More Guns!

[SuperStriker16]

Ok I can understand that people think we have enough guns currently in TLD, especially with the new variants, which are cool and all but I’m talking about some fairly major changes that more guns could bring to the table, such as a bigger rifle that could take down a bear in one shot if it headshot at base rifle skill or a shotgun that could take out multiple rabbits or ptarmigans with one shot.

 

The Shotgun: now with ptarmigans in the game, having a shotgun added to the game would be very helpful for taking out as many as

possible in a few shots and could also work the same against rabbits with birdshot loaded. Adding buckshot would be good too and it

would be great for easily killing wolves, being pretty effective against deer (it’s called buckshot for a reason) and also it would be cool if

it could stop or stun a charging bear, maybe not kill it outright but definitely injuring it. The shotgun could be a 12 gauge or 20 gauge as 

long as it has access to both bird (for much smaller targets having almost no effect on larger creatures) and buckshot (the medium 

game round that would be wasted on smaller critters but would be best used for self defense against wolves or hunting deer, not good 

for moose or bears however). To compensate for the versatility it could weigh a lot (6 kg I was thinking) and/or making the ammo 

harder to find than rifle ammunition. It would also be more expensive to craft the ammunition back after you fired it: 

1 12 gauge hull (the empty shell)

1 set of buckshot balls / birdshot pellets (crafted with lead scrap like the other bullets)

.03 kg gunpowder (3 times more than regular)

It could be a side by side, over under, or pump action, all would fit well in the current game. Another thing you could do with the shotgun 

would be to saw off some of the barrel and the butt stock making it into a pistol grip. This would make the gun much lighter (3 kgs) and 

like with the warden’s revolver, be quicker to draw making it better for self defense or pulling it out when you get snuck up on by fluffy

but at an obvious sacrifice to accuracy making it worse for hunting deer but potentially better for ptarmigans and rabbits as it would 

have a much higher spread both with birdshot and buckshot.

                                                                     

Remington 870, the model for the pump action shotgun.                      Over under (left) next to a side-by-side (right)

                        

      what a sawed-off side-by-side shotgun could look like         The difference between 12 gauge (right) and 20 gauge (left)

 

.338 caliber rifle: a common gun for big game hunting known for it’s power, a .338 rifle would be perfect for killing all those annoying 

bears and moose that spawn next to your base. it would be able to one shot bears and moose if you headshot them at base rifle skill.

Being quite the powerful cartridge that it is, it would be more expensive to craft:

1 .338 casing 

1 large caliber bullet (3 crafted from 1 lead scrap instead of 6)

.02 or .03 kgs of gunpowder

 

With all due respect to the .303 Brit, it’s a pretty powerful cartridge, but hunters living on great bear knowing what kind of animals they 

are hunting would realistically opt for the biggest gun they could realistically get and use, and I feel it would fit in the game pretty well. 

to further compensate for it’s power, the ammo would also be pretty rare and the gun would be extremely rare with only 1-3 spawns on

the entire map on non interloper. Depending on the difficulty (3 on pilgrim 2 on voyager and 1 on stalker, also changeable in custom

settings)

Potential spawn locations include: Trapper’s cabin, Mountaineer’s hut, the Riken, any of the cabins in ash canyon, gray mother’s house,

The hunting lodge in broken railway, and the summit of Timberwolf mountain.

      
                                       .338 rifle potential design 

To anyone from hinterland (potentially) reading this, having these guns would be pretty cool, but at least consider the shotgun, it wouldn’t be too game breaking, and I’m aware that you said that you were happy with the current guns that were in the game already, but at least consider some of these gun additions.

[conanjaguar]

I believe one of the problems in adding more guns to the game is in the proportions and ratios of gun to ammo. With two guns (not counting flare pistol), let’s say that each “ammo spot” can spawn either rifle or revolver ammo. Adding two more guns will either a; adding the new guns and ammo without decreasing existing spawns, thus unbalancing the game, or b; replacing existing ammo and weapons spawns to accommodate the new ones, thus adding two more variables for the spawning of ammo…

Simply put, we are currently rolling 6 or less on 2d6. Each new gun added adds another d6, so while there is still the same amount of ammo, each individual kind of ammo is less likely to be found.

