Additional Tools and Transportation

[Buckets524]

As far as tools go, I think a mechanical watch that requires maintenance would be awesome. Low condition could make time-keeping inaccurate. Survival mode could have option to start with watch, or not. Wintermute could begin with the watch inoperative and needing repair. The sun/moon diagram could possibly be removed or have an option to have it, or not.

A compass that does not work during the northern lights. The benefit this confers to the player could be offset by including an option to disable the player blip on the maps.

Shotguns. I appreciate that the Canadian setting means no assault rifles and overall less firearms than the US. Shotguns are allowed for hunting and home defense, and I imagine they would be pretty prevalent in the game’s locale.

 

Transportation:

Skis and snowshoes. I know this has been discussed quite a bit. They are tried and true ways of getting around. The weight of skis are a drawback, as they would lessen the player’s ability to carry as many items. Skis could come in cross country and downhill varieties. Snowshoes are not the fastest. All would require maintenance.

Sleds. This has also been talked about a lot. I think the potential change to gameplay balance could be mitigated by having sleds be slow and exhausting, as well as being unwieldy on hills and not viable on all terrain. Sleds are extremely common, but aren't necessarily as easy as someone might imagine. I don’t think animals should be able to pull the sleds. Training for sled dogs must begin as pups, and wolves would never be a viable option. Horses are not of use in the snow.

 

I am curious what others in the community think of these ideas.

Edited April 9, 2020 by Buckets524

[Buckets524]

*correction: horses are fine in the snow, apparently. That would be cool, though animals are crazy.

ice picks would be cool, too. Allows player to climb up, which ropes don’t. It could be riskier and trigger one of the danger mode interactions where the player must tap a key quickly.

Edited April 9, 2020 by Buckets524

[ManicManiac]

It seems like you're new to the forum, so on that note:

Welcome to the wilderness. 

As to the topic(s):
Most of the the ideas you put forth have been discussed quite a bit in the past, and there is a lot of good discussion around them.  They make really good reads and offer a range of perspectives on these ideas.  Personally, I'm not really in favor of the ideas you put forth (for reasons I've posted in many of the threads that came before on the topics).  Instead of repeating them all again on this thread... If I may offer one quick recommendation:

On 10/26/2019 at 1:26 AM, ManicManiac said:

I would just recommend using the search function a little bit, this way we can get some idea of what's been discussed in the past.  It's never bad to resurrect ideas, but I think it's better when we have something new to add or a different take on what's been discussed before.  Sometimes the best way to know, is to look up what's been posted in the past to gain more background on what we want to talk about.  I try to do this before posting my ideas, that way I know I'm not just re-treading familiar territory (so to speak).

 

[Addendum]
To clarify, I'm not trying to be condescending or insulting in any way (not in the slightest) - I'm genuinely just trying to be helpful.

Edited April 9, 2020 by ManicManiac
Edited for clarity.

[Archonax]

14 hours ago, Buckets524 said:

As far as tools go, I think a mechanical watch that requires maintenance would be awesome. Low condition could make time-keeping inaccurate. Survival mode could have option to start with watch, or not. Wintermute could begin with the watch inoperative and needing repair. The sun/moon diagram could possibly be removed or have an option to have it, or not.

I simply dislike this idea. Not because of the addition of another item to maintain, but because it would be redundant and in my opinion a waste of prioritization of the dev's time.

14 hours ago, Buckets524 said:

A compass that does not work during the northern lights. The benefit this confers to the player could be offset by including an option to disable the player blip on the maps.

I believe the devs have given their opinion on compasses in the past -- while they are a useful survival tool, the inclusion of a compass would make the player less likely to rely on building knowledge of an area for navigation and thereby reduce their involvement/immersion in the experience. I agree.

14 hours ago, Buckets524 said:

Shotguns. I appreciate that the Canadian setting means no assault rifles and overall less firearms than the US. Shotguns are allowed for hunting and home defense, and I imagine they would be pretty prevalent in the game’s locale.

While I do enjoy firearms, I don't see any benefit to adding a new firearm to the game. I'd be loath to have this survival/exploration/wilderness game turn into a 'shooty-shooty animals go poof' production.

14 hours ago, Buckets524 said:

Transportation:

Skis and snowshoes. I know this has been discussed quite a bit. They are tried and true ways of getting around. The weight of skis are a drawback, as they would lessen the player’s ability to carry as many items. Skis could come in cross country and downhill varieties. Snowshoes are not the fastest. All would require maintenance.

Sleds. This has also been talked about a lot. I think the potential change to gameplay balance could be mitigated by having sleds be slow and exhausting, as well as being unwieldy on hills and not viable on all terrain. Sleds are extremely common, but aren't necessarily as easy as someone might imagine. I don’t think animals should be able to pull the sleds. Training for sled dogs must begin as pups, and wolves would never be a viable option. Horses are not of use in the snow.

