My Moose Fear

[ManicManiac]

4 minutes ago, turtle777 said:

And let’s not forget that there is no cheap repairing it

[Guest jeffpeng]

5 hours ago, ManicManiac said:

Folks that like the Moose Cloak seem to like for the fact that's got the highest water proofing, highest armor, and lowest movement restriction (compared to the wolfskin coat and bearskin coat).  Those three things are the advantages of the Moose Cloak... personally I never bother crafting it.

Right on the money, and that's why I like it, protection being the most important part. Also as @stratvox mentioned you can recycle it without needing an addition hide. Plus I do prefer to have a bearskin bedroll before I do bother making a coat. When I do have a few bear skins to spare I indeed heavily debate with myself what to wear, but as bears are formidable adversaries I do not hunt them without a pressing need to do so, or unless I can do so absolutely safely. Moose are much less scary .... if approached correctly. 

5 hours ago, stratvox said:

This is pretty much the acme of clothing in TLD. Heavy snow and a brisk wind? Not an issue, because it's going to take all day for the water to get past your cloak, so it's going to take a long time for it to start to seriously wear down your warmth bonus from your clothing.

Minus the few unobtainables in Interloper (the Cowichans, the Longjohns, the Balaclava) that's pretty much how I end up roaming the frozen wastes. Not the absolute maximum in terms of warmth, but more mobile while being basically a tank.

In the end I think it comes down to preference. You can counterargue that if you play properly Protection does not really matter that much. And that's correct. But shoot happens, and if Murphy and Schrödiger taught us anything, it's that shoot will happen eventually. You can also argue that 2.5+1 °C are worth the 10% less mobility and 1kg more carry weight. If you strip those values for themselves 2.5+1°C for 10% sprint and 1kg is an amazing item.

I really like how it is a choice, not a "this or that is best in slot". I would like to have more choices like that.

Edited September 29, 2019 by jeffpeng
Forgot to reply to strat :D

[ManicManiac]

36 minutes ago, jeffpeng said:

Plus I do prefer to have a bearskin bedroll before I do bother making a coat.

I also prioritize the bearskin bedroll before the coat as well.  Admittedly I tend to favor warmth stats more than the others, so I tend toward the expedition parka when ever possible and then armor up with either a bear or wolf skin coat.  However, considering I tend to want to make the bedroll first, I usually end up with a Parka and a wolfskin coat "ideally."  (I know it's not really ideal, but it's usually how it works out... my first moose always becomes a satchel )

I tend to worry about armor a little less, as I generally focus on evading hostile wildlife unless I'm specifically hunting for them.  Hence why I favor warmth over protection.

It may not be the best strategy, but so far it's been working for me alright.  I imagine I will feel differently when I finally let myself "graduate" to interloper  
 

Edited September 29, 2019 by ManicManiac

[Guest jeffpeng]

11 minutes ago, ManicManiac said:

Admittedly I tend to favor the warmer things, so I tend toward the expedition parka when ever possible and then armor up with either a bear or wolf skin coat.

Well the parka isn't an option for me as it's on the unobtainable list on Interloper. I can see how one would favor that over the moose hide cloak.

[turtle777]

11 hours ago, jeffpeng said:

In the end I think it comes down to preference. You can counterargue that if you play properly Protection does not really matter that much. And that's correct. But shoot happens, and if Murphy and Schrödiger taught us anything, it's that shoot will happen eventually. 

Can you explain to me how the protection % factors into a struggle and clothing damage ?

E.g. Bearskin coat (18%) vs. Moose hide cloak (25%) ?

How much difference does this additional 7% make ? 7% less damage ?

 

-t

[Guest jeffpeng]

I never actually looked up how it works exactly, and it is pretty hard to test, but I'm almost cetain we're talking flat damage reduction. So that would mean that instead of 100% you take 100% - x%. This actually makes reduction more valueable the more you can acquire. Let me explain (Math incoming, be warned).

Assuming we have 0% damage reduction, adding 10% reduces 10% of 100 damage, resulting in 90, which is 90% (90/100) of what we would have taken before.
If we assume 10%, adding 10% reduces 20% of 100 damage, resulting in 80, which is is 88.88% (80/90) of what we would have taken before. So adding 10% yielded 11% reduced damage.
Now let's assume we already have 30%. Adding 10% reduces 40% of 100 damage, resulting in 60, which is 85.7% (60/70) of what we would have taken before. So ading 10% yielded 14.3% reduced damage.
If we spin this to the absolute maximum assuming ridiculous damage protection gear, including Ski Boots, with a bearskin coat we end up with 51%. Adding 7% (exchanging the bearskin coat for the moose hide) reduces a total of 58% of 100 damage, resulting in 42, which is 85.7% (42/349) of what we would have taken before. So adding 7% yielded 14.3% reduced damage.

Conslusion: the more protection gear you have, the more effective it is to add more protection gear. That's where the moose hide cloak shines, as it allows you to run around with 50%+ protection even on Interloper assuming maintainable, reasonable gear. So if we assume Rabbit Hat, Rabbit Gloves, Ear Wraps, Deer Pants and Deer Boots the difference between the bearskin and the moose hide is (100-52)/(100-45) = 87.2% == ~13% more effective protection between the two of them.

More Text/Math:

The above is also the reason why games like WoW (for example) employ a logarithmic scaling curve instead of flat damage reduction scaling, so that the more Armor you have, the less % reduction you receive, but effectively making every point of armor worth the same amout of effective damage reduction, no matter how much you already have. In LoL, another example of that, it works exactly like this: 100 Armor reduces the damage you take by 50%, 100 more armor reduce the damage you take by another 25%. At first glance the 100 extra armor are worth half as much, but going from 50% to 25% damage taken is still effectively halving the amount of damage you take compared to having only 100 armor.

