Cougars need to be REDUX-ed (SPOILERS) - Criticism, Feedback

[thekillergreece]

TLDR criticism is bottom. The whole implementation / execution appears to be very weak as if the feature was intentionally half-baked or rushed to be released for part 5 when it could be delayed for part 6 (or even Episode 5 if it's too hard). I've personally made a video about the Cougar.

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Overview of existing Wildlife AI
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Let me also say that I understand the AI of this game is pretty basic but it works for the most part.
Wolves can roam, stalk and pursue you. They howl and bark.
Timberwolves work collectively together as a team and roam and pursue you with two different types of attack; struggle and drive-by. They howl and bark.
Bears are mostly passive predators, roaming in scripted pathpoints to navigate. They can even be found resting at their dens.
Moose have unique spawn logic and are found in limited areas of maps.
Rabbits and Deers spawn on scripted spots and just flee.
Ptarmigans are like rabbits but they can flee in air too. They spawn in most regions.
Cougars? Well...

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Positives - Negatives
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Let's start by saying the positives for Cougar(s).
- The model is very nice.
- The animations for the attack are also nice.
- The running animation is okay.
 

Now... The negatives. There are a lot of them so stay with me. Hopefully HL / Raph takes a note because this new 'wildlife' ISN'T IT.
- It is extremely weak as it dies to only one shot regardless of the body part.
Yes, a shot to its paw can kill it instantly.
- The reward leaves a lot for a desired; only 4kg of meat, a hide (where you craft a Cougar Wrap and some knife) and two guts.
For an 'animal' that deals devastating damage that cannot be prevented due to reasons I'll state below, the rewards are bad.
- The AI does not exist and is extremely scripted.
It is based on a hidden random timer that dictates when it should spawn.
And by spawn, I mean teleport right onto you.
Since the model makes contact of your model, it'll trigger an auto-struggle without any chance to react. Think like a Wolf spawning on top of you, it would do the same thing.
Once the struggle is done, it'll flee. Only then do you get a couple of seconds chance to shoot. Sometimes, it instantly vanishes.
Then you get back, if you survive the struggle.
That's it, you can't hunt down the Cougar, it doesn't even leave paw prints. It literally disappears after blacking out.
You will not be 'attacked' by it at Watchtowers and Lighthouse which is good.
- The cue system is bad.
I expected a cue system a lot akin to Moose with little HUD utilization. I'll explain in the feedback below.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AI Analysis
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Let's touch on its AI a bit more and state some interesting facts.
To be clear, the following facts happen from unscripted moments. This is done by spawning the Cougar via the dev console command, there's no other way. By default, Cougars are scripted and are never seen in the game apart from the forced struggle events.

- Cougars can and WILL attack Wolves, Timberwolves and Moose. This is the only animal that does so which is a HUGE deal.
- It can pursue and attack you, more akin to Wolves on steroids.
- Cougars actually got an attack animation when killing wildlife. However, that animation is the same as the one when it attacks you and is very buggy.
- Cougars will flee from Bears.
- It's not afraid of Aurora and/or fire.
- It's afraid of near impacts such as gunshots, and arrows.

However, all of the above is extremely buggy as you can see in the video.
In scripted moments (by game default), you'll get into struggle even if in spaces a wildlife would never catch you. Yes, that means clipping through terrain, wall, etc.
In unscripted moments (by cheating aka spawning it via dev console), there's some AI in it but it's extremely buggy and half-baked which partly explains why they opted for scripted moments instead.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My theories
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So, the following are my theories which may or may not be true. I'm hoping for Raph to post an official statement about the Cougar's design choice.
Cougars were in the aspirational roadmap (long-scrapped) since 2016 with Moose.
Moose were revealed on Dec 19, 2016. As shown in the video, a model of it was seemingly ready.
It was delayed once (or twice?) and finally released on Dec 8, 2017 under the Rugged Sentinel update. This indicates that the wildlife was in development for more than a year.
Moose turned out to be quite well and very well thought by the developers, probably one of the best post-launch wildlife released.

