Can you make a car work in Long Dark

[StumpRumpel]

My theory is that an emp blast hit an exceptionally isolated area, thus frying all electronics. All electronics that arent shielded wouldn't be fried. Or maybe you need a specific type of shielding to protect electronics from whatever happened. Hence why underground stuff doesn't regardless of being protected from a standard emp. This may be why cars don't really work  but in theory if you could make something from scratch and shield it from whatever is happening before connecting any power (or rely on the aurora to power the machine and only drive at night) then it may be feasable.

[Guest jeffpeng]

You could run a very old diesel without electricity, yeah. In theory. Provided the fuel injection and pump is mechanical (which is pretty much extinct in remotely modern vehicles) and you get enough torque and momentum into the engine - which is probably the biggest problem, and easiest facilitated by rolling the car down a hill with the clutch engaged. However I guess with anything approaching the 1990's you'd be hard outta luck.

However, if the actual question is

On 5/29/2021 at 9:50 AM, Michael1986 said:

with enough mechanical skill make your Car work nothing else about the car matters but can you make a functioning Car without electricity

The answer is yes. Like I said you'd have to have fully mechanical fuel injection and delivery, and have to start and preheat it manually in temperatures like the ones you find on Great Bear, but if you wanted to design and construct a car that works without electricity, that is very much possible.

Although: if you just wanted a mostly EMP proof vehicle, you'd be fine building a relatively normal car without the electronics. A simple dynamo for lights and charging a down-to-earth lead battery, a simple electric motor and a few wires to preheat the engine. That really is everything you "really" need to have a relatively street worthy apocalypse mobile, and an EMP shouldn't phase it too much. If you get hold of a few quality guitar amps (those with real vacuum tubes) you might even be able to construct a working radio that will survive an EMP. Add armor and weapons fitting your type of mass extinction event. Take notes from Mad Max if needed.

No idea how such a vehicle would fare with the Aurora phenomenon since what the Aurora actually is is mostly unknown. If it is what I think it is and what is, in my opinion, the only sound explanation for all the things we do see, then yes, this would in all likelihood be sufficient to construct a TLD proof car.

As a side note: I always find it fascinating to realize how fragile our technology has become. I wonder how the world would look like if at some point we would have - as a society - valued durability over convenience. Probably a lot more like people a hundred years ago thought it would look like. Curious.

[Glflegolas]

8 hours ago, jeffpeng said:

You could run a very old diesel without electricity, yeah. In theory. Provided the fuel injection and pump is mechanical (which is pretty much extinct in remotely modern vehicles) and you get enough torque and momentum into the engine - which is probably the biggest problem, and easiest facilitated by rolling the car down a hill with the clutch engaged. However I guess with anything approaching the 1990's you'd be hard outta luck.

However, if the actual question is

The answer is yes. Like I said you'd have to have fully mechanical fuel injection and delivery, and have to start and preheat it manually in temperatures like the ones you find on Great Bear, but if you wanted to design and construct a car that works without electricity, that is very much possible.

Although: if you just wanted a mostly EMP proof vehicle, you'd be fine building a relatively normal car without the electronics. A simple dynamo for lights and charging a down-to-earth lead battery, a simple electric motor and a few wires to preheat the engine. That really is everything you "really" need to have a relatively street worthy apocalypse mobile, and an EMP shouldn't phase it too much. If you get hold of a few quality guitar amps (those with real vacuum tubes) you might even be able to construct a working radio that will survive an EMP. Add armor and weapons fitting your type of mass extinction event. Take notes from Mad Max if needed.

No idea how such a vehicle would fare with the Aurora phenomenon since what the Aurora actually is is mostly unknown. If it is what I think it is and what is, in my opinion, the only sound explanation for all the things we do see, then yes, this would in all likelihood be sufficient to construct a TLD proof car.

As a side note: I always find it fascinating to realize how fragile our technology has become. I wonder how the world would look like if at some point we would have - as a society - valued durability over convenience. Probably a lot more like people a hundred years ago thought it would look like. Curious.

Maybe the best vehicle to use in the Quiet Apocalypse isn't actually a car? Instead, an old lawn tractor or snowmobile (why aren't there snowmobiles on Great Bear?) from back in the day when they used points for ignition might be a better choice. The Cub Cadets from the 1960s and 1970s are practically bulletproof and can be almost entirely rebuilt with nothing more than a set of wrenches.

The largest problem with any non-diesel vehicle would be fuel. It's very hard to make gasoline or a suitable substitute yourself. A diesel can run on vegetable oil, fish oil, turpentine, or nearly anything flammable of the correct viscosity. From a fuel POV, it might make the most sense to try and fire up an old steam locomotive, as there's loads of coal on Great Bear, and, in a pinch, wood will also work just fine. You might need to make some repairs to the Raven Falls trestle and pull some derailed wagons off the tracks to get very far though... and it would take a lot of coal to keep the train going.

