi]

Huh. I haven't tested as extensively (I leave most items behind now) but it does seem that things are starting to skew towards overabundance on the higher difficulties. I wonder if that's a consequence of making everything begin decaying as soon as the game starts? Including more items would then make sense to ensure that there's at least one of everything per map.

[starfighter441]

Can I have some of this over abundance?  I'm starving in Mystery Lake on a Voyager play through, 9 rounds ammo left, and am trying to reach trappers cabin without running into another bloody wolf...  Just ate my last tomato soup.

[Pillock]

I think certain items are a bit generous; others are ok.

I'm about 3 weeks into my first ever Stalker game*  and I've yet to leave Mystery Lake. Found two rifles and about 20 rounds (which I think is too much, really); a working bow and and an arrow, plus 3 more arrowheads; maybe 4-5l of kerosene if you include what was in the lanterns; Parka coat (absolute gold!); couple of hatchets, 3 prybars, 2 (or 3?) knives, 3 whetstones; 2 Stims and a lot of anti-septic and antibiotics - I've used up all the painkillers, though; enough packaged food that I've only just had to start killing deer (2 so far), while eating fish occasionally and never catching any rabbits at all.

That's more than I was expecting, I think - more than I probably needed, anyway. I haven't done any crafting to speak of. I have now exhausted the map, though, and would have to really knuckle down and start using the environment if I were to stay... but I'm not going to! I'm ready to move on, and more free stuff awaits in neighbouring lands!

Given that Stalker is the ultimate challenge the game offers, I think perhaps that is too much loot? I'm certainly not experienced enough to say definitively, though.

 

* Well, second technically, but the first one only lasted 8 hours and I never even figured out which map I was on before dying of blizzard - the hike in fuel requirements for effective campfire-warmth in Stalker is a bit of a shock to the Voyageur's system if you're not expecting it!

[cekivi]

I'm not worried so much about food on Stalker. All that changes is how long it will be until you need to start hunting/fishing/trapping. The things I am concerned with are the number of Emergency Stims (they seem to easy to find - it dilutes their importance), tools (why repair if you can find more) and rifle rounds. Personally, I'd prefer some rebalancing for the amount of tools and Stims with the caveat being that whetstones should degrade much slower. I'd rather have mechanics that encourage treasuring the precious tools that you find as opposed to having a half dozen that you wear out and continually replace.

[Scyzara]

Well, to be honest I'm quite sure the amount of loot hasn't changed much with the last update. Since the introduction of DP (and later TWM), it has always been the case that the amount of (premade) tools, ammunition, medicine etc. was more than sufficient to survive for thousands of days even without the forge.

(Just to give you an idea what I mean: I'm on day 80 of my current Stalker run, have found 6 hatchets + 7 whetstones in TWM alone and I've only used up 2 whetstones in 80 days so far - most of them to bring all hatchets to 100%. I'm absolutely convinced I'm not going to play this game long enough to ever run out of anything for this would take thousands of days if I actually looted all items on all maps.)

All that being said: Yes, I personally would very much welcome a decreased amount of loot in Stalker. And not just a slight decrease, but some really radical decrease like only 10% of the current amount. However, I believe it's very unlikely for my wish to come true.

Some players already struggle with the current amount of loot, a 90% decrease would probably make Stalker completely unplayable for them. And I can understand that it's not in Hinterland's interest to severely limit the accessibility of one of their modes to just a very tiny portion of the playerbase.

So I'm just hoping to get my personal loot amount reduced via modding once the story mode has launched and mods become officially supported.

[Pillock]

39 minutes ago, Scyzara said:

Well, to be honest I'm quite sure the amount of loot hasn't changed much with the last update. Since the introduction of DP (and later TWM), it has always been the case that the amount of (premade) tools, ammunition, medicine etc. was more than sufficient to survive for thousands of days even without the forge.

(Just to give you an idea what I mean: I'm on day 80 of my current Stalker run, have found 6 hatchets + 7 whetstones in TWM alone and I've only used up 2 whetstones in 80 days so far - most of them to bring all hatchets to 100%. I'm absolutely convinced I'm not going to play this game long enough to ever run out of anything for this would take thousands of days if I actually looted all items on all maps.)

All that being said: Yes, I personally would very much welcome a decreased amount of loot in Stalker. And not just a slight decrease, but some really radical decrease like only 10% of the current amount. However, I believe it's very unlikely for my wish to come true.

Some players already struggle with the current amount of loot, a 90% decrease would probably make Stalker completely unplayable for them. And I can understand that it's not in Hinterland's interest to severely limit the accessibility of one of their modes to just a very tiny portion of the playerbase.

So I'm just hoping to get my personal loot amount reduced via modding once the story mode has launched and mods become officially supported.

I imagine loot balance will be one of the major focusses of mods, once they start appearing.