Cougars remained in the dark since the roadmap was scrapped.
When the DLC was announced, Cougar appeared in the DLC's roadmap but no further wording on how it would work, or which part it would be released until announced by Raph on May 3, 2024.
Part 4 was released on Dec 5, 2023. Part 5 was released on Jun 24, 2024.
It is in my belief that the wildlife was in development only for 6 months.

This may explain why the Cougar is half-baked and utilized only for scripted moments.

My second theory is that Hinterland had ambitious plans for Cougars to behave like an actual Wildlife to encounter but either it grew too ambitious or something went wrong in the last minute that they had to scrap most features and make it appear in scripted moments. Therefore delaying it to Part 6 was not a choice out of fear Part 5 would be deemed having 'too little content'. Since other features were not ready, they put Cougar in.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My feedback
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Some of the feedback is taken from the Reddit. I'm sure HL visits it from time to time but I'll post some of it here too.

When Cougars were announced, I expected;
- See them stalking us from afar. Imagine them looking down at you from the rocks they are lying on and disappearing when you try to aim your firearm at them. That would be quite scary.
- Scratch your safehouse's doors if you reside in a building for too long. That would give you the feeling that the cougar knows where you are and is waiting for you around outside your safehouse. Imagine waking up in a night with "Something woke you up" and then hear scratching from the house's only door.
- Clawed trees, dead animals. This could give you the impression that the Cougar fought and killed a wolf, for example.
- The ability to climb at places you would never expect. Perhaps your safehouse's roof, hut's roof, etc.
- Be an actual wildlife you see in distance but barely hear as it creeps on you and pounces on you for a struggle event.

I'm unsure what else to list since the AI just doesn't exist unless you spawn it. Even then, it's buggy.

TLDR;
Cougars are broken and never seen outside of scripted events. Rework the Cougars entirely from scratch and make it an actual wildlife with actual Cougar behavior.

Edited Wednesday at 05:59 AM by thekillergreece

[Laika Ivanova]

I'm gonna keep it short, since I already explained the bad stuff I've encountered yesterday:

Generally, I am really happy with the Cougar. The way information is given to the player is great. Damage wise it's also good. I am just unhappy with one thing: The fact there is zero way of hitting it prior to a struggle. It's less the lack of ability to kill it prior to one, but the lack of immersion in my eyes. There should be a way to spot it 1-2 seconds before it initiates a struggle, then I'd be completely happy with how it works. 

[Serenity]

I'm not a fan of the game-y "the cougar is coming in X days" UI element. That's useful information to have, but how do you know? It breaks immersion. All the teasers and videos gave the impression that you would get in-world information about its presence before it attacked you. Just coming across cougar footprints would be an easy thing to do. In the release video at 2:20 it shows a dead bunny that's supposed to be a warning sign. I supposed it's difficult to place these things in a way that ensure the player will actually come across them.

[Ghurcb]

Yeah, the fact that you can spawn cougars through developer console shows that Hinterland were trying to make it into an actual creature with AI, but gave up on the idea. Frankly, it would be better if the cougars were delayed but actually fleshed out.

[MattD]

25 minutes ago, Ghurcb said:

Yeah, the fact that you can spawn cougars through developer console shows that Hinterland were trying to make it into an actual creature with AI, but gave up on the idea. Frankly, it would be better if the cougars were delayed but actually fleshed out.

I have to agree with you. In fact, I was expecting the cougar to come in part 6 since the beginning. I personally would have had no problem waiting until part 6 to get the cougar mechanics we were expecting/hoping for. The new region and the other additions in part 5 are great and aside from the cougar mechanics, everyone seems more or less happy with it. Maybe HL will end up reduxing it by part 6 in light of all the feedback. 

[Ghurcb]

12 minutes ago, MattD said:

I have to agree with you. In fact, I was expecting the cougar to come in part 6 since the beginning. I personally would have had no problem waiting until part 6 to get the cougar mechanics we were expecting/hoping for. The new region and the other additions in part 5 are great and aside from the cougar mechanics, everyone seems more or less happy with it. Maybe HL will end up reduxing it by part 6 in light of all the feedback. 

