Tidying up loose ends of realism or logic

[peteloud]

There are several changes on my wish list for TLD.  I'm sure that they have all been mentioned previously.  They are not about making the game easier, but tidying up loose ends of realism or logic.  Any change that makes the game easier must be off-set by a negative change to maintain the  same level of challenge.  At lower levels of the game these things don't matter too much, but when you are having it really tough and having problems that don't make sense, it becomes a much bigger, more important issue.  

* Fewer sprains. The number of sprains is unrealistic.  A reduction in sprains would need a reduction in rose hips to maintain the same level of challenge.
* Being able to convert animal skins into cured leather for repairs.
* When a fire blows out I would like to be able to re-use the unburned wood.
* I would like to see maple and birch saplings re-spawn after a year.
* I would like to see a steady dropping of crow feathers around corpses and carcasses, not a once-off dropping of them.
* I would like to see a simple, plain, wooden arrow that could only kill rabbits and scare wolves.
* I would not like to see snow-mobiles or variety high powered weapons, although a shotgun would enhance the game.  The game is about a crashed pilot surviving, not about bourgeois toys for boys.
 

 

[bighara]

I understand about the saplings not respawning. It's an ongoing winter. No spring, no new growth.  Not terribly realistic, but fits the game's theme. 

I love the idea of leather and hide being interchangeable. 

 

 

[Mroz4k]

I completely agree and value your dedication to making changes to the game, and keeping in the mind the balance of the game. This is something only a fraction of people who suggest ideas do - and it is an incredibly important part. For that alone, you have my respect.

Though I must admit I am not really a fan of most of your suggestions. But those are just my opinions, mind you - so please don't feel discouraged.

20 hours ago, peteloud said:

Fewer sprains. The number of sprains is unrealistic.  A reduction in sprains would need a reduction in rose hips to maintain the same level of challenge.

I understand this frustration. For that reason, I tend to turn sprains off, due to their RNG nature being quite a common occurrence. However, I don't think there is a need to limit rose hips to balance this. Rose hips also have the benefit of being re-heatable. If anything, an occurrence of painkillers should be lowered instead. But again, don't think this is necessary.
I think a better way to balance this is to make the sprain make more sense, meaning a decrease in occurrence on flat terrains, but maybe an increase considering a longer walk of highly varied terrain (trekking down or uphill). Just generally making it more immersive would be a better fix. (albeit a harder one).

20 hours ago, peteloud said:

Being able to convert animal skins into cured leather for repairs.

 

I find this unnecessary. You can get cured leather via beachcombing. If hides were processed to cured leather, people would stockpile them with a purpose to use Civilized boots instead of the crafted ones. If rabbit pelt could be turned to cured leather, it means moccasins become a much better item simply because you don't necessarily need deer hides to fix them. This would be unbalanced, a LOT. Also would promote pelt hoarding.

20 hours ago, peteloud said:

When a fire blows out I would like to be able to re-use the unburned wood.

 

Makes realistic sense. But not game balance one. The fact you lose all the charcoal and firewood value is a punishment for not considering your campfire placement wisely. Also why it is actually better to sometimes make multiple smaller campfires instead. This would make the game easier.

20 hours ago, peteloud said:

I would like to see maple and birch saplings re-spawn after a year.

 

So would a lot of us. And not just saplings - the other natural resources as well. But right now Hinterland is not pursuing any seasonal weather changes and they wish to make the game with finite resources so this is unlikely. I think this could be a great setting for a custom mode.

20 hours ago, peteloud said:

I would like to see a steady dropping of crow feathers around corpses and carcasses, not a once-off dropping of them.

Actually, the feathers do respawn after a couple of days already. I think the requisite for that is just that you don't visit that region for a couple of days, but that may be inaccurate.

 

20 hours ago, peteloud said:

I would like to see a simple, plain, wooden arrow that could only kill rabbits and scare wolves.

That would be unrealistic, and a very easy way to skill up archery skill. It would not be balanced. Not to mention the important issue - there are currently no "ammo variations" in the game, so I can't imagine this could even work unless it was fired from a different bow as well. Finally, would not be immersive if it couldn't make the wolves bleed - I reckon it would make them bleed, but would not break their charge like ironhead arrows do... still, this feels unbalanced.

20 hours ago, peteloud said:

I would not like to see snow-mobiles or variety high powered weapons, although a shotgun would enhance the game.  The game is about a crashed pilot surviving, not about bourgeois toys for boys.

I have no issue with non-functional snowmobiles - but I understand why they are not in the game. If they were, people would beg Hinterland to make them usable, just like they do with the cars - even though it makes no real sense due to Aurora. I got to say I don't think they would be bad if they were usable during Aurora - they do make more sense as a vehicle then a horse which was once on the roadmaps.

Don't much care for high powered weapons. It would make some sense... but I think a rifle, in general is a limited option weapon to begin with. I would not want to increase the amount of gun ammunition in the game too much. I like an idea of a single barrel or double barrel shotgun as a weapon that could break the charge of bears. Meaning I would like a defensive weapon rather than more variety of hunting guns. But those are our opinions  



 

[k0s0ff]

Completely meaningless wishes.

