Finding Another Player's Journal

[djb204]

Consider adding this feature... Finding and searching the frozen dead corpse of another player, and retrieving his journal. For example:

You have survived for a few months, and have been documenting your adventures and encounters in your journal. One day while your out checking your snares, you encounter a bear that ultimately takes your life, or you get lost in a blizzard and freeze to death while attempting to take shelter in a cave. Another player stumbles upon the cave while exploring and finds your frozen dead corpse. They search your corpse and retrieve your journal. They can read your story of survival. This would give your journal some purpose, and encourage players to use it more.

i know there is way too many players in this game, and bodies would be EVERYWHERE on the map. So, This system would have to be designed in a way that makes it believable, and make it work. Maybe if you could only come a cross the corpse of players on your friends list? and maybe they would have to be playing on the same difficulty? Because it would be rediculous to allow everyone to find everyone's corpses. It would have to be limited somehow. I believe this would be a very immersive feature. 

[Pillock]

This is a really, really interesting idea. The game logging where players die and then using those locations to spawn corpses with their journals could make for an original and fun way to bridge the gap between single- and multi-player.

However, it might also cause continuity problems if the journal you find tells you that the player has altered the gameworld in a way that it hasn't been altered in yours. You might also come across a journal full of spoilers or profanity that you didn't particularly want to read!

[djb204]

The two worlds won't conflict. The journal would be the only thing to cross over, regardless of what each player has done in their own worlds. What ever one player documents won't affect the other players world. As for spoilers and profanity, this could be controlled a little bit if we can only find the journals of players on our friends list. 

[FINDarkside]

4 minutes ago, djb204 said:

The two worlds won't conflict. The journal would be the only thing to cross over, regardless of what each player has done in their own worlds. What ever one player documents won't affect the other players world. As for spoilers and profanity, this could be controlled a little bit if we can only find the journals of players on our friends list. 

Pillock means that the journal is still from the other "world" so it doesn't really fit any other world. Currently the way we can alter environment is pretty limited but let's say that someone writes that "Today I broke all furniture from Trapper's Homestead, but when you go there it obviously has all furniture. The furniture could be broken though, that would make journals fit the world, but it would result in unfair game if you're aiming for leaderboards. 

[Pillock]

The worlds wouldn't conflict or be altered in any way, but you said originally that this would be a feature for better immersion. If you read a journal that says the guy ransacked Trappers Homestead, say, and broke up all the furniture for firewood, and then you come across Trappers Homestead and find it all intact and full of gear, that isn't going to help immersion - it's going to damage it, if anything. [EDIT: Woah. Scary when someone posts the exact same words as you at the same time^^]

But if you are willing to ignore that, and the option could be toggled on or off, and it were limited to your Steam Friends as you suggest, and it were made to be quite a rare occurrence, and it wouldn't be too much faff for the devs to make to work properly, then I'd be all for it.

[djb204]

2 minutes ago, FINDarkside said:

Pillock means that the journal is still from the other "world" so it doesn't really fit any other world. Currently the way we can alter environment is pretty limited but let's say that someone writes that "Today I broke all furniture from Trapper's Homestead, but when you go there it obviously has all furniture. The furniture could be broken though, that would make journals fit the world, but it would result in unfair game if you're aiming for leaderboards. 

I understand, but the feature would just be a fun way to connect with other players regardless. I think the pros here far out weigh the cons. So someone says he broke the furniture etc, no big deal. This person could have died years prior, but the cold northern country preserved his body. Another person could have come along and refurnished the place. Imagination can fill in the gaps. Remember... NPCs are being added to the game, so what they are doing or have done can't be determined. I can write in my journal that I saw Sasquatch just to immerse the player who finds my journal. Not everything a player writes in his journal will be the truth, and that alone can explain why things don't match in your world.

[FINDarkside]

1 minute ago, djb204 said:

I understand, but the feature would just be a fun way to connect with other players regardless. I think the pros here far out weigh the cons.

I'm just saying that if you have to use your imagination to fill gaps it means that it reduces immersion instead of increasing it.

[djb204]

5 minutes ago, FINDarkside said:

I'm just saying that if you have to use your imagination to fill gaps it means that it reduces immersion instead of increasing it.

How would you explain arrows found near dead deer? Or unfrozen soda's everywhere? Imagination - Other people were here. This game already makes you use your imagination. Why does the hatch change location every game? It's not a magic hatch, it's a new world. Use your imagination. The same thing with furniture being present in your world. NPCs can do things in the game already like leaving arrows and soda cans behind, but can't move furniture?

[FINDarkside]

10 minutes ago, djb204 said:

How would you explain arrows found near dead deer? Or unfrozen soda's everywhere? Imagination - Other people were here. This game already makes you use your imagination.

Of course, there were people before the disaster, it perfectly fits the story/world.

Quote

Why does the hatch change location every game? It's not a magic hatch, it's a new world. Use your imagination. The same thing with furniture being present in your world. NPCs can do things in the game already like leaving arrows and soda cans behind, but can't move furniture?

