House rules

[Salty Crackers]

What 'house rules' do you follow in-game? I personally use quite a few.

 

Clothing- You are not allowed to wear two hats or scarves. The innermost torso slot must be a shirt, rather than a sweater.

This makes the Long Wool Scarf and Wool Shirt actually valuable relative to their rarity.

 

Food- You may not eat ruined food. Raw meat can be left uncooked until it is ruined.

This makes Level 5 cooking somewhat less overpowered and makes me more realistically cook food when I need it, rather than cook everything at once.

 

Gameplay- You may not use the 'torch trick' to save matches. You can't chop up carcasses into tiny bits to grind Cooking. You cannot scare wolves away from carcasses by aiming weapons at them.

This is mostly personal preference, as I view these tactics as bordering on exploits.

 

Loot- You must leave behind half of the loot in Cargo Containers and Airline Food at the Crash Site, decided randomly.

I play on a modified Interloper with base resource availability set to Medium. This means that the cargo containers are absolutely packed full of loot, while the rest of the world is comparatively empty. The Crash Site will easily have 7-8 Airline Food. Using a random number generator to get rid of some of the loot means some crates will be nearly empty while others will be mostly full. It also makes it possible the Summit won't have some of the high-tier clothing, if you're unlucky.

 

Other- The only items you can harvest for cloth are clothing, pillows, bedrolls, and pieces of cloth (like in the Camp Office).

This is to make cloth a more critical resource in the long term.

Edited December 14, 2021 by Salty Crackers

[dbmurph22]

I also don't like to eat ruined food for the same reason. C5 is overpowered as it is and it feels a bit sketch.

I use the torch trick and chain torches, but I do customize runs to do without that (or simply disallow any torches that aren't crafted as I made a thread about) as I feel it adds depth, difficulty and is slightly less game-y.

I don't cut up food in tiny pieces.  To me that's one of the biggest examples of exploits.  The minimum I do is what the game and animal provides (ie just don't use the cancel button).

The clothing thing is interesting.  I'll have to consider that.

I find extreme "goating" a bit unsavory.  I will do some but I will only pull out the more ridiculous versions very rarely.  

Yeah I don't do the scare preds from carcasses tactic - I've seen it done, but I've never felt like I should do it.  I will of course run deer/rabbit into them and try to kill, though.

I've toyed with house rules of not leaving meat piles outside.  Only in outside containers (or a cache, but I haven't tried that), or inside though it will rot fast.  I don't do this every time, but it's interesting as we know that piles of meat outside would not last.  Thanks for the topic.

Edited December 14, 2021 by dbmurph22

[Lord of the Long Dark]

When you set base resources to medium you are not playing modified interloper. You are playing modified stalker. 
 That’s a massive massive massive advantage- hardly even close to interloper.  When you play interloper you don’t even get a single thing in 95% of containers- not tons of loot in 80% of them like in stalker. 
 

Edited December 14, 2021 by Lord of the Long Dark

[dbmurph22]

17 minutes ago, Lord of the Long Dark said:

When you set base resources to medium you are not playing modified interloper. You are playing modified stalker. 
 That’s a massive massive massive advantage- hardly even close to interloper.  When you play interloper you don’t even get a single thing in 95% of containers- not tons of loot in 80% of them like in stalker. 
 

I think most who read that will understand the advantage that this provides.  I believe the reason the OP calls it "modifier interloper" instead of "modified stalker" is that when they go to the custom game option, they set everything to interloper and then modify that one setting (and yes, it's one of the most affecting settings that determines what normal game type it most resembles).  They do this instead of setting it to stalker and then modifying many multiple settings.  It's probably simple as that.  I agree that with this addition it probably goes beyond even in between and more closely to stalker.  

It's likely that most aren't as focused as you on nomenclature.  But it can provide clarity and prevent misperceptions.

[Lord of the Long Dark]

Just now, dbmurph22 said:

I think most who read that will understand the advantage that this provides.  I believe the reason the OP calls it "modifier interloper" instead of "modified stalker" is that when they go to the custom game option, they set everything to interloper and then modify that one setting (and yes, it's one of the most affecting settings that determines what normal game type it most resembles).  They do this instead of setting it to stalker and then modifying many multiple settings.  It's probably simple as that.  I agree that with this addition it probably goes beyond even in between and more closely to stalker.  

It's likely that most aren't as focused as you on nomenclature.  But it can provide clarity and prevent misperceptions.

Agreed that It’s still modified stalker. Modified interloper is starting with interloper setting and making them harder not easier. 
     If your loot settings are medium, weather is set easier, you start with a gun or bedroll or you tone down animals you aren’t playing interloper. You are playing stalker. 