For sure, a new region and Tale would be enough for this part of the paid expansion. Would be similar to part 2. But I guess, if Cougar was moved to Part 6, it would become a bit too large with the trader, safehouse customisation, photographs, and Hunted pt. 3.

[Pencil]

+1, really hoping for a cougar rework. Mainly hoping for ways to see it outside of the struggle, even if you can't hunt it due to it quickly running off, and/or a way to see it a couple of seconds before a struggle. 

I have mixed opinions on the UI cougar warnings. I am happy that I know how much time I have in a region before I need to head out to avoid the cougar (cougar encroachment warning) but then what is the point in listening or keeping a watchful eye of cougar activities? I personally think they should scrap the encroachment warning but keep the red cougar icon at the bottom left once the cougar has arrived. Signs of the cougar should show up in the world before the threat is active though, so that there's a reason to be on the lookout. I don't know exactly what would work best but it could use some changes. 

I do want to add that I love the feature and it's a brilliant idea, but I was hoping for a different execution. 

Edited Tuesday at 02:33 PM by Pencil

[Cr41g]

The UI definitely breaks all immersion...  I too hope the cougar gets reworked to operate the same as all other in game predators... not a fan of the inability to hunt or defend against the autoshredder

[Bearimpaler101]

3 hours ago, thekillergreece said:

TLDR criticism is bottom. The whole implementation / execution appears to be very weak as if the feature was intentionally half-baked or rushed to be released for part 5 when it could be delayed for part 6 (or even Episode 5 if it's too hard). I've personally made a video about the Cougar.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Overview of existing Wildlife AI
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Let me also say that I understand the AI of this game is pretty basic but it works for the most part.
Wolves can roam, stalk and pursue you. They howl and bark.
Timberwolves work collectively together as a team and roam and pursue you with two different types of attack; struggle and drive-by. They howl and bark.
Bears are mostly passive predators, roaming in scripted pathpoints to navigate. They can even be found resting at their dens.
Moose have unique spawn logic and are found in limited areas of maps.
Rabbits and Deers spawn on scripted spots and just flee.
Ptarmigans are like rabbits but they can flee in air too. They spawn in most regions.
Cougars? Well...

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Positives - Negatives
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Let's start by saying the positives for Cougar(s).
- The model is very nice.
- The animations for the attack are also nice.
- The running animation is okay.
 

Now... The negatives. There are a lot of them so stay with me. Hopefully HL / Raph takes a note because this new 'wildlife' ISN'T IT.
- It is extremely weak as it dies to only one shot regardless of the body part.
Yes, a shot to its paw can kill it instantly.
- The reward leaves a lot for a desired; only 4kg of meat, a hide (where you craft a Cougar Wrap and some knife) and two guts.
For an 'animal' that deals devastating damage that cannot be prevented due to reasons I'll state below, the rewards are bad.
- The AI does not exist and is extremely scripted.
It is based on a hidden random timer that dictates when it should spawn.
And by spawn, I mean teleport right onto you.
Since the model makes contact of your model, it'll trigger an auto-struggle without any chance to react. Think like a Wolf spawning on top of you, it would do the same thing.
Once the struggle is done, it'll flee. Only then do you get a couple of seconds chance to shoot. Sometimes, it instantly vanishes.
Then you get back, if you survive the struggle.
That's it, you can't hunt down the Cougar, it doesn't even leave paw prints. It literally disappears after blacking out.
You will not be 'attacked' by it at Watchtowers and Lighthouse which is good.
- The cue system is bad.
I expected a cue system a lot akin to Moose with little HUD utilization. I'll explain in the feedback below.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AI Analysis
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Let's touch on its AI a bit more and state some interesting facts.
To be clear, the following facts happen from unscripted moments. This is done by spawning the Cougar via the dev console command, there's no other way. By default, Cougars are scripted and are never seen in the game apart from the forced struggle events.

- Cougars can and WILL attack Wolves, Timberwolves and Moose. This is the only animal that does so which is a HUGE deal.
- It can pursue and attack you, more akin to Wolves on steroids.
- Cougars actually got an attack animation when killing wildlife. However, that animation is the same as the one when it attacks you and is very buggy.
- Cougars will flee from Bears.
- It's not afraid of Aurora and/or fire.
- It's afraid of near impacts such as gunshots, and arrows.

