Wind Buffering

[Mikhail_Reign]

Currently if you face your character in a direction, he will forever look in that exact direction forever more, unless you move the mouse.

 

This means that blizzards are completely harmless as long as you know the direction you have to walk. As long as you know how long it takes roughly to get somewhere, you can figure out if you can get there before you freeze and then step outside, point the mouse in the correct direction, jam the W key down with a fork (or use a macro) and then go eat dinner.

 

So far my tests with this have resulted in me being able to hit a 5m or so target over the lenght of an entire map. I've actually gotten to the point where I use dead reckoning and timing to even change course in the blizzard (with NO visual references) with only a slight reduction in accuracy (currently wind buffering only affects speed so you may actually be a few seconds ahead or behind where you 'think' you are).

 

What I am suggesting is that, in addition to affecting your movement speed, gusts of wind would also slightly adjust your 'aim', making it require input to remain on a true path. With a hypotetical gust coming from the right, I suggest that the camera be 'pushed' not only left, but most importantly DOWN. This would represent the character trying to protect them self from the wind, but would also momentarily break any line of sight the player had with any nearby visual reference points they might have had in the blizzard, forcing them to quickly reevaluate their surroundings to confirm the direction of travel.

[MarrowStone]

I agree with this a lot, especially when implemented with a first person presence of your off hand sheilding your face on particularly strong winds, and extra voice-outtakes like, "I cant hear myself Think!", "Which Way?(or something better)",  etc. And the addition of trail markers.

We could Call the update "Wild Tempest" to fit their theme of naming updates with similar language.

Also, theyd have to avoid us being blown about too much though, otherwise there'd be a lot of negative feedback from the exploiters. Haha

[Wastelander]

"Wind's too strong, my eyes hurt!"

"Can't see with all this goddamn snow!"

I like this idea a lot. 

[MarrowStone]

1 hour ago, Wastelander said:

"Wind's too strong, my eyes hurt!"

"Can't see with all this goddamn snow!"

I like this idea a lot. 

"I DONT, wanna lose my way in this.." 

[Gaboris]

I like the challenge aspect, but I don't know if it would be any fun or rather it could get too frustrating. The constant blizzards already force most players inside wasting their game time and those who do risk going out or get caught outside already have a hard time surviving.

Naturally I'm all in for the idea, but we have to figure out how to balance it out. Maybe implement it with the requested "automove" hotkey option so we won't break out fingers, but we'd still have to pay attention to realign ourselves while moving?

[MarrowStone]

6 hours ago, Gaboris said:

I like the challenge aspect, but I don't know if it would be any fun or rather it could get too frustrating. The constant blizzards already force most players inside wasting their game time and those who do risk going out or get caught outside already have a hard time surviving.

Naturally I'm all in for the idea, but we have to figure out how to balance it out. Maybe implement it with the requested "automove" hotkey option so we won't break out fingers, but we'd still have to pay attention to realign ourselves while moving?

Yes, thatd be a nice implement too, and as Ive suggested, craftable trail markers.

[Mikhail_Reign]

I've just read 'The Children's Blizzard' which is a novelization of survivors accounts . Having read this, I believe what I have suggested if anything under represents a blizzard.

Quote

It’s hard to find vocabulary for weather this cold. The senses become first sharp and then dulled. Objects etch themselves with hyperclarity on the dense air, but it’s hard to keep your eyes open to look at them steadily. When you first step outside from a heated space, the blast of 46-below-zero air clears the mind like a ringing slap. After a breath or two, ice builds up on the hairs lining your nasal passages and the clear film bathing your eyeballs thickens. If the wind is calm and if your body, head, and hands are covered, you feel preternaturally alert and focused. At first. A dozen paces from the door, your throat begins to feel raw, your lips dry and crack, tears sting the corners of your eyes. The cold becomes at once a knife and, paradoxically, a flame, cutting and scorching exposed skin.

Quote

Even worse than the whiteout was the agony of his eyes when he tried to see through the snow. The fine hard pellets blew into his eyes and made them water. Walter cried and the snow mixed with his tears until it formed a crust between the upper and lower lids. Instinctively he reached up to brush the crust away with the back of his hand. Soon his eyeballs were inflamed, which further distorted his vision. The pain became so acute that it felt better to let the ice crust build. Tears and blowing snow melded together and sealed his eyes shut tightly. There was no way to break the seal except by tearing the tender skin.

Quote

By nightfall an old Norwegian settler named Ole Tisland had rubbed the ice around his eyes so often and so violently with the back of his sleeve that he had torn the frozen skin away and exposed his cheekbones.

Quote

Blinded by the snow and staggering at the mercy of the wind, they might have ended up anywhere. By dead chance the wind deposited them at the neighboring farm, about a mile to the east. At first Ole couldn’t believe it since he was convinced they had been traveling northeast. But the northwest wind was so powerful that they had barely gone north at all.

 

I feel that a blizzard should be a force to be reckoned with not something that I can walk though. I agree that there is a need for balance - you wouldn't be able to live in PV if this actually happened at the rate it currently does. What I suggest to balance it is to reduce the overall amount of blizzards that there are, but drastically increase the time that they go for.