[dbmurph22]

As a simple survivor in the audience of not only the Lord of Nomenclature, but also the Lord of the Long Dark, I must acquiesce.  Modified Stalker it is, and has been decreed.  Let the record show.  I must now leave and try not to die freezing.

[Salty Crackers]

My settings are based on Interloper, with base resources set to medium, no at-rest condition recovery, no cabin fever, no birch bark tea, decay rate set to high and rifle spawns enabled. Is it easier than Interloper? Probably. But with no at-rest condition recovery or tea, I have to carefully manage my condition, only gaining around 10-12% a day when all needs are positive. It makes the game more enjoyable for me than being able to gain half my condition back every night.

[Lord of the Long Dark]

Is that easier than interloper lol? 
yeah. 
it’s easier than stalker in fact. 
  Its like saying pilgrim is based on interloper but with high loot settings, no cabin fever, no animal aggros, guns, top line clothing, low decay…. But otherwise, it’s EXACTLY like interloper ROTFLMAO.

   People don’t realize- interloper is not just the hardest level- it’s an entirely different game altogether. If you soften interloper even a little, it’s not interloper it’s stalker. 

Edited December 14, 2021 by Lord of the Long Dark

[Guest jeffpeng]

I'm basically at the stance that what works, works. The main things I don't do is mince meat to get cooking 5 in like day 2, as that clearly wasn't intended, and starve intentionally since I think it mostly invalidates one of the resources in the game (food). Both problems apparently have no easy, no obvious way to fix them, so I act as if they weren't a thing.

Also I don't use pathing limitations to my advantage, nor do I hide in cars or houses after taking my shot. If I want to hunt a bear or a moose, and I don't manage to line up a shot from where they don't see me, and I don't take the appropriate protective measures I kinda have to expect retaliation. There are intended countermeasures for both in the game. I don't wanna cheap out on them.

But everything else .... kinda goes.

I'd love to see a feasible alternative to pulling torches in the game, but there just isn't any. You need torches on Interloper, and you cannot feasibly afford them in the amount you need them unless you pull them from fires. Lamp oil is just too scarce, and the only way to procure it otherwise, fishing, is not sustainable on Interloper until the very late game.

As for the clothing thing .... I've worn two cap on top of each other in real life. I've worn two sweaters on top of each other in real life. I don't really get that point.

Waving away wolves with stones .... yeah, I see that being stupid. On the other hand doing that is kinda the less advantageous way, since if you were smart you'd line up a nice shot and just eat both. So .... 🤷‍♂️

But yeah, in the end: everyone plays their game 😉

[Salty Crackers]

1 hour ago, Lord of the Long Dark said:

Is that easier than interloper lol? 
yeah. 
it’s easier than stalker in fact. 
  Its like saying pilgrim is based on interloper but with high loot settings, no cabin fever, no animal aggros, guns, top line clothing, low decay…. But otherwise, it’s EXACTLY like interloper ROTFLMAO.

   People don’t realize- interloper is not just the hardest level- it’s an entirely different game altogether. If you soften interloper even a little, it’s not interloper it’s stalker. 

No, it's not easier than Stalker. Most settings are at Interloper level, while some are at Stalker level. By definition, the difficulty lies somewhere between the two modes. I explicitly said the difficulty is probably less than Interloper, depending on how you factor in the very slow condition recovery versus the fast recovery of Interloper.

The reason I use medium base loot availability is that I want to be able to find knives and hatchets, but there is no individual setting for that. Otherwise, I would be on low base loot availability. With Interloper settings for loose items and empty container chance, I get a lot less loot than in Stalker (while still more than Interloper) with the exception of the cargo containers, which is why I have the house rule of leaving behind half the loot in the cargo containers.

[UpUpAway95]

I don't really have any "house rules" as you describe beyond tinkering with the custom settings in different ways for each run I attempt... trying to make each run play differently than the run before within the limitations of the variability of settings that Hinterland offers.  Even without mods, this game is more changeable than most out there and that makes for a lot of replay value.  I would love to see a lot more custom options introduced for that reason.

I do set up challenges for myself, my favorite being to spend 50 or 100 days by spawning in and staying in a single zone.  For zones without forges, this makes the standard interloper loot settings (baseline resources low) completely impractical since it is very unlikely to find arrowheads, so I find it necessary to enable the guns in order to have a means to hunt the various animals.  I find the challenge still significant since ammunition is quite limited in the single zones even with relaxed loot settings (this includes Bleak Inlet, since one must leave the zone in order to access the ammo forge... which breaks the challenge).  I'm still looking for a way to get up that cliff without circling around through FM and ML.  For zones with forges, the Heavy Hammer will not spawn in the zone the player spawns in on interloper settings... which again means the loot settings need to be changed in the custom menu in order to make the challenge practical and for there to be any chance for the heavy hammer to spawn.