However, all of the above is extremely buggy as you can see in the video.
In scripted moments (by game default), you'll get into struggle even if in spaces a wildlife would never catch you. Yes, that means clipping through terrain, wall, etc.
In unscripted moments (by cheating aka spawning it via dev console), there's some AI in it but it's extremely buggy and half-baked which partly explains why they opted for scripted moments instead.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My theories
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So, the following are my theories which may or may not be true. I'm hoping for Raph to post an official statement about the Cougar's design choice.
Cougars were in the aspirational roadmap (long-scrapped) since 2016 with Moose.
Moose were revealed on Dec 19, 2016. As shown in the video, a model of it was seemingly ready.
It was delayed once (or twice?) and finally released on Dec 8, 2017 under the Rugged Sentinel update. This indicates that the wildlife was in development for more than a year.
Moose turned out to be quite well and very well thought by the developers, probably one of the best post-launch wildlife released.

Cougars remained in the dark since the roadmap was scrapped.
When the DLC was announced, Cougar appeared in the DLC's roadmap but no further wording on how it would work, or which part it would be released until announced by Raph on May 3, 2024.
Part 4 was released on Dec 5, 2023. Part 5 was released on Jun 24, 2024.
It is in my belief that the wildlife was in development only for 6 months.

This may explain why the Cougar is half-baked and utilized only for scripted moments.

My second theory is that Hinterland had ambitious plans for Cougars to behave like an actual Wildlife to encounter but either it grew too ambitious or something went wrong in the last minute that they had to scrap most features and make it appear in scripted moments. Therefore delaying it to Part 6 was not a choice out of fear Part 5 would be deemed having 'too little content'. Since other features were not ready, they put Cougar in.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My feedback
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Some of the feedback is taken from the Reddit. I'm sure HL visits it from time to time but I'll post some of it here too.

When Cougars were announced, I expected;
- See them stalking us from afar. Imagine them looking down at you from the rocks they are lying on and disappearing when you try to aim your firearm at them. That would be quite scary.
- Scratch your safehouse's doors if you reside in a building for too long. That would give you the feeling that the cougar knows where you are and is waiting for you around outside your safehouse. Imagine waking up in a night with "Something woke you up" and then hear scratching from the house's only door.
- Clawed trees, dead animals. This could give you the impression that the Cougar fought and killed a wolf, for example.
- The ability to climb at places you would never expect. Perhaps your safehouse's roof, hut's roof, etc.
- Be an actual wildlife you see in distance but barely hear as it creeps on you and pounces on you for a struggle event.

I'm unsure what else to list since the AI just doesn't exist unless you spawn it. Even then, it's buggy.

TLDR;
Cougars are broken and never seen outside of scripted events. Rework the Cougars entirely from scratch and make it an actual wildlife with actual Cougar behavior.

I havent encountered one but what I've seen of other people doing it I don't have too many problems. Although them not being effected or even looking different during auroras is dumb. And people are saying they have problems with it being to spontaneous having it just spawn on top of you. And also people disliking the ui I think that them both being in the game kind of breaks immersion but I'm not gonna whine about it. Personally I'm happy hinterland are trying new things. If they just added cougars as beefier wolves I wouldn't like it nearly as much.

[Kranium]

Tried it out on a new run. OP nails it, IMO. I hate this, won't be enabling it on any current runs. It's pretty much Darkwalker with annoying UI intrusions.

 

I'm OK with the reward, though. I'll spawn myself some with the console in my current run, which will otherwise have cougars disabled. 

[conanjaguar]

Reading through all the stuff about the Cougar from both the Dev Diary, the update video, and the Forum, I think I agree... though I haven't experienced it for myself as yet and will probably revise my opinion after I do.

The Cougar could've been so much more. It could be to TLD what the Reaper Leviathan was to Subnautica. Who knows, maybe it still could be... but the general consensus seems to be that it is half-baked. Heck, I'm not much of a programmer but the current implementation seems way too basic.

