Rate of freezing

[Sly]

I have noticed some issues in the gameplay that inaccurately simulate some aspects.

Here they are:

1. There is no difference in rate of freezing when the character is stationary, walking or running.

What is wrong: all we know, the more intensive exercises some human perform, the more heat its body produces (and of course, more calories burning).

Suggestions: to adjust "freeze-heat" model, so different states - stationary/walking/performing some actions (like harvesting meat)/running alter the freezing level.

It will be more like to reality to have the possibility to warm up a little when you are freezing by performing some run.

Example: character is stationary, heat/freeze modifiers are the air temperature, the wind and clothes; character is walking/harvesting, heat/freeze modifiers are the air temperature, the wind, clothes and walking/harvesting modifier +5 degrees Celsius; character is running, heat/freeze modifiers are the air temperature, the wind, clothes and running modifier +15 degrees Celsius.

+5 and +15 modifiers are close to that IRL as i imagine: 1. it`s 0* C, i`m stationary but clothed up to weather = i`m not freezing; 2. it`s -5*C, if i`m dressed the same like first time - i`ll be freezing while stationary, but will be ok while walking; 3 it`s -15C, if i`m dressed the same way like first time - i`ll be freezing rapidly while stationary, but could be warm if run rather fast (for some time, maybe 10-20 minutes). But i really did not perform the fair experiment, in -20*c indeed.

What are you thoughts about it generally and about the numbers, community?

[selfless]

There is a +1C modifier right now. But it only exists while you are moving. To check temperature, you must open the survival page. And that stops all motion. So,.. yeah... But it is there, you just can never see it.

[Sly]

There is a +1C modifier right now. But it only exists while you are moving. To check temperature, you must open the survival page. And that stops all motion. So,.. yeah... But it is there, you just can never see it.

I tried to find out, are there such modifiers, because they seemed to me very obvious and the game is simulating huge amount of parameters, so i expected them... But it never happened to me to warm up by running even a little. It`s not fair!

[Dirmagnos]

Modifier is a musthave. But it should be progressive, not static. Eg the longer you run, warmer you become.

[akodo1]

I absolutely agree. The type of activity being done should have an impact on how much warmth you create and how many calories you burn...but also impact how soon you become thirsty/tired.

All activities that have a 'time bar' should also either equate to stationary, walking, or running as far as how much heat you generate. Fishing same as stationary. Butchering same as walking, Chopping same as running

[Sly]

I absolutely agree. The type of activity being done should have an impact on how much warmth you create and how many calories you burn...but also impact how soon you become thirsty/tired.

All activities that have a 'time bar' should also either equate to stationary, walking, or running as far as how much heat you generate. Fishing same as stationary. Butchering same as walking, Chopping same as running

Yes, something like that.

[HavocFactory]

If this is implemented, I think it is only fair to have a debuff as well after the activity has stopped, at which point (sweaty and tired) you would perhaps lose warmth more rapidly if still exposed.

As an avid outdoorsman and native of the Colorado Rockies, I also think that this should be baked in anyway, and dealing with your clothes should perhaps be simulated... e.g., if I sweat in my clothes for a day, then wear them all night without drying them, they are not going to keep me as warm the following day. And if I sweat in them for days without cleaning them somehow, forget about seeing a deer under almost any conditions...

I suppose this second point is a new thread...

[Sly]

If this is implemented, I think it is only fair to have a debuff as well after the activity has stopped, at which point (sweaty and tired) you would perhaps lose warmth more rapidly if still exposed.

As an avid outdoorsman and native of the Colorado Rockies, I also think that this should be baked in anyway, and dealing with your clothes should perhaps be simulated... e.g., if I sweat in my clothes for a day, then wear them all night without drying them, they are not going to keep me as warm the following day. And if I sweat in them for days without cleaning them somehow, forget about seeing a deer under almost any conditions...

I suppose this second point is a new thread...

My character almost always is freezing, so no sweating - no debuff. Besides, if one is getting hot in winter, he may loosen his clothes to expel the excessive heat any time he wants.

[Sly]

Modifier is a musthave. But it should be progressive, not static. Eg the longer you run, warmer you become.

Why progressive? You run longer - you get the modifier longer. As for me, it is quite simple.

[HavocFactory]

My character almost always is freezing, so no sweating - no debuff. Besides, if one is getting hot in winter, he may loosen his clothes to expel the excessive heat any time he wants.