[SuperStriker16]

@conanjaguar 

For the .338, I was thinking that the only place that you would find the ammo would be with the gun (in the house or location where you find it, there would be 20-50 rounds depending on difficulty), and for the shotgun shells, you would find some only in the most hunting themed locations like the ones I listed above and the small hunting shacks dotted randomly in the woods (such as draft dodgers cabin). They would spawn separately from rifle and revolver ammo so it doesn’t limit their spawns, but sense these rarer types of ammo only found in specific locations, it would be more balanced out. 

Thank you for your concern, if you have any other questions, feel free to ask.

[ManicManiac]

No thank you, honestly... with the variants I feel there are perhaps more than too many already.

I'm not judging anyone's opinions here, just very briefly summarizing mine.  

Edited July 17, 2023 by ManicManiac

[SuperStriker16]

Totally fine to have an opinion ManicManiac, but I’m curious, why don’t you like the idea of having more guns? Just wondering.

[FlamingFuball]

1 minute ago, SuperStriker16 said:

Totally fine to have an opinion ManicManiac, but I’m curious, why don’t you like the idea of having more guns? Just wondering.

I'm with Manic here, and the reason is that the three guns in the game have their niches: the rifle is for hunting, the revolver is for scaring off wolves and timberwolves, and the flare gun is for protection against bears and moose. I've seen the shotgun requested a few times, but I've never seen how it fills a niche the other weapons miss. Hunting rabbits and ptarmigan isn't hard even with just stones, and isn't particularly profitable on the food-side, and with buckshot the shotgun wouldn't function significantly differently from the hunting rifle.

[SuperStriker16]

43 minutes ago, FlamingFuball said:

I'm with Manic here, and the reason is that the three guns in the game have their niches: the rifle is for hunting, the revolver is for scaring off wolves and timberwolves, and the flare gun is for protection against bears and moose. I've seen the shotgun requested a few times, but I've never seen how it fills a niche the other weapons miss. Hunting rabbits and ptarmigan isn't hard even with just stones, and isn't particularly profitable on the food-side, and with buckshot the shotgun wouldn't function significantly differently from the hunting rifle.

With birdshot, the shotgun would be able to take out multiple ptarmigans especially when they fly away, and buckshot while similar in power to the rifle currently in the game, would be much better at closer ranges, making deer hunting a bit tougher leaving that role to the rifle or bow whatever you prefer. It’s effectiveness at close range basically guarantees the prevention of wolf struggles by instantly killing those wolves before they can get to you, while yes, if you were good with reaction speed and good at aiming with a revolver, killing or injuring wolves before they can get to you is no challenge. Not everyone is that good at that thought or has a revolver or ammunition, so it would help beginners especially on lower difficulties with stopping wolves and giving more ways to stop wolves. Stones are easy to find and get, but they only stun one animal at a time which if your over encumbered or the wind is in your face, they might get away, and stones require you to get real close so that doesn’t happen. With a shotgun however, you can kill many of them from a distance no matter what’s going on, preventing any possibility of escape. Now with more cooking and the new crafting recipes with the down of those ptarmigans, people most likely won’t just be killing them to eat immediately, and if they were, the shotgun would make things a lot easier. Basically depending on the ammunition you have, it would serve it’s purpose better than stones and revolvers as well as having a secondary role to the rifle allowing you to bring one gun to the hunt, rather than a revolver, a rifle, and a handful of rocks. The loud bang and pellets could stop/stun charging bears to help as a last ditch effort when the distress pistol runs out of flares inevitably, or you don’t want to waste a flare, or you don’t have a flare gun to begin with. It’s a gun that can serve many purposes and that’s why we need it, but it would remain balanced as to not entirely prevent the use of other guns.