[Guest jeffpeng]

1 hour ago, Glflegolas said:

From a fuel POV, it might make the most sense to try and fire up an old steam locomotive, as there's loads of coal on Great Bear, and, in a pinch, wood will also work just fine. You might need to make some repairs to the Raven Falls trestle and pull some derailed wagons off the tracks to get very far though... and it would take a lot of coal to keep the train going.

Pushing wagons of a track? Good luck I guess.

But if we are talking fuel ... in the early 40s, back when Germany was busy waging war with the world, and subsequently (and luckily) was short on everything, there were some cars that ran on what I can only loosely translate as "wood gas". You basically "burn" wood in an oxygen limited space halfway through, which yields - as burnable compnents - mostly carbon monoxide, hydrogen and some methane. Hella inefficient, polluting as hell, and what you get for fuel cannot reasonably compare to actual gasoline, diesel, plain methane gas or possibly even vegetable oils. But ..... it works.

[Glflegolas]

If you have a fully operational steam locomotive, pulling/pushing railroad cars out of your way is not going to be a major problem; a loco can exert 10-20+ tons of force. Even if they're derailed, you could use the cowcatcher on the loco to push them out of the way. On that note, I seriously wonder how so many train cars derailed/fell over, and how they're scattered all over the mainline, it's rather unusual for a train to break apart like that. Bottom line; fixing the bridges and the tracks where they've been covered up by landslides would be a much bigger chore than moving a few railcars out of the way.

Due to the generally decayed state of Great Bear's infastructure, and the challenges of getting fuel, a diesel-powered tractor would probably be your best choice of vehicle. I'm sure that you can make that run off wood gas or something you can find on Great Bear.

[Guest jeffpeng]

31 minutes ago, Glflegolas said:

If you have a fully operational steam locomotive, pulling/pushing railroad cars out of your way is not going to be a major problem

Uh ... yeah. Of course. Why would you pull them off the track with your bare hands if you had a freaking locomotive handy. Silly me. 😅

31 minutes ago, Glflegolas said:

On that note, I seriously wonder how so many train cars derailed/fell over, and how they're scattered all over the mainline, it's rather unusual for a train to break apart like that.

I "think" that's due to the earthquakes that supposedly ravaged the island. I mean the lore is a bit shaky/sketchy here. There are spots that look like they have been just hit over and over with massive tectonic activity, like FM. Then again you barely see anything of that in other areas, like the adjacent Bleak Inlet. Plus .... trains falling over, but sketchy overlooks on little more than wooden stakes are fine? Curious. Maye there really is an evil über-moose running around the island knocking over trains just to flex. At this point it's a guess as good as any.

 

Edited June 13, 2021 by jeffpeng

[Glflegolas]

9 hours ago, jeffpeng said:

Uh ... yeah. Of course. Why would you pull them off the track with your bare hands if you had a freaking locomotive handy. Silly me. 😅

I "think" that's due to the earthquakes that supposedly ravaged the island. I mean the lore is a bit shaky/sketchy here. There are spots that look like they have been just hit over and over with massive tectonic activity, like FM. Then again you barely see anything of that in other areas, like the adjacent Bleak Inlet. Plus .... trains falling over, but sketchy overlooks on little more than wooden stakes are fine? Curious. Maye there really is an evil über-moose running around the island knocking over trains just to flex. At this point it's a guess as good as any.

If there was one derailed train that would make sense, but having groups of railcars (some derailed, some not) scattered along the mainline is something I can't fully explain.

However, as for how the trains derailed, I think we see a clue from Story Mode. 

-minor spoiler alert-

Will tries to escape the Old Bear by getting into a railway speeder. The Old Bear charges at it, knocking it off the tracks and rolling it down an embankment.

-spoiler end-

So maybe it wasn't the earthquake at all that caused the derailments -- it was the Old Bear all along! But, I'm starting to get some ideas for how The Hunted, Part 3 could work out... how about getting that locomotive engine in Broken Railroad started during the aurora, attaching the bear spear to it, luring the bear onto the tracks with a flare, and running him down with the train?

[Guest jeffpeng]

1 minute ago, Glflegolas said:

Will tries to escape the Old Bear by getting into a railway speeder. The Old Bear charges at it, knocking it off the tracks and rolling it down an embankment.

Right. That happens. Been a while since I played story mode. But yeah, apparently.... it was the Old Bear all along. Ha!

2 minutes ago, Glflegolas said:

I'm starting to get some ideas for how The Hunted, Part 3 could work out... how about getting that locomotive engine in Broken Railroad started during the aurora, attaching the bear spear to it, luring the bear onto the tracks with a flare, and running him down with the train?