RE: "almost always freezing," have you repaired all your clothes? I have, and I can generally walk between almost any two safe houses in Mystery Lake without getting too cold, provided I am not trying to do it at dawn, at dusk, or during a blizzard.

RE: "no sweating" and "he may loosen his clothes to expel excessive heat," it's clear that you haven't spent any time outside in the cold wearing multiple layers and engaged in strenuous activity. You sweat, and your clothing becomes damp (especially under layers), however loose your collar.

[exeexe]

In real life if you generate heat through running this heat will be generated a little longer after u have stopped running

[cekivi]

Interesting concept. Also, thanks for the clarification that there is a +1 degree warming bonus already when sprinting.

While sweating is a real risk when outdoors in winter, I don't think Hinterland can easily simulate it without making a lot of players upset. Because, as a previous poster mentioned, it's not quite as simple as loosening your collar. Try more like doing strenuous work in long johns and T-shirt and still sweating and overheating despite it being -5 outside. Having to constantly put on and take off clothes to prevent sweating/overheating would be a lot of work in the inventory which would detract from the beautiful environments and game space that Hinterland has created.

So, while sweating and wet clothes can kill you outdoors (especially in a survival situation) it would be too difficult to implement with that level of detail. A simple progressive heat bonus (more strenuous work = more warmth) with a temporary chill penalty (modifier that reduces clothing windchill bonus in proportion to strenuous work) is probably the best we can hope for.

[Sly]

HavocFactory said:

Sly said:

My character almost always is freezing, so no sweating - no debuff. Besides, if one is getting hot in winter, he may loosen his clothes to expel the excessive heat any time he wants.

RE: "almost always freezing," have you repaired all your clothes? I have, and I can generally walk between almost any two safe houses in Mystery Lake without getting too cold, provided I am not trying to do it at dawn, at dusk, or during a blizzard.

Yes, I had all my clothes in a good condition 90-100%.

At the start, when I have my starting clothes and was not knowing the map at all i suffered freezing a lot. Of course, later when I get much better clothes and learn safe houses i was far from freezing to death.

Going to explore the map far out of familiar routes and safe houses when the weather is cold freezing emerges as a problem again.

And adjusting activity combining walking and running could help in extreme situations IMO.

HavocFactory said:

RE: "no sweating" and "he may loosen his clothes to expel excessive heat," it's clear that you haven't spent any time outside in the cold wearing multiple layers and engaged in strenuous activity. You sweat, and your clothing becomes damp (especially under layers), however loose your collar.

Of course it is critical not to sweat when it is very cold. So it is wise to adjust you activity. If you are sweating during the activity, even it is very cold outdoors, it just means you are not hypothermic. If you are prehypothermic and you body core temperature is lower then 36,5 C or so (normal is about 37 C), you will not sweat even during the strenuous activity. It is the physiology.

About the clothing and sweating http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=6903

[Sly]

In real life if you generate heat through running this heat will be generated a little longer after u have stopped running

May be not generated, but redistributed, yes. So, it is an elaboration that i missed.

[Renegade30]

I do find it funny that I am wearing extremely warm clothing infront of a raging fire with my temperature being +50 degrees celcius and I don't have to worry about going outside into -20 degrees. Maybe the character is finnish?

[Dirmagnos]

Modifier is a musthave. But it should be progressive, not static. Eg the longer you run, warmer you become.

Why progressive? You run longer - you get the modifier longer. As for me, it is quite simple.

Because clothes act as insulator for person body warmth. When human is moving rapidly, eg running, hes body generates more heat(and generated heat amount also differs depending on activity), resulting in buildup to a certain degree.

As irl, when youre strolling, you only get warmer, but if yorue running then you can easily start sweating as well.

Technically clothes do not warm a person, they merely prevent persons own body heat from escaping, forcing it into semi-closed circulation.

I do find it funny that I am wearing extremely warm clothing infront of a raging fire with my temperature being +50 degrees celcius and I don't have to worry about going outside into -20 degrees. Maybe the character is finnish?

I think its just incomplete feature.

It seem to measure neither temperature of a body nor temperature of the fire. Its literally somewhere in between. I dont know why, since it doesnt really serve any real purpose. It should be either temperature of the fire/stove or temperature of surrounding area(as general temperature inside of the cabin).

[Sly]

Interesting concept. Also, thanks for the clarification that there is a +1 degree warming bonus already when sprinting.