Edited December 14, 2021 by UpUpAway95

[Guest jeffpeng]

I've been thinking about some in between game mode for some time now, since I actually dislike half the game not being in the game on Interloper. Technically there are a few things that are easier on Interloper than they are on Stalker, so maybe one can counteract this. Stalker has more wolves, for example. Fatigue is lower on Interloper. And even Interloper settings have a loot of room to balance out having access to more loot, like reducing wolf fear, or elevating smell range. Basically bringing the "good" parts of Deadman to counteract the availability of premium loot. I gotta think about this some more.

[UpUpAway95]

1 hour ago, jeffpeng said:

I've been thinking about some in between game mode for some time now, since I actually dislike half the game not being in the game on Interloper. Technically there are a few things that are easier on Interloper than they are on Stalker, so maybe one can counteract this. Stalker has more wolves, for example. Fatigue is lower on Interloper. And even Interloper settings have a loot of room to balance out having access to more loot, like reducing wolf fear, or elevating smell range. Basically bringing the "good" parts of Deadman to counteract the availability of premium loot. I gotta think about this some more.

I don't setting up another "standard" setting will change anything.  Interloper is achievable through the custom menu and so is Stalker.  It's just a matter of matching the custom settings to the ones Hinterland used to compile their "standard."  It's the amount of deviation and variation from the standard that is limited by the current number of settings that are lumped together under single custom options.

Players who happen to be "interloper elitists" are not going to change their attitudes towards players who play on the other standard difficulties just by introduction of a standard dificulty setting between interloper and stalker.  For them to change their opinions, Hinterland would have to introduce a difficulty that is universally acknowledged as being even more difficult than interloper... and that would probably mean, unfortunately, that they would just become elitists over the new difficulty.

Adding in another standard difficulty is, IMO, only serves a purpose as a "recommendation" to beginners or people who don't want to become at all familiar with the degree of flexibility offered by the custom menu.  In short, I would prefer to see more settings added to the custom menu than a new "standard" difficulty... which enables me and others to get even more creative about their individual challenge runs.  (As I said before, I'd actually like to see the idea of "standard" difficulties eliminated entirely, but I do realize that will likely never happen because it is inherent in some to compare, compete and rank themselves against others rather than just challenge themselves.

[Guest jeffpeng]

I'm not talking about a standard. Just a balanced custom setting that does include all loot, but still offers comparable challenge to Interloper.

[UpUpAway95]

10 minutes ago, jeffpeng said:

I'm not talking about a standard. Just a balanced custom setting that does include all loot, but still offers comparable challenge to Interloper.

I misunderstood then... my apologies.  How do you propose an "all loot" custom setting would be comparable to interloper?  The loot settings in custom don't control animal behaviors and such (i.e. the changes to wolf spawns you mention).  I'd be more inclined to think the solution would be to add in more custom toggles for individual items similar to how the guns are handled now.  E.g. Separate "on/off" toggles for items like knives, hatchets, arrows and broken arrows, heavy hammers, bedrolls, high quality clothing, saplings, reshis, rosehips, cattails, etc.  That way, even pilgrim players could set up runs where such items are missing entirely from their worlds if they desire... just to find out how possible it is to survive without them before, perhaps, advancing to runs with "stalker" aggressive animals.

[Guest jeffpeng]

I'm apparently really not very capable of expressing my thought in a coherent manner. The basic idea is: add full loot, like Stalker level, then crank other difficulties so long until it "feels" comparatively challenging. Since the cold will be much less of a problem with better clothing in the game, the challenge would have to come from other factors, like higher resource consumption, lower/no rest recovery, more dangerous predators. Now that I think of it .... that sounds a lot like that "Birchman Safari" setting someone used to play on Youtube. Basically Deadman, just with decent loot and birchbark tea.

[UpUpAway95]

1 hour ago, jeffpeng said:

I'm apparently really not very capable of expressing my thought in a coherent manner. The basic idea is: add full loot, like Stalker level, then crank other difficulties so long until it "feels" comparatively challenging. Since the cold will be much less of a problem with better clothing in the game, the challenge would have to come from other factors, like higher resource consumption, lower/no rest recovery, more dangerous predators. Now that I think of it .... that sounds a lot like that "Birchman Safari" setting someone used to play on Youtube. Basically Deadman, just with decent loot and birchbark tea.