[Mroz4k]

20 minutes ago, k0s0ff said:

Completely meaningless wishes.

I would not say that. All ideas and opinions have a merit. And in some way or form, many of these suggestions could have a place in the game. Just maybe not in this particular form. Others might come here, suggest their opinion to these changes. OP can reflect on their ideas - this is the way we all can cooperate to eventually finish up well balanced suggestions that can benefit the game. 

I also think it is a great topic because of what OP said in the beginning - something many people forget in their suggestions - that ideas often require balancing out. People often suggest things that make the game much easier without considering how to counteract it and make it harder. If suggestions like these were being added by Hinterland, the game would lose its charm, hidden in its difficulty.

Also, your comment is a bit insensitive, but I am sure you didn't mean it that way  probably a phrase that got lost through translation. I don't want to patronize anyone - but I found it is much more helpful to list out why you don't like some things in a suggestion then saying you don't like it. If you are specific, it helps the community to get a clearer picture of your thoughts and intentions.

[gnomegnine]

3 hours ago, Mroz4k said:

just like they do with the cars

Wait... what? I have never seen a request to add driveable cars. Probably because all the requests for them get pushed to the back of the wish list. 

[gnomegnine]

2 hours ago, Mroz4k said:

 probably a phrase that got lost through translation

whenever language comes up, it Makes me almost disappointed that I only speak english and know how to say some words for furniture in spanish.

[Mroz4k]

2 hours ago, gnomegnine said:

Wait... what? I have never seen a request to add driveable cars. Probably because all the requests for them get pushed to the back of the wish list. 

Oh yeah, they  came up plenty of times. The more ridiculous ideas wanted cars to run on lantern fuel. Some wanted for gas to be siphoned out of the other cars. Naturally electronics still make it impossible. 

Latest discussion on this that I recall was quite heated discussion around the time Aurora came out. I remember arguing with others that starter in a car requires a very specific voltage spark to ignite the engine and that aurora effects would be too sporadic to work. I was not very nice in my arguments.  The discussion turned into a pretty heated argument. 

2 hours ago, gnomegnine said:

whenever language comes up, it Makes me almost disappointed that I only speak english and know how to say some words for furniture in spanish.

Never too late to learn.  English is my third language and in total I can decently communicate in 5 languages. Perhaps not always according to grammar rules but I can get the point across. Currently trying to learn 6th - german. Not counting some basics of Latin I learned some time ago during pharmaceutical studies at a university. 

Great thing about learning languages - the more languages you learn, the easier it gets to learn new ones. And the more types of languages you learn,  the more you can understand the languages you dont know either.  Because many languages have words or phrases from other languages. I can understand some Spanish speech because it uses a lot of rephrased words from other languages. Its pretty cool feeling - when you can somewhat understand a language you never learned

[k0s0ff]

 

12 hours ago, Mroz4k said:

Also, your comment is a bit insensitive, but I am sure you didn't mean it that way  probably a phrase that got lost through translation. I don't want to patronize anyone - but I found it is much more helpful to list out why you don't like some things in a suggestion then saying you don't like it. If you are specific, it helps the community to get a clearer picture of your thoughts and intentions.

I'm sorry/ I don't wont  offend sambody/ 

On 28.11.2018 at 4:58 AM, peteloud said:

* Fewer sprains. The number of sprains is unrealistic.  A reduction in sprains would need a reduction in rose hips to maintain the same level of challenge.

I don't really understand the stretching problem in the game. Because all the damage that I got in the game was due to the fact that I crawled through the snow, while I was trying to get around the wolves. Very rarely did I get a stretch on a flat surface. I noticed I had a sprain when there were Rocks or something like that under my feet. 

Now I will try to explain something that I noticed in the game.
I noticed the way I was moving.  Holding down the "W" I move forward. Then when I need to look, for example, to the right, I turn the camera and hold down the "A" key and continue to move in the same direction. ((Same thing when you look left) At such moments, stretching the ligaments is easier to obtain
The conclusion is that you need to look where you go. It helped me.
Don't judge me strictly it's just my observation.

But I want to make some changes to your proposal.

What if you do not reduce the number of sprains, and leave them the same. For example to create a paragraph of character development associated with the number of kilometers traveled. The more kilometers you go, the more skill you have to move through the deep snow and the less you will damage the ligaments.

On 28.11.2018 at 4:58 AM, peteloud said:

* Being able to convert animal skins into cured leather for repairs.

I fully agree with Mroz4k.Also, I think if you add this, you'll need new mechanics. For example, the extraction of birch tar.

One more thing. Little life hack. 

On 28.11.2018 at 4:58 AM, peteloud said:

* When a fire blows out I would like to be able to re-use the unburned wood.

Я не совсем понял что вы имели в виду.  If you mean put out the fire and take the wood.  This idea is interesting, but meaningless, because wood is an endless resource.