It definitely doesn't make sense that it's just there - WHAM - on top of you without any chance to react. You could be standing out in the center of Mystery lake with no cover around and WHAM. It might take some work but I would think it's possible to spawn it in a nearby tree or behind some cover, or even behind you while you're not looking. As it is, the animation looks like it just drops onto you from the sky like the wrath of Heaven. If it is to just stay as an animation event, I think it would make more sense to hear a sound and then the player camera turns around just to see the thing leaping through the air.

3 hours ago, Laika Ivanova said:

There should be a way to spot it 1-2 seconds before it initiates a struggle.

This ^^.

1 hour ago, Pencil said:

Mainly hoping for ways to see it outside of the struggle

And this ^^.

[Bearimpaler101]

25 minutes ago, conanjaguar said:

Reading through all the stuff about the Cougar from both the Dev Diary, the update video, and the Forum, I think I agree... though I haven't experienced it for myself as yet and will probably revise my opinion after I do.

The Cougar could've been so much more. It could be to TLD what the Reaper Leviathan was to Subnautica. Who knows, maybe it still could be... but the general consensus seems to be that it is half-baked. Heck, I'm not much of a programmer but the current implementation seems way too basic.

It definitely doesn't make sense that it's just there - WHAM - on top of you without any chance to react. You could be standing out in the center of Mystery lake with no cover around and WHAM. It might take some work but I would think it's possible to spawn it in a nearby tree or behind some cover, or even behind you while you're not looking. As it is, the animation looks like it just drops onto you from the sky like the wrath of Heaven. If it is to just stay as an animation event, I think it would make more sense to hear a sound and then the player camera turns around just to see the thing leaping through the air.

This ^^.

And this ^^.

I feell like though it's not supposed to be something you go hunt randomly because you saw it. It's supposed to be something you prepare for if I'm going to hunt it in my run I'm going to get the ballistic vest first because it's strong and dangerous. If you could just shoot it before it attacks you then there is no fear of it.

[conanjaguar]

5 minutes ago, Bearimpaler101 said:

I feell like though it's not supposed to be something you go hunt randomly because you saw it

Oh, absolutely. It should be a smart, stalking predator that appears in the distance. We already have behavior that makes stalking wolves charge you when you aim at them, it should be fairly easy to make a cougar slink back behind cover when you aim at it.

7 minutes ago, Bearimpaler101 said:

If you could just shoot it before it attacks you then there is no fear of it.

Well, yes and no. It would play further into the paranoia that the cougar already brings. Just imagine walking around with a revolver in hand and spinning around every few seconds because you hear the yowls coming closer and closer... then you glimpse it out the corner of the screen and whirl to fire, but too late...

[Ghurcb]

19 minutes ago, Bearimpaler101 said:

I feell like though it's not supposed to be something you go hunt randomly because you saw it. It's supposed to be something you prepare for if I'm going to hunt it in my run I'm going to get the ballistic vest first because it's strong and dangerous. If you could just shoot it before it attacks you then there is no fear of it.

Sure, but it would be a very unrealistic type of hunting, if your preparation is not setting up traps or readying weapons, but instead getting ready be beat up, possibly multiple times in row.

[Ghurcb]

12 minutes ago, conanjaguar said:

We already have behavior that makes stalking wolves charge you when you aim at them, it should be fairly easy to make a cougar slink back behind cover when you aim at it.

I'm not so certain about it, because what is cover? It would be a challenge to put it in code.

[conanjaguar]

17 minutes ago, Ghurcb said:

I'm not so certain about it, because what is cover? It would be a challenge to put it in code.

Fair point. The navmesh wouldn't work for that and to add "cover points" to every single tree, hill, and rock in the game would be a nightmare. Best way I can think of would be for the cougar to constantly shoot raycasts in the direction of the player to determine line of sight, then move to a point where as many of those raycasts as possible would be blocked. It sounds complex but it's certainly possible... I've seen devs on YouTube do similar things.

[Gracia_WolfSlayer]

Overall, I'm happy that the cougar exists, as it brings a new experience to the game. Am I disappointed that it doesn't exist in the game until it's triggered? Yes. Not because I think I should be able to hunt it, or even defend, it just takes the immersion out of it. I like the idea of it stalking from a great distance and you can catch a glimpse of it, or see tracks, but you can't ever really get the jump on it or shoot.