 

You shouldn't feel like you are 'wasting your time inside'. You should feel trapped. Like you are on a life raft in the middle of an ocean of ice. You should be wondering if you have enough food and water, and most importantly wood, here and now, or if you will have to go outside and brave the blizzard. I find your suggestion that people are currently finding blizzards hard to survive - the few times that I have gotten lost (talking to someone, look away and inadvertently move the mouse and lose my bearing) are some of the most fun times that I have had. Wondering if I will live or die, desperately trying to find any familiar shape in the darkness.

 

[Ape88]

Hmm, this makes me think that we should have some sort of goggle or glasses to break the wind a bit. I know when it is windy where I live, my eyes do hurt quite a bit and get extra dry.

[Mikhail_Reign]

If I remember correctly, the example screen shot of the clothing system included a space for goggles. That could be interesting.

[LucidFugue]

While straight line movement currently works, it is of limited use. Getting lost in a blizzard is just so ridiculously dangerous that the risk/reward doesn't stack up. You also do a fair amount of damage to your clothes by travelling during a blizzard, and you can only really take the risk to navigate to places you're sure of the direction to. 

 

That said, I'm all for wind subtly pushing the player, such that attempting a blind dash will more than likely lead somewhere other than intended. Snowblindness as an affliction I wouldn't want. I would like to see trees dropping branches during the blizzard though,rather than just appearing once it is done. 

 

[Muk_Pile]

14 hours ago, LucidFugue said:

I would like to see trees dropping branches during the blizzard though,rather than just appearing once it is done. 

That would motivate people to stay inside during a blizzard, if there was a random chance getting hurt by a falling tree branch.

[Mikhail_Reign]

I don't get what you mean by straigh line movement not working? My point is that you DONT get lost - it's almost impossible since you are always heading the direction you picked. I currently don't really experience ANY danger. Wolfs come at me so often, rabbits are so plentiful and dear easy enough to find that clothing damage is negligible. obviously staying inside and crafting during a blizzard is optimal, but but my point is that it also is completely optional 

 

As for directions, that are simple enough to map out - on a clear day step outside and look. Since you keep a ridged path you can use reference points at your feet and extrapolate them out. At my current base camp when you step outside there are 4 stick on the ground my feet. If I line up with them, jam/macro the W key and step away from the game I WILL arrive at my destination. Once I came back from the toilet and I'd been attacked by a wolf, but the other 99% of the time I make it.

 

Oh! Snow blindness! Since it seems googles are already planned, it seems plausible that that's what they are for. I really like that idea. Basically the issue I have is that movement and visuals are ridgedly and predictably linked.

[LucidFugue]

I just meant that while it works, it's applications are a little limited. You want a straight line path with no wolves or bears in the way, otherwise you're risking your life for a shortcut. Yeah, most of the time you might be good, but I don't want to die because I rolled the dice when I didn't have to.

For example: let's say I'm at the rural store in PV and I want to get to the red barn in the middle of a blizzard. I can cut across the road, through the snowfield, cross the river and come over the hill on the other side. If you were pointed in the right direction and stayed true the whole way it would be the most direct route. 

However, it runs right through several wolf patrol areas, and if I get turned around in that field I've go riverbanks on two edges and roads on another two, I could just as easily wind up back where I started if I got turned around. 

I'd rather hug the river on the left bank as I go north, and then let it naturally take me all the way around to the north/south bridge, where I know I can approach the PV outbuildings directly from the north side of the bridge and reach the red barn. I'd take the same way back - follow the river till you hit the bridge at rural crossroads. You could follow the road the whole way, too, but it also carries a higher risk of wolf encounters. 

Takes a while longer but I know I can do that safely (you do have to pay attention the whole way though, because you will start to second guess yourself and wonder if you've missed the bridge). 

I agree that having a slight deviation while walking due to the wind would eliminate what you're describing, and that's a change for the better. It's just perhaps not a game breaking issue because there are a range of options when it comes to blizzards. 

[Mikhail_Reign]

Huh. The example you used is one of the paths I use this method with the most. I've never had much problem with wolfs in blizzards (I actually thought they 'backed off' during). 

[MarrowStone]

45 minutes ago, Mikhail_Reign said:

Huh. The example you used is one of the paths I use this method with the most. I've never had much problem with wolfs in blizzards (I actually thought they 'backed off' during). 

You both are right, They do disappear after blizzards start unless theyre in your general area or field of view. But, when theres a dense fog, especially if you sprint, you're almost destined to have a wolf see you before you see it.

Either way I still see wind buffering as useful because at the very least itd help you get a "feel" for how strong an oppresive those winds really are. Itd help you feel more connected.

[Mikhail_Reign]

Ah cool. I didn't think I'd encountered many animals during - that reinforces my point more. During a blizzard it is THE only thing to worry about. It is when you should be pulling out all the stops to survive, not using a macro to travel because there is not any enemy to attack you.