🤣 I'm not sure if this is actually brilliant or just amazingly hilarious.

[acada]

If I remember it well, there is very old tractor in Pleasant Valley near Thomson Crossing. It is located near the store. If I am not mistaken, tractors from 1950 had still possibility to crank start them manually. Fuel could be fish oil. My father in law used all kinds of oils in his diesel car from 1980.

Of course you would have to start a fire under the tractor first. I think it is common morning for some people living far north. I have seen a video of russian guy going to work. He had to thaw the fuel by making fire under his Lada car.

[Glflegolas]

Here is a Kubota B6200 tractor from the 1980s which I own. This one is powered by diesel fuel, has a mechanical lift pump and a mechanical injection pump. So, if you could get the tractor running somehow, it would definitely stay running.

I have wondered if the tractor could be started without a battery, and my guess is the answer is.... yes? You wouldn't have glow plugs, so that might make starting challenging unless you pre-heated the block and/or the fuel. Once that's done, you could put the tractor in low-range and start it rolling down a hill with the clutch depressed and the compression released, then, once at walking speed, you'd throw it in gear and give the engine compression. I don't know if this would make the engine spin or just lock the wheels, however...I have never experimented for myself.

[hozz1235]

I rode dirt bikes for decades.  Up until recently, they were all kick-start.  Sometimes they could be stubborn to start, so we would get rolling on a hill, pull the clutch, put it into 2nd or 3rd gear (less compression) and pop the clutch to start it.

[UTC-10]

Kick starting anything probably depends on how much mass that has to be turned and how fast.  Since diesels use compression to provide the "spark" to ignite the fuel in the cylinder that might be problematic if the glow plugs were not operating. In the cold weather, lubricants might get gooey.  Wheels might not turn so well.  Also the tractor has to be on a slope sufficiently steep (and clear) to get it moving at a reasonable clip to do the kick start attempt.  Do not know if it could be made to work. 

When my anemic German Ford car battery died (12v unloaded, 2V under load) I was on a slope in a parking lot and a short distance, matter of several feet, was enough to kick the engine over (manual transmission) and the spark plugs to ignite the fuel mixture.  Of course, I went to get a new battery as soon as possible.  

 

[Bean]

If you’re going to start a diesel engine with low or no battery, it’s helpful to put some starting fluid in the air intake.  This has very low vapor point and is much more easily ignited through compression than diesel fuel.  So having that ready to burn first gives the engine a few dozen revolutions to come up to speed, get its fuel pump running, and start burning diesel.  
I know this from personal experiences.  

[acada]

I have another thought about already present cars. Almost all have bonnet, isnt it? Just remove the bonnet, make some holes for ropes and you have a sled. And I must say great one. As kids we found two bonnets laying somewhere. Took them on the slope and what a ride. It was hard to steer, but we were brave and kinda stupid then. (now I am only stupid  )

This is now mostly irrelevant in the game, since we should get travois. But still sled from bonnet to cary weight.

[hozz1235]

10 minutes ago, acada said:

I have another thought about already present cars. Almost all have bonnet, isnt it? Just remove the bonnet, make some holes for ropes and you have a sled. And I must say great one. As kids we found two bonnets laying somewhere. Took them on the slope and what a ride. It was hard to steer, but we were brave and kinda stupid then. (now I am only stupid  )

This is now mostly irrelevant in the game, since we should get travois. But still sled from bonnet to cary weight.

Bonnet = Hood?

[acada]

@hozz1235 Oh yes. I am from Czech Republic. My teachers were mostly British. Bisquit and tea, you know.  

[acada]

And about running diesel engine. Once I went to cottage it had a generator. It was powered by tractor engine. It was not easy task to start it, but it was possible in one man. First you have to turn big metal wheel. It was disconected from the engine. When you had enough momentum in the wheel, there was some autoclutch or something, which connected the wheel with engine and started it. It was not very safe. The crank was in some spring powered teeth. When the engine started it should suffice just let the crank  go and it should disengage. Sometimes it did not. Rotating crank was very scary.

Anyway the engine was in the basement with temperature around -5°C. No preheating necessary in this condition. But I do not doubt it would be in -20°C and lower.

[Glflegolas]

23 hours ago, Bean said:

If you’re going to start a diesel engine with low or no battery, it’s helpful to put some starting fluid in the air intake.  This has very low vapor point and is much more easily ignited through compression than diesel fuel.  So having that ready to burn first gives the engine a few dozen revolutions to come up to speed, get its fuel pump running, and start burning diesel.  
I know this from personal experiences.  

Sometimes you can ether-lock an engine, especially a small one. A quick sniff can work wonders though!