I hope this provides any clarity to what you and others were thinking about this.

[ManicManiac]

I just wanted to be clear up front, that I'm not criticizing the idea or judging any of the folks who like the idea...
Far too often, I've had folks get rather hostile (even try to get personally insulting) towards me because I don't agree with them.

I just try to defuse that in my initial statements nowadays...

As for why I'm not a fan of the idea of even more guns, I'll reach back to some of the discussions I've been a part of in the past.
It may take a little while to sift through, however.

Edited July 17, 2023 by ManicManiac

[SuperStriker16]

Alright, just wondering.

[ManicManiac]

This is far from all of it... but in general I think it encapsulates the subject well enough.   

On 1/3/2021 at 2:50 PM, ManicManiac said:

I'm not in favor of more guns...

I'll rehash what I've discussed about this subject before in many, many previous threads:

I think that with the addition of the Revolver I think we have all the weapons/defenses we could ever really need in this game. 

I am wary about stuffing in too many weapons into the game.  I am worried that adding too much could undermine the intended experience of the game.  I don't want to ever feel really safe in this game, the fun of playing for me is the constant threat and danger... the struggle of not being super well equipped.

I think it serves the game better to have to be cautious and aware of surrounding wildlife.  I wouldn't want to be able to roam around with impunity because I know I can just drive off/kill anything that crosses my path.  I'm not saying this suggestion would do that... I'm just concerned about the cumulative effect on gameplay of having too many weapons and defenses.

I am concerned about having too many weapons in the game... I don't really want to run around feeling like Gordon Freeman in this game... because I don't think it's that kind of game.

Also, it goes back again to that feeling of vulnerability.  I think if we have too many weapons, we end up feeling like we're safe...on top of the food chain again.  I'd argue that part of the heart of this game is the feeling of isolation and vulnerability.  That we don't have everything we need to be on top... that we have to struggle, move carefully, and gauge risk and reward.  I tend to think that adding a more and more weapons will undermine and greatly take away from that.  Which is why I don't think we need any more of them.

The only weapon that I'd be curious about (and solely because Hinterland has discussed possibly reworking it for implementation into Survival Mode in the past) would be the Bear Spear.  While I think it's definitely not a necessity, I would be curious to see what Hinterland would come up with for it.  However, I still don't think we really need any more weapons in this game.

On 5/31/2019 at 3:24 PM, ManicManiac said:

It's a neat suggestion, and I like the points that have been discussed. 

Though... with the addition of the Revolver I think we have all the weapons/defenses we could ever really need in this game (stones, torches, flares, rifle, bow, flare gun, revolver... soon we'll have a bear spear too).

I like the idea - I do, but I am wary about adding too many weapons/defenses into the game.  I am worried that adding too much could undermine the intended experience of the game.  I don't want to ever feel really safe in this game, the fun of playing for me is the constant threat and danger... the struggle of not being super well equipped.

I think it serves the game better to have to be cautious and aware of surrounding wildlife.  I wouldn't want to be able to roam around with impunity because I know I can just drive off/kill anything that crosses my path.  I'm not saying this suggestion would do that... I'm just concerned about the cumulative effect on gameplay of having too many weapons and defenses.

On 6/8/2019 at 4:09 PM, ManicManiac said:

All much discussed ideas.  If you use the forum search feature you will find quite a few.  (though it never hurts to refresh an idea or suggestion)  

However, I will comment on my feelings on each here as well.

Compass... would likely never work because of the geo-magnetic event that kicked off this quiet apocalypse.  Story mode explains this quite a bit, so check that out if you haven't yet.

Binoculars: I don't really see much need for them in this game... I always try to express that a sense of vulnerability is part of the flavor of this game.  I would hate to ever feel like I was really safe.  I rather like it as it is... you have to travel cautiously and move deliberately.  Being able to spot danger easier, instead of keeping your wits about you would take something away from this game that I would very much like to keep.

