The only way I could see a fire drill working in the game

[Willy Pete]

I've seen the request for fire drills and other means of primitive fire-starting in the game pop up on numerous occasions for obvious reasons. Also for obvious reasons, people point out the fact that we have the magnifying glass and that TLD's base idea of limited resources doesn't work with the fire drill. I tend to agree with this line of thinking, none of my characters has ever run out of matches and has always found a magnifying glass, but I do think there might be a way for a fire drill to work with game balance.

1. Crafting: you have to craft the item "fire drill kit" from a fir firewood, two sticks, and one line (basically making it a fire bow kit, but whatever) and it weighs the combined weight of all items. This takes 15 minutes. Harvesting only gives you the firewood and a tinder plug back and takes five minutes.

2. Use: the fire drill kit has the option to "use" and this must be done indoors or when you have the sheltered icon, it requires light to use. If it's at all windy it gives the error sound and says something like: it's too windy to use this. When used, it requires a tinder item that is consumed no matter what. You burn extra calories when using the kit and each use takes about five minutes (in game) and costs 20-25% condition of the fire drill kit. If successful (a measly 20% chance) you get an item: ember. The ember stays lit for about three seconds in which you must use it as you would a match for starting a fire. If you take too long, it goes out and it is less effective than a cardboard match.

3. Skills: no skills effect the use of the fire drill kit. Firestarting has no effect and it probably wouldn't have its own secondary skill (like sharpening and repair).

All in all, this would offer an incredibly ineffective way to start fires that would be theoretically infinite (so long as you can make lines), but costly and in no way, shape, or form an easy way to start fires. It also gives the ability to get rid of all those pesky tinder plugs once you get past level 3 firestarting. This is the only way I could see a fire drill kit working in the game.

[UpUpAway95]

I like this line of thinking, but I have some concerns and modifications

1) I would give it a lighter weight than the combined items because fir wood is already quite heavy and it would be logical that you would lose some of that weight in carving the fire bow.  I think it should also take 30 minutes to craft and require a knife or a hatchet (if it is desired to still have Lopers reliant on finding flares or matches prior to going to a forge) or, alternatively,  required a hacksaw, knife or hatchet (to allow Lopers the possibility of making it prior to their forge run).  It should not require being at a workbench or simple or quality tools.

2) I would not return the fir wood when harvesting.  Instead, it should return only the 2 sticks based again on the notion that mass has been lost from the fir wood during the crafting process.  The line should be consumed and not returned.  This is also to prevent the player from benefiting from the fir wood resource fully both when making the fire bow and then in breaking it down and burning the fir wood immediately after.... which would make the loss of condition of the bow with each use pretty meaningless.  The same holds true for returning the line.  Condition loss should be 5% per use, the same as most other items in the game.

3) Since you've laid out a two-step process (one to get an ember and another to start the fire), I would increase the chance of getting an ember to 50%.

4) Using the ember to start a fire should increase the firestarting skill the same as starting any other fire does.

Edited September 7, 2019 by UpUpAway95

[odizzido]

Fir is a limited resource so I would be against using it as a consumable. It would make it the same as matches. There needs to be a point to this too, giving the option for fire when no other options exist so it can’t be too hard to attempt. 

Personally I would have the fire bow require a cured gut and a stick. Or shoelaces from the shoes you spawn in with and a stick. Fir or cedar could be required in your inventory but not consumed. No knife or anything should be required.

the chance for starting a fire with the bow should be 100%, but the time required would be unknown, like fishing.

that would make it easy for gameplay and a source of unlimited fire. The downside would be you could try all night and fail, burning a lot of calories and wasting your night when you may have been able to find matches instead.

[UpUpAway95]

1 hour ago, odizzido said:

Fir is a limited resource so I would be against using it as a consumable. It would make it the same as matches. There needs to be a point to this too, giving the option for fire when no other options exist so it can’t be too hard to attempt. 

Personally I would have the fire bow require a cured gut and a stick. Or shoelaces from the shoes you spawn in with and a stick. Fir or cedar could be required in your inventory but not consumed. No knife or anything should be required.

the chance for starting a fire with the bow should be 100%, but the time required would be unknown, like fishing.

that would make it easy for gameplay and a source of unlimited fire. The downside would be you could try all night and fail, burning a lot of calories and wasting your night when you may have been able to find matches instead.

Just the other day, I was clearly told here that fir and cedar limbs respawn after a storm in TLD.  That means that fir is not a finite resource.  That means everything this idea is constructed from will spawn in the world infinitely.  The spawns may be rare, but they are there.

You can craft 3 (correction 2) lines from a gut and they are very light to carry, so I think that's a fine suggestion.  It only means that the player has to plan ahead a bit and craft a few lines to carry around to make fire bows.

For fishing, you do it for a fixed length of time (1-hour increments) and only your level of success is determined within that time... did you catch 1-2-3 fish or none.  I'm really not sure how you would incorporate doing something continuously for an indefinite amount of time until success is achieved into the current "clock-wheel" interface we currently have for such things.  If people are setting a time in 1-hour increments to start a fire, there is going to be a lot of freezing to death going on while they try to start one.  This, IMO, would render the suggestion useless... I personally would never take the risk as long as I had a single match, firestriker or flare or a lit torch (torch walking) or a magnifying lens and a sunny day.

Edited September 7, 2019 by UpUpAway95

[ManicManiac]

Hand drills can be difficult until you get more skilled... so I still think that the simple solution might be the most effective and more balanced in terms of gameplay  : 

On ‎7‎/‎24‎/‎2019 at 3:25 AM, ManicManiac said:

One thing that I (and others) have suggested in our wish list threads in the past has been friction fire.  Many people get caught up on the "bow-drill," probably because it's more familiar... but I think the "hand-drill" would be better since it's simple (and the crafting recipe could conceivably be just a stick and a piece of cedar - because these are already in the game).   ***for the sake of balance... I have also recommended that this ability would be unlocked once the player's fire starting skill rose to a more advanced level... like Level 5  - this way we have the magnifying glass and friction fire to rely on if we live long enough to run out of matches.   ***

 

[Stone]

I like the two step process and crafting requirements. But I'm with @odizzido on how long it takes - you should just do it until it works or you cancel. However., I feel it all gets quite complicated from a player experience perspective. So for gameplay I'd just fold it into the existing mechanics. The fire bow is craftable but then works like other ignition sources - use to start fire, but it with low success rate. It seems fair that it improves with fire lighting.

 

Edited September 9, 2019 by Stone
Typo

[ManicManiac]

I don't know, I still think the hand drill would be the better option.  Simple... effective (but requiring some skill and experience)

 

[Jimmy]

Instead of two sticks, why not have it cost a maple sapling instead? It's the same basic principle as a survival bow, after all. Thus, for an Interloper, you'd need to either have found a hacksaw or crafted an improvised hatchet before you can craft this item, instead of just harvesting a bunny, finding a firewood cache, and waiting a few days.

This also solves the issue of renewability. With each use draining 2% of the condition until you break it and harvest 2 sticks and a fir firewood, you're trading the convenience of starting a fire on a cloudy day for the loss of a limited resource.