Blizzards cause clothing wetness, not Condition Loss

[MarrowStone]

In an earlier topic about wind Buffering, an observation was made:

Clothing condition loss in blizzards seems like an artifact from before clothing wetness was a thing.

Since the mechanic's implementation, why hasnt it carried over to clothing in blizzards?

I mean, some condition loss would be expected, but itd much more tame than the current numbers.

What do you think?

[Wastelander]

We discussed this in another thread, you have my vote  

[MueckE]

+1

fully supported

[MarrowStone]

This would also make carrying a second set of clothes in each base very important in late game,

Imagine:

Youve returned home from a blizzard but your clothes are soaking wet, you could shed them off to dry and wear some cozy second pair while they do. If you didnt have a second pair, the house might be too cold for you to survive. Without using a bed. 

Clothes could get wet to a max 5 percent from sweat on normal days as well. 

[Mikhail_Reign]

The drying mechanic could work similar to how the curing one works, except hastened by higher room temps/by a fire? Throw them on the ground and then get a % dry. I'm not sure if it does already - I've completely stayed away from ice so I've never been wet.

 

Wool is still a good insulator even when wet - I always though that one of the reasons that they specifically mention that some things are wool. That would have to have an effect as well.

 

Puddles would have to be a thing. I would love to have a reason to carry around a second pair of socks.

[Wastelander]

3 hours ago, Mikhail_Reign said:

Puddles would have to be a thing. I would love to have a reason to carry around a second pair of socks.

Probably ain't gonna happen given the average temperatures. But then again, seasons are on the roadmap, so I guess that has merit.

3 hours ago, Mikhail_Reign said:

The drying mechanic could work similar to how the curing one works, except hastened by higher room temps/by a fire? Throw them on the ground and then get a % dry. I'm not sure if it does already - I've completely stayed away from ice so I've never been wet.

 

I don't know either, but if it doesn't it should, that's a good idea.

[Mikhail_Reign]

11 hours ago, Wastelander said:

Probably ain't gonna happen given the average temperatures. But then again, seasons are on the roadmap, so I guess that has merit.

Some of the caves and mines have above freezing temps, and are exactly where a cold, dank puddle of water would be, nicely hidden by the shadows - and you,my friend, just stepped in one and are now wishing you had my second pair of socks!  

[Wastelander]

59 minutes ago, Mikhail_Reign said:

Some of the caves and mines have above freezing temps, and are exactly where a cold, dank puddle of water would be, nicely hidden by the shadows - and you,my friend, just stepped in one and are now wishing you had my second pair of socks!  

Well thanks mate, I appreciate it, I really do  But seriously - I have to admit I'm not a cave-dweller in the game, since I prefer the much more cozy manmade structures. So, how do these exist? I mean, air doesn't generally warm up for no reason at all. Is it the lack of windchill, and if that's the case, what happened to the rest of ambient temperature? I think this may be a bug.

[MarrowStone]

8 hours ago, Wastelander said:

Well thanks mate, I appreciate it, I really do  But seriously - I have to admit I'm not a cave-dweller in the game, since I prefer the much more cozy manmade structures. So, how do these exist? I mean, air doesn't generally warm up for no reason at all. Is it the lack of windchill, and if that's the case, what happened to the rest of ambient temperature? I think this may be a bug.

Deeper Caves are near a constant temperature all year 

In the Midwest, theyre 11.1 C 

Up in Canada theyre a bit lower. But unless youre in an area thats below freezing all year, a cave wont be. 

Geothermal heat also contributes in very very deep caves, or near activity.

[MarrowStone]

Wool definitely is a better insulator than Cotton, there's even a saying that highlights this, "Cotton Kills"

Cotton loses 90 percent of its insulation when wet, and also holds moisture.

Wool keeps a lot more of its insulatuon, and is water resistant to an extent. 

[alone sniper]

You mean i can run all over TWM without clothes and survive ???

[togg]

Just a matter of time, they're planning to rebuild the whole clothing system

[Mikhail_Reign]

16 hours ago, alone sniper said:

You mean i can run all over TWM without clothes and survive ???

Yeah just thinking about it, if you made it to the main caves you be pretty fine for a while. Not sure how far away from the caves you'd be able to travel, but if it was far enough to sprint to the smaller caves, you'd be able to cover most of the map

[MarrowStone]

1 hour ago, Mikhail_Reign said:

Yeah just thinking about it, if you made it to the main caves you be pretty fine for a while. Not sure how far away from the caves you'd be able to travel, but if it was far enough to sprint to the smaller caves, you'd be able to cover most of the map

Yeah, the only issue is that you wouldnt be able to do much climbing, due to exhaustion from sprinting. And sleeping to get your rest up before/afyer the climb would be suicide :P, but youd definitely be fine in PV if youre fast enough.

[Patrick Carlson]

On 10/22/2016 at 2:48 AM, MarrowStone said:

In an earlier topic about wind Buffering, an observation was made:

Clothing condition loss in blizzards seems like an artifact from before clothing wetness was a thing.

Since the mechanic's implementation, why hasnt it carried over to clothing in blizzards?

I mean, some condition loss would be expected, but itd much more tame than the current numbers.

What do you think?

