Better Food Poisoning

[Fuarian]

Makes no sense how I can eat all of the sardines at Last Resort and somehow not get sick. Any food item with the "mouldy" or "banged up" description on it should 100% give you food poisoning because I dare you to eat mouldy food and try to not get sick. It makes no sense how we can eat all this low condition food and not get sick. Basically the chance of food poisoning should be increased.

Also, food poisoning should have more debilitating effects. Like lower energy, quicker freezing, blurred vision (if it gets bad), longer action times, quicker thirst and hunger, etc... 

[UpUpAway95]

40 minutes ago, Fuarian said:

Makes no sense how I can eat all of the sardines at Last Resort and somehow not get sick. Any food item with the "mouldy" or "banged up" description on it should 100% give you food poisoning because I dare you to eat mouldy food and try to not get sick. It makes no sense how we can eat all this low condition food and not get sick. Basically the chance of food poisoning should be increased.

Also, food poisoning should have more debilitating effects. Like lower energy, quicker freezing, blurred vision (if it gets bad), longer action times, quicker thirst and hunger, etc... 

You were lucky.  I got sick three times on three consecutive cans, using up all my antibiotics and consuming 30 hours of time sleeping to heal myself... before i swore off eating them altogether.  It's a game, so I'm OK with it being a random chance, escalating as the food gets lower in condition but never 100%... elsewise, no one would ever even attempt to eat it and it might as well not be in the game at all.

[ajb1978]

1 hour ago, Fuarian said:

 because I dare you to eat mouldy food and try to not get sick. It makes no sense how we can eat all this low condition food and not get sick.

Well in reality you can eat moldy food and not get sick.  It's not advisable of course, and you really should cut the moldy bits out, but I mean I've eaten moldy bread before, not noticed it was moldy until I was like halfway through the sandwich, and didn't get sick.  Also, don't forget that penicillin is a kind of mold!

In life, as in the game, it's all in how lucky you are.  (And in how much moldy food you eat.)

[ThePancakeLady]

The only thing I would like to see changed with Food Poisoning, is to make eating 0% ruined food a 100% guarantee to give you FP. At all Cooking Skill Levels. Being able to do so in this game just makes no sense to me, at all. You could still get the calories (to maintain Well Fed), but you should be sick as a dog in return. 

[Guest jeffpeng]

8 hours ago, UpUpAway95 said:

no one would ever even attempt to eat it and it might as well not be in the game at all.

^ This.

7 minutes ago, ThePancakeLady said:

The only thing I would like to see changed with Food Poisoning, is to make eating 0% ruined food a 100% guarantee to give you FP.

And ^ this.

Addendum: If @ThePancakeLady's suggestion is added, I literally have zero gripe with how the game is handling it now. If you make the punishment too high, the chance too high, or a combination of both, so much of the already scarce old-world food would get wasted. Depending on you settings contracting food poisoning can already be catastrophic.

I can see how food poisoning can be disregarded as actually not that bad when you get it sitting at home and get sick from your dinner. Pop a Reishi, sleep it off. But let's say you are en route: For the 10 hours you are sick ... you don't recover health when sleeping. That's 10 lost hours. 10 extra hours you have to account for with food, water and, depending on where you have to cure your stomach, warmth. Snacking on the unsuspecting 49% can of sardines out in the wild with no shelter nearby and getting food poisoning can literally mean death if paired with just 45 minutes of freezing, or a stray wolf nibbling at your backside. Also: you rack up fatigue very fast, so if you still need to get somewhere and accept the condition loss as a neccessary evil, you will be suffering from fatigue as well in no time.

In my eyes that's already pretty severe for a bit of mouldy food that would usually just upset one or - if severe - both ends of your digestive tract a bit and mostly be fine after "discharging" it.

 

 

Edited December 18, 2019 by jeffpeng

[Enigma]

16 hours ago, Fuarian said:

I dare you to eat mouldy food and try to not get sick.

You can always cut of the piece or eat around it, but that would imply loosing a bit of food. Maybe in the future they will make it so the more mouldy the food is the less of it you can eat. 

[UpUpAway95]

9 hours ago, jeffpeng said:

^ This.

And ^ this.

Addendum: If @ThePancakeLady's suggestion is added, I literally have zero gripe with how the game is handling it now. If you make the punishment too high, the chance too high, or a combination of both, so much of the already scarce old-world food would get wasted. Depending on you settings contracting food poisoning can already be catastrophic.

