Finished EP4! My impressions

[yoli]

So I've finished Wintermute EP4 (on Desktop PC), I may have hit a record knowing I started playing it when it went out... Ok I'm a bit slow, but I am playing very occasionally (playing in survival mode too) and I also spent much time wandering around and do some non essential survival trips. As I am writing this, I am still under the influence of the ending cinematics which blew me away!

Overall this EP seemed to me more "directed" than the others, i.e. as a movie would be. It is both in the fact there are lots of cinematics and storytelling, and also fast action paced moments. One "new" ingredient in this EP is also the puzzle games like with pipes and so on. My opinion on all this is I loved the improved storytelling, but not much the puzzle aspects nor the time limited action paced moments. This is subjective of course, but enjoying TLD for its awesome immersive survival qualities, I have the impression to waste my time solving puzzles, or restarting the same time-limited scene multiple times just because I was not fast enough, I didn't see that exit etc. These are other type of challenges and in my opinion, they do not mix very well with the TLD experience. In survival mode, the state in which you are is mostly your responsibility, i.e. how you managed your stuff and if you're in a bad condition, this is mostly because you didn't do the right things (and luck sometimes too...). Whereas triggering endless pipe combinations or rushing into corridors are really something else, they were not that appealing to me. The puzzle games actually made me pause playing the game for several weeks as just the idea I had to go back into this maze of pipes was unsettling.

Regarding the storytelling, level design, quests, side-quests, everything was great, interesting and polished. I generally enjoyed this EP as I did for the other ones and eagerly await the conclusion.

Edited July 31, 2022 by yoli

[James Hickok]

@yoli

You must be really bad with puzzles huh? Those puzzles were soooooooo easy to make

I agree with you on the matter that it was not really necesary to implement in a game like TLD - oh well i guess they were trying to improve the gaming experience.

[Ghurcb]

On 7/31/2022 at 10:23 PM, yoli said:

Whereas triggering endless pipe combinations or rushing into corridors are really something else, they were not that appealing to me.

Okay, running through the smoke trying to find the right way felt weird to me too. It's a situation similar to fighting the Old Bear from episode 2. You plant the spear too late? You fail the QTE? Whatever, just reload the last save and start over. The Long Dark is not exactly a try-die-repeat type of game, so such things seem out of place.
But pipe combinations, seriously? This puzzle is SO simple. It's like a mobile game for 10-year-olds. I almost wish it was more difficult, incorporating more elements. If you were trying to solve it by pushing levers randomly, you were doing it wrong.

[Leeanda]

I have to agree with  @yoli .  While I didn't struggle with the pipes ,running around in corridors and gas filled mazes wasn't very appealing to me either..   even on survival I avoid them  unless it's absolutely necessary. .

[yoli]

4 hours ago, James Hickok said:

@yoli

You must be really bad with puzzles huh? Those puzzles were soooooooo easy to make

3 hours ago, Ghurcb said:

But pipe combinations, seriously? This puzzle is SO simple.

Right the pipe maze was more boring than difficult I have played EP4 over such a long period I don't remember all the steps, I think this may be the Detonators part that got me leave the game for a while as I was under the impression it would once again lead me into a boring puzzle game.

It's ok to try new things though, not everything can be successful and it's only by trying that we know. I just hope they realize long lasting puzzle games are not really the type of challenge we may expect from TLD, at least for me.

3 hours ago, Ghurcb said:

It's a situation similar to fighting the Old Bear from episode 2. You plant the spear too late? You fail the QTE? Whatever, just reload the last save and start over. The Long Dark is not exactly a try-die-repeat type of game, so such things seem out of place.

I do not share that view. The Old Bear challenge was actually very fit into the TLD experience in my opinion. In survival journeys there may be tougher challenges that requires special techniques and attention, that is fine. The problem in EP4 for me was that these puzzle games and time limited challenges seemed like fake/made-up, i.e. let's find some stuff to get our players busy for a while. But that is not the right approach in my opinion, this is breaking immersion and consistency when the challenges look made up (just my opinion of course).

[Ghurcb]

16 minutes ago, yoli said:

I do not share that view. The Old Bear challenge was actually very fit into the TLD experience in my opinion. In survival journeys there may be tougher challenges that requires special techniques and attention, that is fine.