...More and more weapons: Frankly with the addition of the Revolver (and the Bear Spear, as soon as they are done reworking it), we already have all the weapons/defenses we need.  Once again, I am concerned that if there are too many weapons in this game that it will undermine what the game is.  We already have: Rocks, knives, hatches, heavy hammers, pry bars, Snares, Decoys, Torches, Flairs, Bow/Arrows, Flair Gun, Rifle, and Revolver...

On 6/8/2019 at 4:43 PM, ManicManiac said:

Well like I said, it's never bad to revisit an idea.  Especially if you notice that it's one that hasn't been discussed in a while.  So there's no issue there.   
 

Quote

Another poster was being quoted here... removing for brevity (and not trying to stir up old debates) 

Which is why I say, that I am concerned about having too many weapons in the game... I don't think we really want to run around feeling like Gordon Freeman in this game, because it's not that kind of game.   

Also, it goes back again to that feeling of vulnerability.  If you have too many weapons, you end up feeling like you are safe...on top of the food chain again.  I'd argue that the heart of this game is feeling isolated and vulnerable.  That we don't have everything we need to be on top... that we have to struggle, move carefully, and gauge risk and reward.  I tend to think that adding a more and more weapons will take away from that.  Which is why I don't think we need any more of them.

The reason why we haven't gotten the bear spear in survival yet... I suspect is because they are trying to figure out a way for it to work and be useful on other hostile wild life as well as bears... but honestly I wouldn't mind if it was only for bear, because we have more than enough to deal with everything else already anyways.

As for your reducing the list, keep in mind that I listed everything that can be used as a weapon both active and defensive to help illustrate the point that we already have a fairly large number of options for our survivor.  I think most of this community does not want this game to turn into a shooter.  There are other games for that. 

I personally like feeling the struggle of not having what I need to survive, and having to get creative with what I do have to get the most out of it... I like that touch of anxiety going up over a hill or going around a blind corner.  I don't want to be able to just run around the world with impunity... I just think it would take away from the game.

So then back to Binoculars... once again that feeling of vulnerability, I think is part of the heart of this game... and getting turned around and lost is a part of that.  Now those of us who have play enough on each map - it's nearly impossible for them to get lost nowadays. But still, some of the best moments in the game for me were getting lost and having to get creative in how to orient myself and get my bearings.  We don't need binoculars for that   Use sun rise and sun set... you can see pretty much any land mark from most distances as long as you have a line of sight.  Binoculars won't really help with any of that.  A lot of the fun for me has always been exploring... and being able to scout from a distance... while perhaps handy, would take away from some of the danger of traveling and I wouldn't be in favor of that.

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not criticizing your ideas... I'm just trying to give you my perspective on them.  It's your wish list post after all.  All ideas are welcomed, but all ideas will get discussed  

On 6/8/2019 at 5:04 PM, ManicManiac said:

Ultimately though, I trust Hinterland...  I trust they will keep the spirit of the game intact.  If they do add more weapons, then fine... then like I always say, it will come down to player choice.  In that if I don't like a particular thing, I just choose not to use it. 

But, in the context of wish lists and brainstorming, I do tend to offer the perspective of caution in terms of the community clamoring for more of "X, Y, or Z" and keep in mind how that might affect the core / feel / heart & soul of a game that we love.  That's all.  

 

[Leeanda]

Personally I'd rather have something to replace the revolver.. I never use it and like the variants they're sitting in the fridge unused.

[ManicManiac]

@Leeanda

Frankly I'd like to just trash most of them for scrap.  
Last I knew we could do that for rifles... but not revolvers.

I mean for now, I just leave them behind at my main encampments... but I don't really ever travel with any of the weapons.

Edited July 17, 2023 by ManicManiac

[Leeanda]

1 minute ago, ManicManiac said:

@Leeanda

Frankly I'd like to just trash them for scrap.  
Last I knew we could do that for rifles... but not revolvers.