I can see how food poisoning can be disregarded as actually not that bad when you get it sitting at home and get sick from your dinner. Pop a Reishi, sleep it off. But let's say you are en route: For the 10 hours you are sick ... you don't recover health when sleeping. That's 10 lost hours. 10 extra hours you have to account for with food, water and, depending on where you have to cure your stomach, warmth. Snacking on the unsuspecting 49% can of sardines out in the wild with no shelter nearby and getting food poisoning can literally mean death if paired with just 45 minutes of freezing, or a stray wolf nibbling at your backside. Also: you rack up fatigue very fast, so if you still need to get somewhere and accept the condition loss as a neccessary evil, you will be suffering from fatigue as well in no time.

In my eyes that's already pretty severe for a bit of mouldy food that would usually just upset one or - if severe - both ends of your digestive tract a bit and mostly be fine after "discharging" it.

 

 

I think 0% Condition (i.e. ruined) food should despawn.  If 1% condition has a 99% chance of causing food poisoning and one really needs the calories to stave off losing the well fed benefit, OK; but at 100% condition loss and 100% chance of food poisoning, I think it's not a debate and having that stuff lying around the world is just more that the game has to keep track off.  I'd rather let the processor shed the load at that point.

[Guest jeffpeng]

13 minutes ago, UpUpAway95 said:

I think 0% Condition (i.e. ruined) food should despawn.

I see your point, and actually it does despawn in containers, true. Probably.... it would be the more consistent way of doing it. Albeit there might be some issue with 0% items despawning in the world, or rather them not despawning. Probably too much things to track for the engine??

Plus, now that I think of it .... if it's bad enough to give you food poisoning, the net calorie value of that stuff would be negative with the amount stuff your body would "eject" from its digestive tract, so it should at least not yield any calories. That's btw the one other thing that would .... feel reasonable: If you would actually lose n amount or n percent of stored fluids and calories to simulate this.

Edited December 18, 2019 by jeffpeng

[UpUpAway95]

2 minutes ago, jeffpeng said:

I see your point, and actually it does despawn in containers, true. Probably.... it would be the more consistent way of doing it. Albeit there might be some issue with 0% items despawning in the world, or rather them not despawning. Probably too much things to track for the engine??

Plus, now that I think of it .... if it's bad enough to give you food poisoning, the net calorie value of that stuff would be negative with the amount stuff your body would "eject" from its digestive tract, so it should at least not yield any calories. That's btw the one other thing that would .... feel reasonable: If you would actually lose n amount or n percent of stored fluids and calories to simulate this.

Ruined food on carcasses despawns.  I'm really not sure why it just doesn't despawn if lying in the snow, cooked or uncooked.  It would also end the debate about people being able to cook ruined meat.

[Guest jeffpeng]

Just now, UpUpAway95 said:

Ruined food on carcasses despawns.  I'm really not sure why it just doesn't despawn if lying in the snow, cooked or uncooked.  It would also end the debate about people being able to cook ruined meat.

Ruined food on carcasses despawns, ruined food in containers despawns, yes. It doesn't despawn lying around in the world, and pretty sure this is because the engine would have to track all objects in the current scene each n amounts of ticks to properly decide when to despawn an item. I'm almost certain loot in containers only "despawns" once you open them. Carcasses don't despawn until you actually left the scene - meaning entered a house or a cave. Then on the next load they are not spawned again.

There are maybe 2 dozen mobs / carcasses on the map. But potentially hundreds or even thousands of items with people storing stuff in caves. Iterating all of them on each load might have been sacrificed in order to improve load times. So, I think it's a performance thing. Not saying this is ideal, on the contrary. And I think it would be fair that 0% food would "despawn" in your hands once you try to pick it up.

The real bummer here that TLD is on a real low performance engine, and then it also has to acommodate consoles that have the computational horsepower of a smart phone (PS4/Xbox One). There are so many things wrong with the game that could be solved if it wouldn't have to run on a potato.  

[UpUpAway95]

3 minutes ago, jeffpeng said:

Ruined food on carcasses despawns, ruined food in containers despawns, yes. It doesn't despawn lying around in the world, and pretty sure this is because the engine would have to track all objects in the current scene each n amounts of ticks to properly decide when to despawn an item. I'm almost certain loot in containers only "despawns" once you open them. Carcasses don't despawn until you actually left the scene - meaning entered a house or a cave. Then on the next load they are not spawned again.

There are maybe 2 dozen mobs / carcasses on the map. But potentially hundreds or even thousands of items with people storing stuff in caves. Iterating all of them on each load might have been sacrificed in order to improve load times. So, I think it's a performance thing. Not saying this is ideal, on the contrary. And I think it would be fair that 0% food would "despawn" in your hands once you try to pick it up.