 

thinking about it a little more, I could do with being 'blown down' (which in a blizzard can be a death sentence) and having a 'mass the button to get back up' event - basically a weather version of a wolf attack.

In one of the reports I've read, a man and a couple memebers of his family got caught outside. He turned the sled they were using onto its side to be a wind break for his mother and kid and set out into the blizzard to get help. He was blown down a few yards away and was unable to get up. They found his body the next morning when the weather cleared, basically 'on the other side of the road'. His family survived.

[cekivi]

On ‎2016‎-‎10‎-‎17 at 9:25 PM, MarrowStone said:

Yes, thatd be a nice implement too, and as Ive suggested, craftable trail markers.

I'm still waiting for flag tape. Especially since strong enough winds would rip the markers right off the tree/stick/posts you were using

As far as blizzards, while the occasional killer one would be amazing they can't all be that bad. A Whiteout style weather system with categories of blizzards would be far more interesting. Do you risk venturing out assuming this snow storm will be a docile category 1 when the dreaded killer category 5 could always appear when you least want it?

[MarrowStone]

6 hours ago, Mikhail_Reign said:

 

thinking about it a little more, I could do with being 'blown down' (which in a blizzard can be a death sentence) and having a 'mass the button to get back up' event - basically a weather version of a wolf attack.

In one of the reports I've read, a man and a couple memebers of his family got caught outside. He turned the sled they were using onto its side to be a wind break for his mother and kid and set out into the blizzard to get help. He was blown down a few yards away and was unable to get up. They found his body the next morning when the weather cleared, basically 'on the other side of the road'. His family survived.

Yeah, I dont weigh a lot and i tried doing that before, lets say i became a ship on full mast.

As for the "blown down" decision, Id rather not have a qte for it, but an animation that slowns according to your exhaustion level. And is determined by wind chill and exhaustion? Much like a sprained ankle works with slope and exhaustion?

Lets try and hone this concept.

 

 

[Mikhail_Reign]

35 minutes ago, cekivi said:

As far as blizzards, while the occasional killer one would be amazing they can't all be that bad. A Whiteout style weather system with categories of blizzards would be far more interesting. Do you risk venturing out assuming this snow storm will be a docile category 1 when the dreaded killer category 5 could always appear when you least want it?

Agreed. Considering that this is Canada - and this weather is meant to be 'out of the ordinary' cold, you would figure that 'cat 5' blizzard would be more common then normal, but yeah everyday can't be death outside.

 

How about instead of a range of blizzards:

What is a blizzard now is slightly toned down (similar effects Heath/condition, easier to see in) and renamed 'snowstorm' and made a bit more common, and a new 'blizzard' is added, rarer but much more deadly.

[Dirmagnos]

Its a bit hard to categorize blizzards and their effect on player. If we go with Saffir-Simpson, then player simply wont survive category 5, regardless of where he is. But if we go with NeSIS, then any blizzard would be just... a blizzard(since it measures scale, rather than intensity) and most powerful recorded snow storm in recent history would have rather little effect on player. But it did last for 3 days and caused major temperature drops, that could be the main challenge in surviving this thing - keeping yourself warm, and that on inside, going out would kill player in matter of minutes.

[cekivi]

14 hours ago, Mikhail_Reign said:

Agreed. Considering that this is Canada - and this weather is meant to be 'out of the ordinary' cold, you would figure that 'cat 5' blizzard would be more common then normal, but yeah everyday can't be death outside.

 

How about instead of a range of blizzards:

What is a blizzard now is slightly toned down (similar effects Heath/condition, easier to see in) and renamed 'snowstorm' and made a bit more common, and a new 'blizzard' is added, rarer but much more deadly.

 

9 hours ago, Dirmagnos said:

Its a bit hard to categorize blizzards and their effect on player. If we go with Saffir-Simpson, then player simply wont survive category 5, regardless of where he is. But if we go with NeSIS, then any blizzard would be just... a blizzard(since it measures scale, rather than intensity) and most powerful recorded snow storm in recent history would have rather little effect on player. But it did last for 3 days and caused major temperature drops, that could be the main challenge in surviving this thing - keeping yourself warm, and that on inside, going out would kill player in matter of minutes.

Both excellent (and interesting) ideas

[Mikhail_Reign]

Just a FYI - I was using 'cat 5' as a generic term for 'super f'in bad'. Tornados are a different thing. Although a few accounts I've read included people who had to leave shelter of a building because a roof/wall blew off, but they are mostly settler houses - paper and tar roofs, 'soddies' (houses made out of packed soil)

[MarrowStone]

I agree with different categories of storms.

A cat 5 should only occur after an x amount of days parallel to the current new temperature system.

That way players on their first week dont get a face full of guaranteed death XD.

[Mikhail_Reign]

It could easily go In hand in hand with the weather decay system.

[Dirmagnos]

On 10/20/2016 at 1:04 AM, Mikhail_Reign said:

Just a FYI - I was using 'cat 5' as a generic term for 'super f'in bad'.

"Super effin bad" is pretty much the same as "cat 5" in terms of being generic.