If it changed mid-game it would reduce immersion, otherwise it doesn't matter. Your character doesn't "play games", he/she has only one life. And yes, obviously NPC can move stuff, but you need to keep in mind that there are no NPCs, everyone is gone. Currently you are suggesting that after the disaster some survivor broke down a cabin and died, but then someone rebuilt it? If nothing else than the journal would transfer to other games, then I don't really see how it would add any immersion. And I'm talking about the unrealistic situation where the journals would be appropriate, but I bet that if this would get implemented most of the journals would be something no one wants to read. Custom made journals (by Hinterland) might add the immersion though.

[djb204]

21 minutes ago, FINDarkside said:

Of course, there were people before the disaster, it perfectly fits the story/world.

If it changed mid-game it would reduce immersion, otherwise it doesn't matter. And yes, obviously NPC can move stuff, but you need to keep in mind that there are no NPCs, everyone is gone. Currently you are suggesting that after the disaster some survivor broke down a cabin and died, but then someone rebuilt it? If nothing else than the journal would transfer to other games, then I don't really see how it would add any immersion. And I'm talking about the unrealistic situation where the journals would be appropriate, but I bet that if this would get implemented most of the journals would be something no one wants to read. Custom made journals (by Hinterland) might add the immersion though.

Keep in mind that NPCs are on the roadmap plans, and will be added though.

I just though journals would have been a good way to connect players in someway. The journal would have been given more purpose too. Currently they are a waste of valuable time that could be used constructively which is sad. Also when we die, we lose everything including the journal, so what's the point of using it? This idea was intended to make journals important in someway. still... Finding another player's corpse where they died is still a good idea to connect your world with another player's world. Maybe we could simply examine the body and it will say how they died. - bear attack. Froze to death. Fell from cliff, etc. Though there won't be any realistic way to determine these thing so I don't know. If journals won't work, then maybe another route. But the finding of another player's corpse to bridge the gap between players is still a good idea IMO.

[Scyzara]

I don't want to discourage your creativity, but I'm pretty sceptical that there is an easy way how information (e.g. diary entries or locations for corpses) could be transmitted from one player's game to another game given the technical design of TLD.

TLD was always intended to be a singleplayer game and thus saves all game variables solely on your own hard drive afaik. It doesn't work like a multiplayer game where data is constantly exchanged between your own computer and a server. And such an exchange is - at least to my very limited understanding - kind of a prerequisite to make two players share the same game environment. Even if said "environment" is only a corpse with a specific diary lying in a particular area of a map.

Not saying it's impossible to implement such a data exchange system for TLD in general (no idea, really^^), but even if it was possible, it would probably take a whole lot of time and effort for a (relatively) small gain. Remember, only a rather small percentage of players actually writes real stories in their jornal. Most people probably either don't write anything at all or just make some short notes. The chance to get an immersive, well-written diary would thus presumably be rather small.

Anyway, one of the roadmap features was "more ingame collectibles", if I remember correctly. I wouldn't be surprised if this also includes more diary entries similar to the one you can currently find in the mountaineer's cabin in TWM. In my opinion such premade journal entries could add to the game's immersiveness equally well and their creation probably takes much less working hours. 

[Dirmagnos]

16 hours ago, djb204 said:

This person could have died years prior, but the cold northern country preserved his body. Another person could have come along and refurnished the place. Imagination can fill in the gaps. Remember... NPCs are being added to the game, so what they are doing or have done can't be determined. I can write in my journal that I saw Sasquatch just to immerse the player who finds my journal. Not everything a player writes in his journal will be the truth, and that alone can explain why things don't match in your world.

How person could have died years prior if Event just happened ? And another person came along and refurnished the place in exactly same manner as it was be4(or how many of them were there, breaking down and "refurnishing and resupplying") ? How, or even better, why ? Youre getting into some extremely weird area or alternate realities and timelines.

15 hours ago, djb204 said:

How would you explain arrows found near dead deer? Or unfrozen soda's everywhere? Imagination - Other people were here. This game already makes you use your imagination. Why does the hatch change location every game? It's not a magic hatch, it's a new world. Use your imagination. The same thing with furniture being present in your world. NPCs can do things in the game already like leaving arrows and soda cans behind, but can't move furniture?

Arrows, soda, etc mean that world havent been created yday. That other people were here. That is logical, but reading something that is absolute rubbish, thats quite pushing it. Move furniture from where and again, why ? Dragging a table across frozen land full of wolves ?!?! And how exactly would it add to immersion is unclear, its more confusing than anything.

Having some kind of library to read uploaded journals, sure, but adding them in game. Just makes no sense.

[djb204]

7 hours ago, Dirmagnos said:

How person could have died years prior if Event just happened ?

And another person came along and refurnished the place in exactly same manner as it was be4.

The timeframe of the story hasn't been revealed yet. So exactly how many years into the event that this games takes place is still up in the air. How do you know the event just happened?