The real bummer here that TLD is on a real low performance engine, and then it also has to acommodate consoles that have the computational horsepower of a smart phone (PS4/Xbox One). There are so many things wrong with the game that could be solved if it wouldn't have to run on a potato.  

The engine is tracking them anyways to assign them the "Ruined" flag.  Once they're gone, they're gone.  The engine at least doesn't have to track them any more.

[Guest jeffpeng]

2 minutes ago, UpUpAway95 said:

The engine is tracking them anyways to assign them the "Ruined" flag.

Pretty sure that is calculated on picking them up. As well as the condition probably is only calculated when interacting with them. I mean I could look up the code, but then again I'm not supposed to do that  

[UpUpAway95]

1 hour ago, jeffpeng said:

Pretty sure that is calculated on picking them up. As well as the condition probably is only calculated when interacting with them. I mean I could look up the code, but then again I'm not supposed to do that  

So, it could have it despawn after you set it down again once it assigns it the Ruined flag (just not while you're looking at it - just like the moose we've been chatting about on the other thread).  After it's despawned, it shouldn't have to keep tracked of it... elsewise, the save is going to run into trouble as the player kills and harvests more animals creating more carcasses that despawn eventually.

[ThePancakeLady]

I have no issues with 0% raw meat and fish not despawning. We can cook it back up to 50%, which, without Lvl 5 Cooking still puts it in to the "risky to eat" category of food. But store-bought foods and cooked meat and fish should be inedible or despawn. I would be good with that. IMHO, food in this game is not that rare, even in Interloper, if you make snares or fishing tackle, make a bow and arrows to hunt, and make it a priority. The strategy of killing a bear or moose, and e leaving the meat in a stash to cook back up after Lvl 5 Cooking would still be viable, but the strategy of killing everything, harvesting it in small pieces, and cooking everything to spam you Cooking Skill up quickly would be less viable.  Heck, even if they made Cooking Skill level up by weight, instead of by piece cooked would improve the Cooking Skill level-up system, IMHO. Cooking Skill is currently one of the "easiest" and fastest skills to level up in any experience mode. Perhaps a bit too easy. Granted, i do not play Loper often, so my perspective on it may not reflect how it works in Loper very well. But, my husband and daughter, who both are Loper vets are always chuckling about how easy t is to spam-level that skill up, and be able to eat anything in the world afterwards. I've never died from hunger in any any experience mode. I can't say i recall seeing many players griping over dying from starvation either. But many who use(d) the starvation method of rationing and extending food/calorie supplies, myself included.

[UpUpAway95]

41 minutes ago, ThePancakeLady said:

I have no issues with 0% raw meat and fish not despawning. We can cook it back up to 50%, which, without Lvl 5 Cooking still puts it in to the "risky to eat" category of food. But store-bought foods and cooked meat and fish should be inedible or despawn. I would be good with that. IMHO, food in this game is not that rare, even in Interloper, if you make snares or fishing tackle, make a bow and arrows to hunt, and make it a priority. The strategy of killing a bear or moose, and e leaving the meat in a stash to cook back up after Lvl 5 Cooking would still be viable, but the strategy of killing everything, harvesting it in small pieces, and cooking everything to spam you Cooking Skill up quickly would be less viable.  Heck, even if they made Cooking Skill level up by weight, instead of by piece cooked would improve the Cooking Skill level-up system, IMHO. Cooking Skill is currently one of the "easiest" and fastest skills to level up in any experience mode. Perhaps a bit too easy. Granted, i do not play Loper often, so my perspective on it may not reflect how it works in Loper very well. But, my husband and daughter, who both are Loper vets are always chuckling about how easy t is to spam-level that skill up, and be able to eat anything in the world afterwards. I've never died from hunger in any any experience mode. I can't say i recall seeing many players griping over dying from starvation either. But many who use(d) the starvation method of rationing and extending food/calorie supplies, myself included.

If 0% raw meat and fish despawned as well, it just means those that tend to store it for later have to get back to it a little bit sooner (like 1 day) so they catch it at 1% rather than 0%.  They should be to Level 5 long before the meat they store reaches 0% anyways.  It's just that they don't want to have any sort of time limit imposed on them to get back to it.

Cooking 1% condition meat takes it to 51% cooked... not a big difference in the risk, but a difference that could make it worthwhile if not at Level 5 cooking.  (ETA:  Actually no difference in the risk between 20% and 75%, according to the Wiki.  Interesting, I always thought it was a straight ratio of loss of 1% condition resulted in a 1% increase is risk.)