To be clear, I love the Old Bear challenge and I DO believe it gets the atmosphere of the game spot-on. BUT the fact that if you fail the encounter, you have to restart it until you do it right, breaks the immersion. It would be better if the bear tore your clothes to shreds and left you at 10% hp, as that is what the long dark is all about. It's about making choices and trying to survive their consequences. But when you make a mistake and the game just tells you "Nope, try again", it's just not "the long dark" way of going about it.

That's also why I didn't appreciate the fact that the toxic gases in the Last Prospect mine kill you immediately once the timer runs out. It's especially frustrating in survival mode. Wouldn't this mechanic be better if you were given a little more time as your max health quickly goes down to zero? And then, you'd have to wait for 20 days to gradually regain this part of your healthbar. Wouldn't THAT be a more "the long dark" punishment for being too slow?

[yoli]

26 minutes ago, Ghurcb said:

 It would be better if the bear tore your clothes to shreds and left you at 10% hp, as that is what the long dark is all about. It's about making choices and trying to survive their consequences. But when you make a mistake and the game just tells you "Nope, try again", it's just not "the long dark" way of going about it.

26 minutes ago, Ghurcb said:

That's also why I didn't appreciate the fact that the toxic gases in the Last Prospect mine kill you immediately once the timer runs out. It's especially frustrating in survival mode. Wouldn't this mechanic be better if you were given a little more time as your max health quickly goes down to zero? And then, you'd have to wait for 20 days to gradually regain this part of your healthbar. Wouldn't THAT be a more "the long dark" punishment for being too slow?

Right I do agree with this, these mechanics would better fit TLD I think. I think the challenges need to come down to user choices in the end, not fatalities, this is what is motivating. Also, when successfully passing a challenge, we should have learned something which potentially can help us later on. Ok this is much more difficult to design, and could also make Wintermute more difficult than it was intended (I think the story mode is designed to be relatively simple regarding survival than the survival mode is). This is a difficult trade off to find for the designers, there are very different profiles playing this game.

Edited August 2, 2022 by yoli

[Admin]

Thank you for your feedback, and thank you for playing! We're very excited to share future updates with you. 

[yoli]

9 hours ago, Admin said:

Thank you for your feedback, and thank you for playing! We're very excited to share future updates with you. 

Thanks for your comment! Sure I am eager to see what's next in the Hinterland world

[Stinky socks]

You didn't mention one most important thing: did you realize how super bad Donner actually is?🙃

[RaineAshton]

I greatly disliked the gas and smoke sections. I had a sprained ankle in the mines, so there were parts that my character could not move fast enough to complete. In the prison, the 'right path' was unclear, so I died multiple times for going into the wrong room rather than under or over the ruble.

I don't think it was very good game design. I think this sort of 'run as fast as you can' can gameplay needs to 'railroad' the player harder, and works better as a chase scene. I would have preferred the gameplay be hopping from island to island of clean air.

These sections felt like I was being forced to speedrun them, and that's not the type of gameplay I want from the long dark.

[Sherri]

I personally have a different take on these puzzles.

Many people also complained about the carrying of plane crash survivors and the timberwolf attacks in episode 3. And other puzzle type elements like the fuses in the mine, etc.

But for me, I play wintermute similar to survival mode. I do my own thing, explore the region in depth, stockpile things & really stretch the story out. So my default play mode is very passive & exploratory. I really enjoy these puzzle & story hurdles as a means to take a more active role for a time. It breaks up the quiet, peaceful, (sometimes kinda dull) pace & gives me a good head-scratcher to figure out.

Granted some of them really got my blood boiling for a while (the big bear fight)... but I appreciated coming out the other side back into peaceful exploration.

I'm on the whole - glad these elements exist.

Although I agree that some kind of consequence to failure besides a hard reset would be nice. And reloading to try again would be optional. That would also be cool.

[conanjaguar]

@Sherri

Hi there; haven’t seen you on the forums for a while!

22 hours ago, Sherri said:

I really enjoy these puzzle & story hurdles as a means to take a more active role for a time. It breaks up the quiet, peaceful, (sometimes kinda dull) pace & gives me a good head-scratcher to figure out.

Agreed... a good puzzle never hurt !