There are players doing that now as you've noted.  Again, my apologies for interpreting your post as wanting Hinterland to add a "blanket" setting.  Still, I'd like some more options to add in individual items while maintaining the Baseline Resources Low setting and, alternatively, to turn off individual items when playing with a Baseline Resources Medium setting (which is where it is in Stalker mode).  The more options, the better... leaving the interpretation of how "difficult" the challenge becomes to the individual player.

[Guest jeffpeng]

32 minutes ago, UpUpAway95 said:

Still, I'd like some more options to add in individual items while maintaining the Baseline Resources Low setting and, alternatively, to turn off individual items when playing with a Baseline Resources Medium setting (which is where it is in Stalker mode).

Oh, sure, that would be nice in any case. But I feel Hinterland as bigger fish to fry for the time being 😉

[PiterZ]

I really liked this thread. I am impressed with all your ideas. They are really very inspiring. I've been going to play Interloper level for a while without even creating a bow. Only eat what I find. Don't hunt for anything - not even poor rabbits :). To live in peace with nature - without killing. I would only kill time :) Or play as a total vegetarian - not eating meat at all - even canned fish :) And then see how long I will live on the Interloper level :)
I have to play that sometime. Or maybe some of you have already tried to play like that?

[dbmurph22]

This turned into a really interesting thread - thanks everyone for jumping in.

5 hours ago, jeffpeng said:

I've been thinking about some in between game mode for some time now, since I actually dislike half the game not being in the game on Interloper. Technically there are a few things that are easier on Interloper than they are on Stalker, so maybe one can counteract this. Stalker has more wolves, for example. Fatigue is lower on Interloper. And even Interloper settings have a loot of room to balance out having access to more loot, like reducing wolf fear, or elevating smell range. Basically bringing the "good" parts of Deadman to counteract the availability of premium loot. I gotta think about this some more.

 

3 hours ago, jeffpeng said:

I'm apparently really not very capable of expressing my thought in a coherent manner. The basic idea is: add full loot, like Stalker level, then crank other difficulties so long until it "feels" comparatively challenging. Since the cold will be much less of a problem with better clothing in the game, the challenge would have to come from other factors, like higher resource consumption, lower/no rest recovery, more dangerous predators. Now that I think of it .... that sounds a lot like that "Birchman Safari" setting someone used to play on Youtube. Basically Deadman, just with decent loot and birchbark tea.

 

I understand what you're trying to find especially since it seems a lot of additional content and gameplay that Hinterland gives is more in line with sort of Stalker play - which is sensible given the player base and that intrinsically it involves other elements it's created (instead of the lack thereof).  Loonsloon did Birchman Safari and yeah putting Stalker loot on Birchman or Deadman (or NOGOA as they apparently say now) can get close to that.  Given this is a thread about "house rules" the other ways are to limit yourself in some custom way like Outerloper or region limitation.  I recently did a run ("Dead Dwarf") I recorded on Stalker loot, but with Deadman recovery (and most the other deadman settings, I think), and "sort of" Outerloper.  I could go in basements, caves and bunkers, but no other buildings.  It was trying to get that challenge and balance but with the additional items and bunkers.

Birchman safari and my Dead Dwarf, though, both ran into similar problems.  The Stalker loot is so good and once you get past some perilous early game (especially in my case, plus Loonsloon is just very good), the declining weather is still no match for the elite clothing you get.  Plus, while Stalker adds elements to the game, you close the need for some crafting, like the clothing.

I think this will be more achievable once mods get cooking and more easily adopted in the game.  I'm not sure if the custom settings will ever get made to give that feel, though maybe with giving a few ore individual options like UUA said (effectively like making Gunloper, but with a hatchet/knife).  Elements like making the weather decline even more, having it affect indoor temperatures, modifying torch rules, and maybe introducing other decay elements (increased item, structure, increased animal) can help the curve there.  Also fixing things like Cooking 5 - if I recall you had some really good thoughts on that in the past, Jeff.

 

2 hours ago, UpUpAway95 said:

There are players doing that now as you've noted.  Again, my apologies for interpreting your post as wanting Hinterland to add a "blanket" setting.  Still, I'd like some more options to add in individual items while maintaining the Baseline Resources Low setting and, alternatively, to turn off individual items when playing with a Baseline Resources Medium setting (which is where it is in Stalker mode).  The more options, the better... leaving the interpretation of how "difficult" the challenge becomes to the individual player.