Edited December 18, 2019 by UpUpAway95

[Guest jeffpeng]

1 minute ago, ThePancakeLady said:

I have no issues with 0% raw meat and fish not despawning. We can cook it back up to 50%

But isn't that technically enabling us of storing meat indefinetely? And yes, I know all the arguments about meat lasting virtually forever if frozen below like -15°C .... but does it really make sense from a gameplay perspective?

3 minutes ago, ThePancakeLady said:

food in this game is not that rare, even in Interloper

You have to play a very long game before hunting game becomes an actual problem, yes. And it should become a problem ... hence I'm not a fan of infinitely storing meat.

4 minutes ago, ThePancakeLady said:

if they made Cooking Skill level up by weight, instead of by piece cooked would improve the Cooking Skill level-up system

Without a doubt, yes. 👍

5 minutes ago, ThePancakeLady said:

I've never died from hunger in any any experience mode.

Me neither (ignoring Deadman here since it isn't really an experience mode, but more a form of flagellation). You don't "die" from hunger, period. Food can become a problem, but at that point, as you pointed out, you would fall back to a 600 calorie / day diet. At that rate you require a mere 4 cattails a day. Even on just 450 calories (6 hours of healthy sleep a day) it would take you 20 days to day from hunger alone. And you fail to meet those rate on several consecutive days you clearly have some other problems that are causing this.

 

[bighara]

On 12/17/2019 at 10:12 PM, ThePancakeLady said:

The only thing I would like to see changed with Food Poisoning, is to make eating 0% ruined food a 100% guarantee to give you FP. At all Cooking Skill Levels. Being able to do so in this game just makes no sense to me, at all. You could still get the calories (to maintain Well Fed), but you should be sick as a dog in return. 

I agree. If you don't actually cook something, your cooking skill shouldn't matter. Now if I heat up a low condition can of beans, maybe that should count, but un-cookable items like sardines or candy bars, etc. shouldn't be affected by cooking skill. It lets people game the system too much. I see these youtubers on play throughs hauling around 0% tins of food and chomping through it without concern. 

Also, I would argue that any food at 0% should be inedible, regardless of whether it was cooked or the skill level involved. Have it give a warning like raw meat, but if you do eat it, guaranteed FP.

Edited January 2, 2020 by bighara

[ajb1978]

Just had a thought--introduce dysentery as a possible consequence for eating 0% food.  Right now, maybe you eat some bad fish, and you feel like crap for a day.  If you're in good health already, you don't need to treat it.  Just sleep it off, deal with being at low condition the next day, and the day after that you're fine.  No medicine required, strictly speaking.

Eating 0% should carry a risk of serious food poisoning, in the form of salmonella dysentery.  Now you're faced with something that requires medical care or you will die.  And it uses content that already exists in the game.

Edited January 2, 2020 by ajb1978

[Mavgrim]

I have been pushing these same thoughts around in my head the last couple of weeks.

Cooking lvl5 basically transforms the player character into a pig, able to eat just about anything - but trees.
Ruined food should just be that, ruined, inedible in every way, just crumble/melt/dissolve as soon as you pick it up.

Suggestions:

Spoilt food keeping its full caloric value could be changed to:
- Cookable food:
20-75% => -1% calories for every percent below 75%
<20% => -2% calories for ever percent below 20%
- Non-Cookable food:
20-75% => -0.5% calories for every percent below 75%
<20% => -3% calories for ever percent below 20%

The ultimate bonus from lvl5 cooking skill could be scrapped and changed to the ability to prepare non-cookable food items by investing x minutes to restore 25% condition (removing mold, rubbing it off with snow, running it under water ... whatever fits) - this would offset the overall loss of calories from spoiling.
Regaining 50% condition by cooking seems fair enough, cooking 25% food would even restore its full caloric value then. (Cooking 1% meat would give 51% steak with app. 75% of its original caloric value.)

The risk chances for food poisoning listed in the wiki seem fine as well, but the effects of food poisoning are worth another look still.
Especially that the player can just dedicate a day - or evening rather - to eat all the moldy goopy ex-food, pop two pills/chug a tea and go to sleep doesn't feel right.
The poisoning could worsen with each additional poisoning - since the body is receiving increasing amounts of toxins, resulting in higher condition loss over time and more sleep needed to purge the system.

Maybe eating <20% and getting poisoned could empty the stomach of 50% of its current contents (i.e. lower the hunger meter by 50% of its current value) - or maybe for every food determined by a second "die roll" against the same chance value for the initial poisoning to confirm the "critical failure" - maybe it always happens when the player is already poisoned.