But to reiterate what I said earlier: given that Stalker is the biggest challenge the game offers, I certainly wouldn't complain if there was never more than one hatchet or knife on each map (and maybe even a rng chance that none spawn at all on DP, due to the fact that you can make them yourself). I think there should be fewer rifles than there are maps, and about half the number of rounds there currently are in each one (having a full magazine ought to be rare, I think - I've been burning ammo just to scare wolves away from my route ahead, and not even bothering to follow up on whether or not I'd killed them). Maybe a maximum of one or two pre-existing survival bows across all regions? Stims ought to be like rocking-horse business, and the top-end manufactured clothes likewise.

I don't think a lot of people would complain that Stalker was too hard if it was like that: play Voyageur if it's too hard, or just keep trying again. I don't think it should be taken for granted, as it is now, that every individual map provides everything in one place. The times when I've not been able to find one or other of the 'basic' survival tools - hatchet, knife, weapon - for longer periods have been all the more interesting and fun because of it, since I've had to improvise and play differently than usual. If you don't know what each map is going to provide you with, it adds a lot of replay-ability to repeated Sandbox runs.

[Raf109]

5 hours ago, Scyzara said:

All that being said: Yes, I personally would very much welcome a decreased amount of loot in Stalker.

 

This would work, if a player feels "limited" to resources he can play on the other difficulties. While the more "hardcore" players will seek Stalker mode, or maybe add something beyond the Stalker difficulty. 

[GorillaDust]

Jeez, really? I started a new run on Stalker after the 325 update and looted what I thought was all of Mystery Lake before moving to CH. Including a food cache, I found just one of each of these: firestriker, rifle, magnifying glass, prybar. About 10 rounds, 3 arrow heads, 2 knives/hatchets/whetstones/stims/cleaning kits. Plus a reasonably sparse amount of packaged food (other than the cache which I cheated to find by using an online map). Had I not known ML so well, I would have found half that amount.

I actually felt like the balance was very reasonable (have enough to do what's needed, but not so much that I'm bored or overpowered). I wouldn't want more loot to be added, but certainly wouldn't suggest too much less as that could dissuade newer players who dive into Stalker before they learn the maps.

I've never been to Timberwolf Mountain, but is most of your found loot listed above found in that map? eg. assuming that there is only one firestriker and rifle in ML, there are another five in TM? Or did you find a tools/ammo cache in ML?

As @Scyzara mentions, this may be a job for modders in the future, or some kind of unlockable super-hard mode for players who get past Day 500 on Stalker, for example.

[GorillaDust]

17 hours ago, cekivi said:

Personally, I'd prefer some rebalancing for the amount of tools and Stims with the caveat being that whetstones should degrade much slower. I'd rather have mechanics that encourage treasuring the precious tools that you find as opposed to having a half dozen that you wear out and continually replace.

Yes. +1. 

This is what I'd like too. Make the valuable tools more valuable, and easier to nurture over a long time.

[Dinhammer]

This approach also has the benefit of having fewer tools to schlep to a new zone when migrating.  Four pound axes add up in a hurry.

I do have mixed feelings about significantly reducing the number of tools, though.  In my current Stalker game, I found three axes and only two knives in ML.  Cutting the spawn rate might well mean that only the one mandatory spawn occurs.  I can see where many deaths might occur on startup before that one tool is ever found.

[starfighter441]

23 hours ago, starfighter441 said:

Can I have some of this over abundance?  I'm starving in Mystery Lake on a Voyager play through, 9 rounds ammo left, and am trying to reach trappers cabin without running into another bloody wolf...  Just ate my last tomato soup.

So I made it to the cabin, after dancing with Canis Lupus again, found that I had looted it beforehand ( I have a good memory but it is short...), and being down to 32% with nothing to eat, little to drink and suffering from hypothermia, I faded into the long dark the next morning while trying to harvest some meat from a deer carcase.  Still 14 days was a record for me in Voyager.

[hauteecolerider]

57 minutes ago, starfighter441 said:

So I made it to the cabin, after dancing with Canis Lupus again, found that I had looted it beforehand ( I have a good memory but it is short...), and being down to 32% with nothing to eat, little to drink and suffering from hypothermia, I faded into the long dark the next morning while trying to harvest some meat from a deer carcase.  Still 14 days was a record for me in Voyager.

Congrats! Making progress!

[cekivi]

Always forward!

[starfighter441]

Never seems to be light at the end of the tunnel though, just Fluffy's eyes glowing in the aurora.

 

[cekivi]

That reminds me of a passage from the Stand...

Fares are you best friends though if you want to avoid Fluffy. They usually work and also provide light if you're stuck outside at night. As you play the game more you'll also find areas in Mystery Lake that the wolves generally don't go to. They make a good place to start surviving until you can have enough loot to no longer worry about them.