Thanks for the thoughts and suggestions in this thread. Just so I understand you--in your imagining, would wet/frozen clothes also lead to some amount of damage for those items? 

[Brudaks]

On 10/23/2016 at 0:52 AM, Wastelander said:

Well thanks mate, I appreciate it, I really do  But seriously - I have to admit I'm not a cave-dweller in the game, since I prefer the much more cozy manmade structures. So, how do these exist? I mean, air doesn't generally warm up for no reason at all. Is it the lack of windchill, and if that's the case, what happened to the rest of ambient temperature? I think this may be a bug.

Caves within a mountain work similarly as deep pits or basements - the ground/mountain has a very, very large heat "inertia" and a few months of -30 air doesn't remove that much heat from it beyond the very top layer. If air is mostly insulated and there's no wind, then the ground heats up the air faster than it can cool down with the surrounding air, as air in general transfers heat poorly and cold/dry air has very little heat capacity.

It's like you can have a septic tank full of water and stuff buried a few metres under the ground and never worry about it freezing and breaking, or a basement under an unheated/unused house can be used to store e.g. potatoes and expect to stay above freezing temperatures throughout the whole winter. 

[MarrowStone]

1 hour ago, Patrick Carlson said:

Thanks for the thoughts and suggestions in this thread. Just so I understand you--in your imagining, would wet/frozen clothes also lead to some amount of damage for those items? 

I was thinking there'd still be some damage to wet/frozen clothing, but itd be much less than it is currently. Heres a rough example:

1. Blizzard starts: 

Your clothing will slowly get wet from driving winds and snow.

2. A few minutes in:

Clothes are getting damp, first bits of damage, but half the rate it is currently or less.

3. Some time in (probably around the time youre freezing:

Your clothes are utterly soaked and do little to help. Current damage kicks in when wetness at 100 percent. (To simulate frozen clothes being brittle.)

Course of action:

Once safe by a fire you can choose to either stay in your clothes and risk not being able to warm up as well, or grab a second set and be cozy while your other pair dry, either normal speed in backpack or faster by a fire, like curing hides.

This would encourage players to keep extra pairs stashed. It would also give players some time to react to the blizzard before their clothes turn to dust.

Do you have any more questions? I hope this clarified it. Im more than willing to duscuss it further. Thanks for your consideration by the way!

[cekivi]

2 hours ago, Patrick Carlson said:

Thanks for the thoughts and suggestions in this thread. Just so I understand you--in your imagining, would wet/frozen clothes also lead to some amount of damage for those items? 

I think @MarrowStone's intent is to have the wetness replace condition loss. With wetness you could have a significant loss of insulating ability without much condition loss to make blizzards much more dangerous. If your new clothes are soaked in a blizzard you have as much chance to freeze to death as wearing dry rags. Even once you're inside the hypothermia risk persists until you can dry off.

I also like the idea of water hazards in caves and mines. As @Mikhail_Reign pointed out they're a very realistic threat.

[Mikhail_Reign]

Just an an addendum to Marrows point - I would say that clothes would only dry like hides and wouldn't dry while being carried - I can't imagine a socked ball of semi frozen clothes drying very quickly in a bag. 

Tho that said I do like the idea of drying socks around my neck.

[MarrowStone]

5 hours ago, Mikhail_Reign said:

Just an an addendum to Marrows point - I would say that clothes would only dry like hides and wouldn't dry while being carried - I can't imagine a socked ball of semi frozen clothes drying very quickly in a bag. 

Tho that said I do like the idea of drying socks around my neck.

Theyd dry if worn though, just at a slow pace. Especially socks. Haha, is there a craftable sock scarf in our furure? 

[Mikhail_Reign]

Oh yeah if you were still wearing them, standing inside by a fire should dry them too. Basically tho I think it should work the same as curing hides - they only dry inside, on the ground, but won't dry in a bag. You could even have then degrade faster if they are wet, but not out drying.

[cekivi]

15 hours ago, MarrowStone said:

Theyd dry if worn though, just at a slow pace. Especially socks. Haha, is there a craftable sock scarf in our furure? 

Yes and no. Clothes will dry to a point but you're still sweating and any cloths outside your "shell" layer would probably freeze solid and not dry regardless.

[MarrowStone]

14 hours ago, cekivi said:

Yes and no. Clothes will dry to a point but you're still sweating and any cloths outside your "shell" layer would probably freeze solid and not dry regardless.

I believe he meant when the character's in a location above freezing like by a fire. But good points.

Edit: *I meant* didnt realize I was defending myself haha.

[cekivi]

5 hours ago, MarrowStone said:

I believe he meant when the character's in a location above freezing like by a fire. But good points.

Edit: *I meant* didnt realize I was defending myself haha.

That makes more sense. As I was reading it it sounded like having the character walking around outside would be effective for drying clothes in winter

[Mikhail_Reign]

Ooooh. Nah I was assuming that most people would take off wet clothes if given the chance, (and hopefully replace them with others - hence my carrying a second pair of socks comments) and was referring to wet clothes carried on your person, but not being worn.

so to clarify - in my opinion clothes should only dry if they are being worn somewhere warm, or they are dropped on the ground. Carrying a wet pair of pants around with you shouldn't dry them out - or at the very least dry at a greatly reduced speed (to allow for 'drying them around your neck')