I really think it came down to pathfinding. In the console generated cougars in the video, the movement animation looks rough/unfinished. With the terrain in TLD, I bet it was too hard to get the cougar to track without getting stuck or moving poorly.

I also wish the counter downs would go away. How would I know it'll arrive in 4 days? Did the cougar send me a calendar invite? Maybe have more in world signs (I really like the scratching at the door of structures!) and maybe when it arrives you survivor can have some added dialogue? " Something is different... I should be moving on" or "I don't think it's safe to stay here." Just some ideas.

Not breaking the game for me at all, I got used to the weird hud/meters for the Timber Wolves, and I'm sure I'll learn to live with this. Maybe they can even make the hud stuff a toggle you can turn off?

 

[conanjaguar]

3 minutes ago, Gracia_WolfSlayer said:

Did the cougar send me a calendar invite?

"You are cordially invited to dinner and a murder."

- K. Cat

[Gracia_WolfSlayer]

1 minute ago, conanjaguar said:

"You are cordially invited to dinner and a murder."

- K. Cat

"Make sure to bring a hot dish" 😜 

[Kayosiv]

5 hours ago, Serenity said:

I'm not a fan of the game-y "the cougar is coming in X days" UI element. That's useful information to have, but how do you know? It breaks immersion. All the teasers and videos gave the impression that you would get in-world information about its presence before it attacked you. Just coming across cougar footprints would be an easy thing to do.

The cougar doesn't actually exist in the game. It is a gamey element in a survival game that's best feature is the minimalization of gamey elements. Everything about how you just "know" it's coming feels off. The Long dark is an unpredictable game and that is what makes it great. You don't know when the aurora is coming, or when the moose will spawn, or if you'll catch any fish. I know so much about the cougar and I've never seen it. I never will see it, unless I want to or play poorly. It's an an experience of choice that you don't get to choose, so to speak. 

I have too much information, given to me by game UI elements and nothing else, about when it is coming for it to be anything but my fault or my choice if I see it. The reason for this is that the current implementation of the cougar would feel very unfair or confusing without those gamey elements. The solution wasn't to add those gamey UI elements, but to change how the cougar worked so it didn't feel so unfair or confusing. 

There is no bright neon sign that MOOSE HERE or THIS IS BEAR CAVE. You have to look at the game and the surroundings and notice patterns and in-game clues. You hear circling birds but there is no text alerting you that an animal carcass is nearby or an arrow pointing to the direction of the carcass. Everything about how the Cougar works is a departure from the current game design, and I am not a fan.

 

The cougar should exist in the world, full stop. Maybe it follows the player around, but I would be a much bigger fan of there being say, 3 cougars in the entire world in random regions when the game starts. Getting rid of a cougar den should get rid of it forever, or perhaps just lock it out of that region forever. Right now cougar dens and how they are destroyed are pointless. The idea of hunting down this super hard to find singular spot in the world is super cool, and the reward is the same as just leaving the region you're in?

I hope devs take the time to take another look at the cougar.

 

 

[wild]

6 hours ago, Serenity said:

I'm not a fan of the game-y "the cougar is coming in X days" UI element. That's useful information to have, but how do you know? It breaks immersion. All the teasers and videos gave the impression that you would get in-world information about its presence before it attacked you. Just coming across cougar footprints would be an easy thing to do. In the release video at 2:20 it shows a dead bunny that's supposed to be a warning sign. I supposed it's difficult to place these things in a way that ensure the player will actually come across them.

This is how I feel about it. I can take the rest with the cougars - not being able to hit it before, the random attacks, etc. I'm find with that.

My problem is solely with the HUD and UI elements. I do not want to be alerted on the map; it breaks immersion greatly. I want to have to keep track, mentally or in my journal, how long I've been in a territory. I want signs in the game - pawprints, scratch marks.  Heck, I'm fine even if there's no warnings and the only warning is when it arrives - the animals running scared, the dead rabbits, etc. I just want the UI and HUD elements gone. There being a constant red cougar face any time I go outside if it's in the territory is annoying. I know. I'm taking the risk. Let the element at least fade or something after the initial second. Having the warning on the map with the arrival, then how long it stays, is just... easy. It breaks it for me, especially since the map is always 'this thing my character drew and updated' and now I get a magical warning on it.