 

I enjoyed the conversation - yeah, I think this would help too, but it's hard to see them adding much in the way of individual items.  That's a lot on the menu!  It's probably going to be mods.  I can possibly see them doing something like the hatchet and knife (though I think some have been asking this for a long time).  But cranking up other difficulty, using Interloper base (or Gunloper if you add the guns), and then thinking hey I shouldn't add the Expedition Parka, but let me click "yes" to the Cowichan Sweater would be a cool option.

-----------------

9 hours ago, Salty Crackers said:

My settings are based on Interloper, with base resources set to medium, no at-rest condition recovery, no cabin fever, no birch bark tea, decay rate set to high and rifle spawns enabled. Is it easier than Interloper? Probably. But with no at-rest condition recovery or tea, I have to carefully manage my condition, only gaining around 10-12% a day when all needs are positive. It makes the game more enjoyable for me than being able to gain half my condition back every night.

 

7 hours ago, jeffpeng said:

But yeah, in the end: everyone plays their game 😉

 

Sounds like a fun time, Salty Crackers.  I like the mix.  And yes I echo the final bit there.

[UpUpAway95]

2 hours ago, jeffpeng said:

Oh, sure, that would be nice in any case. But I feel Hinterland as bigger fish to fry for the time being 😉

Agreed.  Depending on how many items they might also deem worthy of a toggle, it could also be potentially a more cumbersome task than I'm imagining and might not even be possible without sacrificing performance on some platforms.  Of course, all those things to consider are balls that are clearly in Hinterland's court... not mine.  The bottom line is I enjoy what they've done so far and I look forward with enthusiasm to seeing what they'll do in the future.  Cheers.

 

Mods will be a good solution for some, but will not likely be available on all platforms.

Edited December 14, 2021 by UpUpAway95

[Sir Major M.oos.E Sr.]

9 hours ago, Lord of the Long Dark said:

  People don’t realize- interloper is not just the hardest level- it’s an entirely different game altogether. If you soften interloper even a little, it’s not interloper it’s stalker. 

Oh good Lord..

take a deep breath everything will be fine.

the whole game of interloper was killed anyway when it became possible to add coal to the fire right away. 
so just breathe everything will be fine ☠️

[Sir Major M.oos.E Sr.]

3 hours ago, PiterZ said:

I really liked this thread. I am impressed with all your ideas. They are really very inspiring. I've been going to play Interloper level for a while without even creating a bow. Only eat what I find. Don't hunt for anything - not even poor rabbits :). To live in peace with nature - without killing. I would only kill time :) Or play as a total vegetarian - not eating meat at all - even canned fish :) And then see how long I will live on the Interloper level :)
I have to play that sometime. Or maybe some of you have already tried to play like that?

This is a nice way to play the game. I often play that way. You can stay  alive for quiet a while even well fed. If you starve yourself you could reach day 500 i think. Never tried to get that far. Thats too boring.

others things you could do are a naked run or at least no crafted clothing, collect all cracker boxes and beef jerkies, travel in any weather or goat down every rope climb ☠️

[dbmurph22]

 

23 minutes ago, Sir Major M.oos.E Sr. said:

Oh good Lord..

take a deep breath everything will be fine.

the whole game of interloper was killed anyway when it became possible to add coal to the fire right away. 
so just breathe everything will be fine ☠️

Yeah, great point.  Not having to wait the 20 minutes was a massive change.  Think of how much it impacts people doing Deadman runs, too.  I think it really, really affected that.  All those moments of fractional loss from temp that added up, now gone or minimized.  Not to say it's still not difficult, but having coal get going right away was a big shift.

However, I have noticed that the fire is getting hotter from the coal a bit slower?  Is that just me?

Edited December 14, 2021 by dbmurph22

[Lord of the Long Dark]

9 hours ago, Salty Crackers said:

No, it's not easier than Stalker. Most settings are at Interloper level, while some are at Stalker level. By definition, the difficulty lies somewhere between the two modes. I explicitly said the difficulty is probably less than Interloper, depending on how you factor in the very slow condition recovery versus the fast recovery of Interloper.

The reason I use medium base loot availability is that I want to be able to find knives and hatchets, but there is no individual setting for that. Otherwise, I would be on low base loot availability. With Interloper settings for loose items and empty container chance, I get a lot less loot than in Stalker (while still more than Interloper) with the exception of the cargo containers, which is why I have the house rule of leaving behind half the loot in the cargo containers.

YOU REMOVED CABIN FEVER LOL!!!!!!

  “I removed health recovery while standing but I can just wait inside indefinitely til can rest when tired” lol. 
  Yeah. I guess that’s Basically interloper hahaha. 

Edited December 14, 2021 by Lord of the Long Dark