Lol..  😁

I could never part with my beloved rifle though but I thought I'd just be awkward and put my two cents worth in😅

[ManicManiac]

As it stands, I don't trash any of them.  There are enough available on Stalker that it's just easier to leave them all behind in each region and move on.
I do keep them stashed at my encampments for when I do want/need to go out for a hunt (which is usually far less than one might think - especially considering it's possible to go several hundreds of days without using a weapon to hunt).
...even on interloper... it's doable to never use a bow to hunt.

I might take a weapon when I know Timberwolves are in the equation... but even those are avoidable in many cases.
Though good sense dictates having one on hand anyway.  

I really mean it when I say that I never want to feel safe when I'm out and about in Great Bear Island.
I love this game for the struggle.
Most often all I carry for defense are some rocks in my pocket. 🤭

Edited July 17, 2023 by ManicManiac

[SuperStriker16]

If you end up getting to a high enough skill level with the revolver, it becomes an almost invaluable asset. Having fairly common ammunition makes it very much worth using if you don’t want to waste rifle cartridges. I do feel that struggles with the revolver need to be reworked so you can take a shot earlier, maybe making it so that the later you take the shot, the more likely you are to hitting the wolf and killing it. As for my idea with the shotgun, it would be a direct upgrade to the revolver and to stones while partially covering the role of the rifle but not as well. Of course the ammo would be more expensive to replace and the shotgun itself would be heavy and hard to find, but it would be worth it for the versatility. It would probably have a skill of its own so that would be something to contend with.

[Leeanda]

I used to use all the weapons ,all the time,. Got rather trigger happy if I'm honest.. but the more I play the less I find I need to use them... Once the ammo runs out ,then that's that,so I try to learn how to use the bow(very badly)😁.   But the first weapon I realised was not worth using is the revolver... For bunnies I use the bow to get the practice in for bigger things and to level that last bit that  the books don't... For wolves which I hardly ever kill I use the rifle,also for the moose..the bear I use the flare gun only..and I never bother with deer at all.   

Plus as I'm rather nomadic Id rather just carry one weapon and enough ammo  at all times than carry two or swap weapons for different occasions.

[Leeanda]

Also I've never liked the fact that you can't move when aiming with the revolver.  

[SuperStriker16]

Same here

[conanjaguar]

I personally wouldn’t count any of the variants as separate weapons… they’re just that, variants.

Going off on a little tangent here… but against the upcoming cougar, I don’t think Hinterland will make it easy for us by giving us significantly more powerful guns. I think the aim is that we’re supposed to be hunted, not it.

I think that the shotgun could be a viable addition to the game if it had some effect on the hide/meat of the animal. With a normal bullet/arrow hole, it’s just one nice, neat hole that doesn’t matter much. But when you’re firing tiny pellets, that will shred the hide and some of the meat of whatever you are shooting at. If this was accounted for, then it would essentially replace the flare gun as your last-ditch defense weapon and allow you to actively use it.

[SuperStriker16]

 

1 hour ago, conanjaguar said:

 

I personally wouldn’t count any of the variants as separate weapons… they’re just that, variants.

 

 

Same here, that’s why I think it would be better to just add actual new gun(s) rather than just slight variations of old ones.

1 hour ago, conanjaguar said:

I think that the shotgun could be a viable addition to the game if it had some effect on the hide/meat of the animal. With a normal bullet/arrow hole, it’s just one nice, neat hole that doesn’t matter much. But when you’re firing tiny pellets, that will shred the hide and some of the meat of whatever you are shooting at. If this was accounted for, then it would essentially replace the flare gun as your last-ditch defense weapon and allow you to actively use it.

I had made an earlier post on meat wastage, and I think it’s a great idea, say you shot a rabbit almost point blank with the shotgun or hunting rifle, it would have reduced/no meat to harvest and destroy the hide and guts. That is a great system that I’d think would work great, and some meat/hide waste on deer and wolves shot with buckshot makes sense, the further away you are though, the less waste but worse chances of actually killing the animal. It wouldn’t really matter for self defense because wolf meat and hide isn’t the main reason most people kill wolves. thank you for bringing that up Conanjaguar.