In a similar vein to the compass reasoning -- walking in the quiet is a large part of the 'game feel' that The Long Dark has. In my opinion, having faster modes of transportation would negatively impact the world's presence.

[Buckets524]

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To clarify, I'm not trying to be condescending or insulting in any way (not in the slightest) - I'm genuinely just trying to be helpful. 

I don’t find it condescending at all. There are a lot of discussions that have been visited and revisited so many times that there is almost nothing more to add. I was aware of threads about watches, sleds, and guns (but they suggested more rifles, which is unnecessary since the .303 is more than sufficient and a very appropriate ‘only long gun’ to have)

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Welcome to the wilderness.  

Thank you I certainly feel welcome and not only do i love this game, but also really appreciate the community so far. I like how passionately players are involved in the game’s continued maturation. I really like open alphas and betas for this reason, and especially games which release with the intention of implementing some extraordinarily significant updates.

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I simply dislike this idea. Not because of the addition of another item to maintain, but because it would be redundant and in my opinion a waste of prioritization of the dev's time.

I can understand this point. I figured it would be a realistic addition due to the ubiquitous nature of watches, but there is already a sufficient mechanic in place to judge the time. I guess I always felt odd sleeping two hours at a time until day, but that is precisely what I do when camping. Usually I have to keep the fire going, anyway.

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I believe the devs have given their opinion on compasses in the past -- while they are a useful survival tool, the inclusion of a compass would make the player less likely to rely on building knowledge of an area for navigation and thereby reduce their involvement/immersion in the experience. I agree.

I understand the focus on navigation by landmarks. I guess I feel like the immersion is interrupted by use of a map that has my exact location at all times. Part of survival in the wild is using one’s ability to read a map. If I could get turned around without such simple recourse, or plan my routes with awareness of a real risk of getting lost, it would reinforce my use of landmarks even more.

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While I do enjoy firearms, I don't see any benefit to adding a new firearm to the game. I'd be loath to have this survival/exploration/wilderness game turn into a 'shooty-shooty animals go poof' production.

While I whole heartedly agree that the game would be pretty much ruined by a huge arsenal of firearms, shotguns plat such a different role than rifles. Small game and birds are their main uses. However, seeing as fowl is not among the usable species, it is really unnecessary. If birds could be hunted, then the relevance if the shotgun would be much greater.

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In a similar vein to the compass reasoning -- walking in the quiet is a large part of the 'game feel' that The Long Dark has. In my opinion, having faster modes of transportation would negatively impact the world's presence.

Yep, I totally understand that point. I think I just love skiing and the idea of cross country skiing while living off the land is pretty appealing 😛 it is such a different direction that the devs would be better served playing to the games current set of strengths and addressing actual deficits. A sled is also a broken idea - the player can already carry more weight at the expense of movement speed. I realize while playing that it is unrealistic to always remain unencumbered, and that adds to the gameplay in a pretty vital way.

 

thank you both for your replies! I love the game and am excited for the additions that will be made, even if none of them are on this list. Looking back at the updates over time I have developed an exceptional trust for Hinterland. They will continue to do things right while staying true to the game and honoring community input.

[Archonax]

12 hours ago, Buckets524 said:

I guess I feel like the immersion is interrupted by use of a map that has my exact location at all times. Part of survival in the wild is using one’s ability to read a map.

Ah! You must be talking about story mode -- I forgot that it had a traditional game map. Give Survival mode a try -- the map doesn't exist until you 'create' it by surveying with charcoal in multiple areas, you don't get a placement marker that shows where you are, and you don't even know which way you're facing without referencing landmarks. I think it'll give you the experience you're looking for.

[Buckets524]

10 hours ago, Archonax said:

Ah! You must be talking about story mode -- I forgot that it had a traditional game map. Give Survival mode a try -- the map doesn't exist until you 'create' it by surveying with charcoal in multiple areas, you don't get a placement marker that shows where you are, and you don't even know which way you're facing without referencing landmarks. I think it'll give you the experience you're looking for.

I actually just gave survival a try to take a break from missions and all that. I am glad I did the story as a primer but survival is a real challenge. Especially with a low gear quality at start - making a fire, navigation, and pretty much ever other thing is much much harder.

i thought it was a bit funny when I looked at the map and realized it was exactly how I imagined it when I wrote my suggestion post x)

[Moll]

mechanical watch has little use in this game except you want it implemented as acces to present sun/moon wheel in game. That means no watch in inventory = no wheel in right top corner. So you would be forced to determine day time purely by light conditions in game.

[ToAsT]

On 4/9/2020 at 7:35 AM, Buckets524 said:

Transportation:

Skis and snowshoes. I know this has been discussed quite a bit. They are tried and true ways of getting around. The weight of skis are a drawback, as they would lessen the player’s ability to carry as many items. Skis could come in cross country and downhill varieties. Snowshoes are not the fastest. All would require maintenance.