So if we now factor this into our comparision of the two clothing options, we have to conclude that, compared to the bearskin coat the moose hide cloak has:
+10% Waterproofing (which effectively is double the amount since taking 10% instead of 20% water is halving the actual amount)
+10% Sprint
+13% effective damage reduction (under the above cicumstances)
-1.0kg / 2.2lbs
-3.5 combined °C

By the same logic applied above you could make the argument that 3.5°C can actually make the difference of freezing in an hour, or freezing in 4 hours. You could also make the argument that 45% damage reduction is already enough to keep you on your feet no matter what mother nature throws at you. So I guess it really comes down to preference.

Yeah, wasn't that a lot of writing and calculating to come to a conclusion we already knew we'd make

[turtle777]

Thanks, I never looked at it this way. I do have a spare moose hide hanging around (found it in HRV), and I already have two satchels, so I might give it a try.

If only I could remember where I left this hide 😂

 

-t

[matchstick]

jeffpeng l think you're correct about the revolver. It will kill a deer or wolf one shot crit, but not the bear or moose. It's OK, game balance and all.

[Guest jeffpeng]

4 hours ago, matchstick said:

jeffpeng l think you're correct about the revolver. It will kill a deer or wolf one shot crit, but not the bear or moose. It's OK, game balance and all.

Yes it needs to be that weak for balancing purposes, but if it has to be: what's its actual place in the game? That's my main gripe with the addition of the revolver. It's the jack of all traits, but not just the master of none .... it's actually pretty damn lackluster at everything it's supposed to do. But I don't wanna go into detail (again ...) why I feel the revolver is a misplaced addition. It's here, and it doesn't hurt anyone, so whatever I guess

[turtle777]

The revolver has an important purpose for me: getting rid of wolves w/o the risk of losing arrows. 
 

if I’m traveling, and not hunting, I don’t want to waste an arrow to scare off a wolf that’s come my way. Wolf might run of with the arrow, and I might never find it. 
 

I sure won’t miss that bullet 😁

 

-t

Edited September 30, 2019 by turtle777

[ManicManiac]

1 hour ago, turtle777 said:

The revolver has an important purpose for me: getting rid of wolves w/o the risk of losing arrows.

@turtle777, stones are good for this purpose as well... though admittedly it dose take some practice to properly estimate a throw without aiming, however the "ammo" is free that way .

Edited September 30, 2019 by ManicManiac

[stratvox]

2 hours ago, turtle777 said:

if I’m traveling, and not hunting, I don’t want to waste an arrow to scare off a wolf that’s come my way. Wolf might run of with the arrow, and I might never find it. 

Oh, if you live long enough, you're pretty likely to end up finding it. I've found arrows I'd lost more than a year before (in game time) before.

With cloak, deer pants and boots, rabbit mitts and hat, a bear mauling goes from 90% condition damage to 45%. That's huge.

[stratvox]

On 9/28/2019 at 9:35 PM, jeffpeng said:

Not the absolute maximum in terms of warmth, but more mobile while being basically a tank.

And if you get caught by a surprise whiteout in the vastness of PV, you've got a much longer window of opportunity to get to safety thanks to the wind and water bonuses on the cloak.

[matchstick]

Quick question, anyone find the wolf coat scares away the wolf only about 15-20 percent of the time? I'm on Coastal and I'm wearing it, but rarely works. Just curious...

[ManicManiac]

@matchstick
I did a quick search through the forums as I remember discussing this before:

On ‎8‎/‎19‎/‎2019 at 2:22 AM, ManicManiac said:

The wolf coat increases the chances of a wolf fleeing from you, it doesn't guarantee that they will.  However, the items that increase those chances do stack.  Based on what I've experienced, if you have wolf coat(s), bearskin bedroll, bearskin coat, and moose hide cloak (in any combination) will help maximize the chance of scaring off wolves.  Again though, it's never guaranteed.

[Irrelevant text removed for brevity]

Even if you are carrying/wearing all of the game's wolf-repellant items the wolves can still decided to attack you (as the percentage is never going to be 100%)... sure there would be a much greater chance of them running in fright, but it's not a force field. 

You even have a very small chance of scaring off wolves even without any of these items... but it is extremely rare to happen.

Edited October 1, 2019 by ManicManiac
You'll have to forgive us, we've gotten a bit off topic.

[Guest jeffpeng]

9 hours ago, ManicManiac said:

@turtle777, stones are good for this purpose as well... though admittedly it dose take some practice to properly estimate a throw without aiming, however the "ammo" is free that way .

I only mastered this recently. But as of late I racked up a quite impressive broken nose count. Using stones against wolfes is actually .... rock solid *runsaway*

8 hours ago, matchstick said:

Quick question, anyone find the wolf coat scares away the wolf only about 15-20 percent of the time? I'm on Coastal and I'm wearing it, but rarely works. Just curious...

I make it a point to never rely on it. It has rid me of a wolf often enough, and when it does it usually is a welcome thing since usually its a wolf that I didn't account for. But its a nice bonus, an additional safety factor, something that contributes to your survival. It's not meant to allow you walking into a pack of wolves and make them disperse in terror.

8 hours ago, ManicManiac said:

However, the items that increase those chances do stack.

This is very interesting. I suspected as much since when I just have my wolf skin they rarely ever flee, but in the late game (with bearskin, moose hide and beardroll) the chance seems to pick up notably. I will have properly investigate this.

Edited October 1, 2019 by jeffpeng