And who the hell is gonna write in their journal about the precise amount of furniture in their cabin, or the exact square inch it was positioned? The journals wont likely include that, and the only one who would know that is you. Besides, everyone's cabin spawns different things. And it would hurt your immersion only if you let it. The immersion the journals would bring to the table is simply the finding of evidence that other people were here and died here. Rather than finding developer created journals, these player created journals would remain fresh and never get old and alway be different for players who have already seen everything the game has to offer. You want to talk about rubbish? How about taking pills to fix a ankle sprain instantly.

[cekivi]

The event just happened for two reasons:

1. There are still lootable areas

2. The ice fishing huts haven't sunk yet 

That gives a time frame of a few months. The plane crash in Timberwolf Mountain happened September 6th... which is odd since that means the plane was ignored for a few months to allow the lakes to freeze and set up the fishing huts

Regardless, the timeline is anywhere from September 6th to "spring". Even with extreme climate change by July it should be warm enough to be "spring" so that's about ten months max.

[hauteecolerider]

I rather suspect the time frame of the game is late winter.

Why?

Nights are shorter than the days. There is plenty of snow everywhere, so we are after the winter solstice. I'm not sure about BC, but around here, we don't get significant snow until after Dec 21st. 

So I'm thinking January, maybe early February. Spring is sooner than it looks! 

[djb204]

5 hours ago, cekivi said:

The event just happened for two reasons:

1. There are still lootable areas

2. The ice fishing huts haven't sunk yet 

That gives a time frame of a few months. The plane crash in Timberwolf Mountain happened September 6th... which is odd since that means the plane was ignored for a few months to allow the lakes to freeze and set up the fishing huts

Regardless, the timeline is anywhere from September 6th to "spring". Even with extreme climate change by July it should be warm enough to be "spring" so that's about ten months max.

The game takes place in the northern Canadian mountains. It's always frozen.

[hauteecolerider]

Hmm, not necessarily.

Great Bear Island as I understand it is somewhere near Vancouver. The climate there is actually quite mild, due to the ocean currents there. Just because it's further north than Chicago doesn't mean it's frozen all the time. 

British Columbia Climate

[cekivi]

I've actually gone hiking in the BC (Yoho National Park) and Alberta (Jasper National Park) interiors in the mountains. Two things I learned:

1. Rain is sudden and unexpected! Good thing the sun was hot to keep you warm!
2. Mountains are beautiful!

So, yes, even in the hostile frozen wastes of Canada we do have summer. The summits of the mountains may stay snow covered but everything else will melt.

[djb204]

9 hours ago, hauteecolerider said:

Hmm, not necessarily.

Great Bear Island as I understand it is somewhere near Vancouver. The climate there is actually quite mild, due to the ocean currents there. Just because it's further north than Chicago doesn't mean it's frozen all the time. 

British Columbia Climate

The Great Bear region is huge, and does stretch down towards Vancouver, but still quite a distance away. It stretches north all the way to the Alaskan Border, which is also the more mountainous region. The only huge island in Great Bear that is likely to be big enough to require train tracks is right on the door step of Alaska.

[cekivi]

But remember: the whole area is a temperate rain forest. There are still seasons and it's not ice all year round

Even Fairbanks Alaska has flowing water in the summer months and they're a lot further north and away from the influence of the Pacific!

To put it into perspective, my hometown in Ontario and places like Winnipeg are usually a lot colder than anywhere coastal BC because we're so far inland. When you're in the center of a continent things get cold and stay cold (normally) once winter hits. For instance, in Vancouver it can go the entire winter without getting cold enough to snow. My hometown normally has a month of -20C temperatures, same as Winnipeg. So, yes, how far north the region is doesn't matter nearly as much as ocean proximity once you consider that Vancouver is not much farther south than frozen Winnipeg

And to really put this argument to rest (about Canada always being frozen) the territories also thaw out in summer and they're even farther north than Alaska is!

[djb204]

Lol I'm from Winnipeg. lol at frozen Winnipeg 

[Scyzara]

Just as a sidenote: Even most of the Northpole icecap is melting in summer. Unless we're talking about Antarctica, the huge inland glaciers in the center of Greenland or other mountain glaciers here, there is hardly any place on earth that is ever-frozen.

Just as a rule of thumb: If you find non-microscopic plants somewhere, you already know there has to be a growing season. And the bigger the plants (e.g. large trees vs. moss), the longer the vegetation period. 

[Pillock]

We know that The Event has only just happened, because The Event is what brought down your plane? Is that the whole reason you're there in the first place?

[cekivi]

32 minutes ago, Pillock said:

We know that The Event has only just happened, because The Event is what brought down your plane? Is that the whole reason you're there in the first place?

Oops. Kinda forgot about that argument

[cekivi]

14 hours ago, djb204 said:

Lol I'm from Winnipeg. lol at frozen Winnipeg 

Go Jets!