I think snowshoes would be a valuable addition to the game if they allowed the player to walk across weak ice without falling through. The downside would be extreme mobility penalties (unable to run). Some hardwood, hide, and cured leather to craft one, perhaps.

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Sleds. This has also been talked about a lot. I think the potential change to gameplay balance could be mitigated by having sleds be slow and exhausting, as well as being unwieldy on hills and not viable on all terrain. Sleds are extremely common, but aren't necessarily as easy as someone might imagine. I don’t think animals should be able to pull the sleds. Training for sled dogs must begin as pups, and wolves would never be a viable option. Horses are not of use in the snow.

I am curious what others in the community think of these ideas.

It would be nice to carry a lot more stuff, but with the effort already placed into the moose-hide satchel, and all the difficulties around pathfinding, visuals, etc, I doubt they'll give us a sled. It also goes against some of the game's apparent philosophy of making difficult decisions around what to carry and what not to.

Edited April 19, 2020 by ToAsT

[ProsPex]

6 hours ago, ToAsT said:

I think snowshoes would be a valuable addition to the game if they allowed the player to walk across weak ice without falling through. The downside would be extreme mobility penalties (unable to run).

In the future, there could be areas of the maps covered in deep powered snow and only accessible when wearing snowshoes....  if the player enters the area while not wearing snowshoes, the player sinks waist deep in the snow and becomes exhausted as they try moving forward. This would allow specific areas of maps to be entered only after the player has crafted or found snowshoes.

Edited April 19, 2020 by ProsPex

[Moll]

nice, but TLD doesnt accumulate snow and there is no easy way to explain and differentiate some areas where it would.

[akodo1]

On 4/9/2020 at 6:35 AM, Buckets524 said:

Transportation:

Skis and snowshoes. I know this has been discussed quite a bit. They are tried and true ways of getting around. The weight of skis are a drawback, as they would lessen the player’s ability to carry as many items. Skis could come in cross country and downhill varieties. Snowshoes are not the fastest. All would require maintenance.

Snow Shoes and to a degree skis are designed  to allow you to walk on top of snow without sinking in.  If you've ever tried to walk in deep snow it is exhausting and you get wet from pockets to ankles.   That kind of snow isn't implemented in TLD so snowshoes don't really fit.

[LissaJ]

I realize this topic has come up before (probably hundreds of times), but I was just thinking how odd it is that we know how long (for example), a fire will last (say 1 hour and 50 minutes), but we don't have any way of keeping time.  I was also thinking, it would be very cool if the character had a watch that also had an altimeter on it.  Not necessarily for any practical purpose, I suppose.  I was just thinking it would be kind of cool to know my elevation now and then.  To be honest, I'm not terribly familiar with altimeters, so I have no idea whether the geomagnetic phenomenon would prevent it from working.  Maybe it would only work during the northern lights, like electricity, or perhaps stop working when the sky lit up.  

It also just seems kind of *odd* that a pilot wouldn't wear a watch, even if (as the OP said), it didn't work at the beginning of the game, either due to the geomagnetic phenomenon (which you don't actually know about at the beginning of the game), the storm that caused the crash, or the crash itself.  Just a tiny bit of realism that could be added, I guess.

[odizzido]

I am just going to mention that nothing that relies on magnetic fields or electricity works in the world of TLD. This would include compasses and the majority of watches.

I would actually be in favour of introducing mechanical watches and removing the time wheel we have now. It would be a little thing you could find to help you make better decisions. I think it could push players to pay more attention to the game world, either the sun or a watch, and less attention to a ghostly wheel of time knowledge. It would be cool if our character could actually put their watch up so we read the time off of it.

[peteloud]

On 4/9/2020 at 9:04 PM, Buckets524 said:

ice picks would be cool, too. Allows player to climb up, which ropes don’t. It could be riskier and trigger one of the danger mode interactions where the player must tap a key quickly.

This is the first time I have seen this suggested.  I think it a great idea.  This could open up some new, but risky routes in TWM.  

In one or two of the Lara Croft games there are some superb ice climbing challenges, although the details in those are for game companies much bigger and richer than HTL.

[odizzido]

If the ice pick climbing were ever implemented I would hope that it's done properly. Adding QTEs is something I would be adamantly against. That said you could blur the line to it being okay for me, similar to how it was done in the newer tomb raider.

In the newer tomb raider when you needed to "re-pick" the ice you would use the same key that you normally use to pick the ice. That feels a lot better than many other games with QTEs where you have to press some random and unrelated button to not die. Like if a wolf attacked in LTD and it pops a line up saying "press the [ key in 0.5 seconds to not die" that would be just awful. So awful.

 

edit----------

Also since it came up can I just say that the first newer tomb raider intro level with that cave thing was bad. It was just so bad. All those QTE and button mashing parts. What a terrible way to start out a game. It's a great game but the intro stage just sucked.

Edited May 27, 2020 by odizzido