On 28.11.2018 at 4:58 AM, peteloud said:

* I would like to see a steady dropping of crow feathers around corpses and carcasses, not a once-off dropping of them.

It is better to add the murder of crows. They really prevent me from listening to the world around me. With dead hooded crows on 5 feathers.

On 28.11.2018 at 4:58 AM, peteloud said:

* I would like to see a simple, plain, wooden arrow that could only kill rabbits and scare wolves.

Stones and traps. And you don't need any arrows. Birch is not a renewable resource and it is unlikely that something will happen soon.

On 28.11.2018 at 4:58 AM, peteloud said:

* I would not like to see snow-mobiles or variety high powered weapons, although a shotgun would enhance the game.  The game is about a crashed

I'd like a shotgun, too. I'm the worst shot in Canada. :- ) But the shotgun will make the game too easy.

[Mroz4k]

1 hour ago, k0s0ff said:

Я не совсем понял что вы имели в виду. 

Когда ветер взрывает огонь, он хочет вернуть несгоревшие дерево.
 

2 hours ago, k0s0ff said:

I'd like a shotgun, too. I'm the worst shot in Canada. :- ) But the shotgun will make the game too easy.

Not necessarily. If it is very inaccurate at long distances, but only powerful at short distances - making it a "defense" weapon. 

[k0s0ff]

4 minutes ago, Mroz4k said:

Когда ветер взрывает огонь, он хочет вернуть несгоревшие дерево.

Oops. Again my Russian leaked!  I think I know what this is about.
This is one of the variables in the game. the game punishes you by the fact that you do not care about making the right amount of wood. I think we should leave it at that. Because otherwise, the effect of surprise is lost.

8 minutes ago, Mroz4k said:

Not necessarily. If it is very inaccurate at long distances, but only powerful at short distances - making it a "defense" weapon. 

Then it would be too easy to fend off wolves and bears. Lost would the complexity of the game.
 

[peteloud]

. . .and there was another wish that I forgot.

 

* I wish I could use tinder plugs as fuel to give me an extra couple of minutes fire, for when cooking only needs another 1 or 2 minutes I don't have to use more valuable bit of fuel.

[DarKube]

For decompose animal hide, I have the same idea : "Can decompose animal hide"

[Mroz4k]

Back when the first craftable items were introduced, the animals could be skinned for pieces of leather. The leather was essentially the cured leather we have right now - it could have been used for repairing of boots that were found, as well as for crafting a new pair of improvised boots. 

Then the different types of hides were added - and different types of clothing that could be made out of them. The point being - the leather system was not good. Taking specific animal hides and converting them back to the type of universal leather would allow you to fix up industrial boots, which are generally better than the crafted ones, with any type of hide you have cured. This would be a step back to the system that was here 4 years ago. You would be making the game much easier - influencing the balance of the game, making the crafted deerskin boots essentially useless because keeping the civilized boots well maintained would be incredibly easy. There is a reason we cant craft deerskin jacket or bearskin boots - different animals make different types of clothes and that encourages you to hunt them all.

4 hours ago, peteloud said:

I wish I could use tinder plugs as fuel to give me an extra couple of minutes fire, for when cooking only needs another 1 or 2 minutes I don't have to use more valuable bit of fuel.

Let's entertain the a possibility that this got into the game - what does that mean for the game? With many of these wishes you had, you went against your first comment in the OP - plenty of these are "quality of life" improvements, often pretty unbalanced, and you suggest nothing in comparison to balance them out. Which, in my opinion, is a shame.

It would be a bad idea in my opinion, here is why:
While you could burn it to give yourself an extra 2 minutes, it would also make it a viable "fuel" - meaning you could use tinder bundle as a fuel source in the campfire making. That means you could start a fire with lit torch, 2 tinder bundles (from lvl 3 just 1). This makes it a very cheap way to start a "campfire" and grind the skill.

Adding tinder on the fire would not prolong its burn time - the tinder would be consumed before it could start actually burning - that is why tinder is used to start the fire. You would need a huge quantity of tinder to make it prolong the fire even so slightly. I get this would be convenient... but TLD is not convenient.
Now, if it were newspapers, stack of papers, or a roll of newspapers... I could see that as 2 more minutes of fire. Just not the tinder bundle on its own.
Frankly, if the fire went on for longer and it is a campfire, just let it run down - there should be 2 minutes of embers unless the fire was a short one. And if you need to ensure it, put on a torch, even a ruined one - that adds 2 minutes. If you need more and have still some time till its gone, you can harvest a torch in 5 minutes into a stick, that can be used to prolong the fire for 8 more minutes. 

[deathbydanish]

On 11/29/2018 at 4:11 AM, Mroz4k said:

Когда ветер взрывает огонь, он хочет вернуть несгоревшие дерево.
 

Not necessarily. If it is very inaccurate at long distances, but only powerful at short distances - making it a "defense" weapon. 

Or you could jokingly make birdshot the only shell available, it would have bad range and little to no effect on predators (there's a reason its called birdshot).