[FaT McMarlin]

I like the idea of a shot gun but 2 variants.  long barrel full stock and a coach gun style where you've still got the stock for stability but the barrel is shorter. I definitely agree with flying birds in the game a shotgun with bird shot would be nice, slugs over buck cause it's bear territory and with limited resources coming into the island before the first flare, if I were there, I'd skip the buck shot entirely. Slugs and bird shot are all I would buy. 

As for the a different rifle, I can see why it's old military surplus the island uses. It's cheap. There was tons of .303 produced due the Canadian military involvement in WW1 and WW2.  I don't see the residents using anything but mass produced items old surplus. Old bolt action sold as is, 100 dollars at a government auction. Cases of .303 British to go with it, 25 bucks for 100 rounds. The government bought it for war, now they try to recap some loss from the purchase. Manufactures are free to sell to the public. .303 is all I can see as realistic being left. After the collapse, anyone who could leave and had more powerful arms took them away.  Just my thoughts. Interesting topic to say the least.

[Stranzua]

I think this game can just keep adding more and more stuff without too much of an issue, especially if those items are rare, found in specific areas, come with a custom setting, and have a chance of not even spawning. If you're playing on lower difficulties the more the merrier, and guns will never be added to Interloper, so why not? 

I'm still hoping for a difficulty between stalker and interloper that has completely random loot tables, this way items like the technical backpack could be anywhere, and there will be no guaranteed matches. The game is supposed to be simulating a crash on an island you know little about, and interloper is so tough that you have to know where matches are. That middle ground sounds like it can be a lot of fun. 

[SuperStriker16]

@FaT McMarlin Your right, but mabye have all 3

birdshot for varmint and of course birds. 

buckshot mostly for self defense but could be used for hunting.

slugs of course for killing bears and moose

 

Now that I think of it, we don’t need the .338 as long as they add slugs, they would serve a similar purpose, and still work at range due to it not spreading. To craft a slug you could just use a entire lead scrap, expensive but effective.

[ajb1978]

I'm not really in favor of adding more guns just for the sake of having more guns, they need to solve a problem.

Bow: Best all-around solution.

Distress Pistol: Stops a charging bear.

Rifle: Long range, pinpoint accuracy.

Revolver: Multiple rapid-fire shots for handling multiple targets (i.e. timberwolves.)

And the variants are neat collectibles that do give the player some variety, but in and of themselves they do not introduce any new content. So a new weapon would need to address some problem, and I don't see any problems we have  that more guns will fix. Now a melee weapon on the other hand, THAT could be useful. Something that requires no ammunition whatsoever, but that lets you be proactive in your defense. In the past I've suggested adding an "alt-fire" to the Bear Spear that adds a thrusting or slashing attack that completely drains your Stamina wheel all in one go, and does damage proportionate to how much Stamina you had in the tank. The more well-rested you are, the more devastating the strike. Say 50% or higher on the Fatigue meter is a guaranteed kill on a successful hit, anything lower rolls the dice. (Edit: Or deer too if you manage to hit them with it, but that'll be tricky unless you manage to get in the path of one that's running at you...in which case the game should probably incorporate some consequences to being run over by a deer if you miss.) Or use it as it is in Story Mode to defend against Bears and Moose. Similar deal to Story, win three struggles and it dies. If you try to brace the spear against a wolf charge, the wolf simply stops and growls, waiting until you run out of Stamina and lower the spear, then it strikes. Have it weigh 4kg making it a bit of a beast for daily carry, but since it functionally has infinite ammo, that's your trade-off. Maybe degrade at the same rate as a bow since the crafting recipe buried in the game calls for a maple sapling.

Edited July 18, 2023 by ajb1978

[Leeanda]

Ain't no one taking my curators away from me,or the flare gun😁 

But something for birds instead of the revolver would be good...  My first post was for adding geese ,but ptarmigans are good ,and I'd like the challenge of trying to down me a flying target.

Edited July 18, 2023 by Leeanda