While sweating is a real risk when outdoors in winter, I don't think Hinterland can easily simulate it without making a lot of players upset. Because, as a previous poster mentioned, it's not quite as simple as loosening your collar. Try more like doing strenuous work in long johns and T-shirt and still sweating and overheating despite it being -5 outside. Having to constantly put on and take off clothes to prevent sweating/overheating would be a lot of work in the inventory which would detract from the beautiful environments and game space that Hinterland has created.

So, while sweating and wet clothes can kill you outdoors (especially in a survival situation) it would be too difficult to implement with that level of detail. A simple progressive heat bonus (more strenuous work = more warmth) with a temporary chill penalty (modifier that reduces clothing windchill bonus in proportion to strenuous work) is probably the best we can hope for.

As it is boring to take off and to put on clothes manually, we could agree that character is doing it automatically to prevent sweating. If by progressive heat bonus you mean a different bonus for each activity depending on it intensity I`ll agree with you gladly. But there are just 2 states of activity - walking and strolling/running/sprinting. The carcass harvesting or chopping could be as such as those 2 states. It will be only 2 bonuses. Or 10 or so different (or not such different) bonuses for each activity.

As for temporary chill penalty, i think if could be compensated by the temporary warmth bonus - because one getting warmer for some time after the activity was stopped. So it will be no need for them.

And again i want to bring attention of the respected community to that article about clothing and sweating http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=6903 .

[Sly]

As irl, when youre strolling, you only get warmer, but if yorue running then you can easily start sweating as well.

As there are no different states about strolling, sprinting, running in the game - there are only "walking" and "faster than just walking" - may be combination of strolling, sprinting and running. So should be 2 modifiers - one for each activity.

You will start sweating only when you start to overheating. That is physiology.

Technically clothes do not warm a person, they merely prevent persons own body heat from escaping, forcing it into semi-closed circulation.

That is because the effect of the clothes is presented as a modifier.

[Sly]

On 1/11/2016 at 0:36 AM, cekivi said:

Interesting concept. Also, thanks for the clarification that there is a +1 degree warming bonus already when sprinting.

While sweating is a real risk when outdoors in winter, I don't think Hinterland can easily simulate it without making a lot of players upset. Because, as a previous poster mentioned, it's not quite as simple as loosening your collar. Try more like doing strenuous work in long johns and T-shirt and still sweating and overheating despite it being -5 outside. Having to constantly put on and take off clothes to prevent sweating/overheating would be a lot of work in the inventory which would detract from the beautiful environments and game space that Hinterland has created.

So, while sweating and wet clothes can kill you outdoors (especially in a survival situation) it would be too difficult to implement with that level of detail. A simple progressive heat bonus (more strenuous work = more warmth) with a temporary chill penalty (modifier that reduces clothing windchill bonus in proportion to strenuous work) is probably the best we can hope for.

My point is that you would not sweat at all if you are hypothermic. Not just cold hands but hot back. But if you have the hot back (sweating) - to prevent getting you clothes wet it is crucial to adjust you clothing. It not necessary to be attended by player, I am strongly against it! But character could do something like that in "background mode": http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=6903. 

What do you think?

[Scyzara]

11 hours ago, Sly said:

My point is that you would not sweat at all if you are hypothermic. Not just cold hands but hot back. But if you have the hot back (sweating) - to prevent getting you clothes wet it is crucial to adjust you clothing. It not necessary to be attended by player, I am strongly against it! But character could do something like that in "background mode":

Well, sweating mechanics have already been proposed multiple times in the past. However, I guess clothing wetness is one of the aspects that actually make most sense to be introduced when more seasons are going to be added. Not saying the topic is not relevant in winter (it certainly is, even more than in summer), but I for one believe the devs probably have more urgent matters to care about atm than the development of a body heat management or clothing wetness system.

Especially because there's no real "layer clothing" system in TLD's current versions. You basically just got two layers (long underwear & sweater / pants & coat), that's it. Not sure how feasible it would be to e.g. undress the whole top layer to run or forage wood, even if the caracter did it automatically.

Just as a sidenote: Clothes can already get wet when you break through weak ice, but the whole system is very basic atm. So yeah, there's certainly potential to improve the management of clothing wetness and body heat, but for me personally it's not a topic I consider to be particularly urgent to be adressed.

[Sly]

I just think that it is good to have temperature modifiers of movement to be adjusted. 

As charachter could adjust the clothing (by taking of some layers), there is may be no need in sweating mechanics. 

 

[Sly]

But the wet clothes mechanics it is a nice thing to have. It is cool to watch you clothes to be dry and maybe to have some spare clothes in one of you residencies.