Really, take some of the anxiety from darkwalker and put it in for when it's about to arrive for the character, make the animals spook faster, etc. Just please, would love if the UI stuff was reworked.

Oh, and give us an option to make it even faster than ten days, please!

Edited Tuesday at 06:39 PM by wild
Added thoughts.

[Serenity]

32 minutes ago, Kayosiv said:

The cougar should exist in the world, full stop. Maybe it follows the player around,

That would be ideal. I like the idea of it being somewhere in the distance, watching you, but if you go after it, it hides and despawns. So you can't hunt it.

But as a compromise, I'd be fine if the cougar signs like paw prints and dead kills would just spawn out of sight Maybe while you sleep.

[Laika Ivanova]

6 hours ago, Ghurcb said:

Yeah, the fact that you can spawn cougars through developer console shows that Hinterland were trying to make it into an actual creature with AI, but gave up on the idea. Frankly, it would be better if the cougars were delayed but actually fleshed out.

Not necessarily. They just have re-used some code for mob behaviour for the runaway cutscene when you have a chance to shoot it, which may have been easier to implement by reusing some code. This would explain the odd behaviour the Cougar has when spawned in.

[TheTraditionalGentleman]

This perfectly sums up my thoughts on the cougar. I'm really hoping it gets a redux, and we get it as an actual animal in the world. I'm at the point where I'm just waiting for the final part of the DLC before playing, so hopefully the devs consider changing it. I'm excited about the new region, and I like the option to cheat death, but the cougar really feels like something that they wanted to have more fleshed out, but rushed out the door (gives me original wintermute ep 1-2 vibes).

[artmunki]

I haven't encountered the cougar myself yet, but from what I've seen about it so far I think I generally agree that it could maybe use a few tweaks in how it works. Kinda seems like most people have roughly the same sorta idea of what they'd like to see too.

Making it a little more immersive would seem the most obvious step - as it stands it feels more like a mechanic than a living part of the game, which does seem really odd for a critter. I do get the stalking threat nature of the addition, but I think there are ways it could be implemented a little more naturally without fundamentally changing the way it works.

Clearly (from the launch video, and the few other bits I've seen) it does actually have a model, so maybe once it's actually actively "hunting" you in a region, the model could sorta spawn in at a distance every now & then, giving you a chance to spot it crouching on a rock or ducking behind a tree or something, always watching but never close enough to have much (if any) chance to get a shot at it. And if you try to run to where you saw it, all you'd find would be a few footprints in the snow, and perhaps some scratches where it ran up a tree or rockface and out of sight (temporarily despawned, not just "hiding"). Occasional glimpses would be far more effective at bumping up tension for the player than just that red icon in the corner and whatever signs are present.

The spawned model could also be a sorta trigger for the actual attack too - like if the spawned model "watches" for X amount of time without being spotted by the player (probably a bit difficult to judge in code tbf - maybe like if the player halts a certain focal area of the FOV on its distant model or something, that means it's been spotted and it just skulks off/despawns), that's when the die is rolled for the assault. And maybe when the attack actually comes, it would spawn/respawn in a few bounds behind the player, and roar/scream before leaping into the close assault, giving the player a mere moment to spin and see the attack coming. Maybe just enough to get, at best, one wild pistol shot off if you already have it out (a lucky hit could reduce the time and/or damage of the attack, without actually doing any damage to the cougar itself), but nothing else. None of this would fundamentally change how the whole thing plays out mechanically - you still can't actively hunt it, and the attack still comes essentially without warning - but it would make it much more convincingly integrated into the world, rather than just a condition imposed upon it.

It would of course be lovely to just see it out in the world too, even hunting other critters - both things I was personally really looking forward to - but I understand its function as a player motivating threat. But of course, I haven't actually met one yet in game, so there's every chance I might actually enjoy the way it plays out as-is.