Wind Buffering

[MarrowStone]

6 minutes ago, Dirmagnos said:

"Super effin bad" is pretty much the same as "cat 5" in terms of being generic.

I just imagined a weather broadcast using generic terms:

The national weather service has issued a (*) winter storm warning for the following counties etc...

*

1: trivial

2: bad

3: Super bad

4: Effin Bad

5:Super Effin Bad

 

[Wastelander]

26 minutes ago, MarrowStone said:

I just imagined a weather broadcast using generic terms:

The national weather service has issued a (*) winter storm warning for the following counties etc...

*

1: trivial

2: bad

3: Super bad

4: Effin Bad

5:Super Effin Bad

 

6: Call your parents and tell 'em you love 'em

[MarrowStone]

18 minutes ago, Wastelander said:

6: Call your parents and tell 'em you love 'em

7: Bask in the cold of the unyielding Rapture. And let it free you from your worldly body, which is but an interloper in Cat 7's Domane!

[Wastelander]

Just now, MarrowStone said:

7: Bask in the cold of the unyielding Rapture. And let it free you from your worldly body, which is but an interloper in Cat 7's Domane!

8: Your ex's heart

Okay, back on topic, sorry for derailing the thread. 

[MarrowStone]

Yes. Back on topic, I have another idea

Instead of blizzards ruining your clothing so quickly, why cant the clothing get wet? Some condition loss is okay however. 

[Wastelander]

1 minute ago, MarrowStone said:

Yes. Back on topic, I have another idea

Instead of blizzards ruining your clothing so quickly, why cant the clothing get wet? Some condition loss is okay however. 

Yes, that's a good idea! The wetness of clothes is pretty underused right now, so that could be a good idea. Also, very strong blizzards could occasionally knock the player over

[MarrowStone]

Just now, Wastelander said:

Yes, that's a good idea! The wetness of clothes is pretty underused right now, so that could be a good idea. Also, very strong blizzards could occasionally knock the player over

Clothing condition loss in blizzards seems like an artifact for when thin ice used to instantly kill you, since theyve added clothing wetness in a later update, maybe its time for them to move it over to clothes in blizzards.

[Wastelander]

3 minutes ago, MarrowStone said:

Clothing condition loss in blizzards seems like an artifact for when thin ice used to instantly kill you, since theyve added clothing wetness in a later update, maybe its time for them to move it over to clothes in blizzards.

Interesting point. I still like your idea of having both though - strong winds can put a lot of strain on exposed items such as hoods, small shards of ice can rip holes in outer layers etc. (Not enough force to injure the player though)

[Mikhail_Reign]

Wait...... Your weather isn't graded like that?

 

As for the clothes, I think wear should be a more gradual thing, accelerated by a blizzard for sure, but more focused on 'chunks' being taken out to better represent how damage is done.

 

In the same way that we get sprains, you could 'tear' clothing. For example, if you bumped into something you would get a randomised chance to damage your clothes, say 5-15%. You could even add in modifiers like speed of impact or type of object (ran into a tree vs bumped into a door frame). Once you then get some damage happening, your clothes would degrade faster. A wool jumper will hold together forever but get a hole in it and it starts to unravel quickly. Doublely so when a 100km hour wind is tugging at the loose thread.

 

This would also be more promting to keep your equipment in good order. So a 100% condition item is immune from decay, but once you 'impact damage' it to anything lower it will start to decay slowly over time, accelerating as it goes?

 

 

 

[Wastelander]

2 minutes ago, Mikhail_Reign said:

This would also be more promting to keep your equipment in good order. So a 100% condition item is immune from decay, but once you 'impact damage' it to anything lower it will start to decay slowly over time, accelerating as it goes?

 

I like this idea very very much.

[akodo1]

On 10/17/2016 at 6:38 AM, Mikhail_Reign said:

I've just read 'The Children's Blizzard' which is a novelization of survivors accounts . Having read this, I believe what I have suggested if anything under represents a blizzard.

 

I feel that a blizzard should be a force to be reckoned with not something that I can walk though. I agree that there is a need for balance - you wouldn't be able to live in PV if this actually happened at the rate it currently does. What I suggest to balance it is to reduce the overall amount of blizzards that there are, but drastically increase the time that they go for.

 

 

I am from the area hit by the 1888 blizzard you are talking about.  

I want to talk about some things that might be being missed, or intertwined.  Blizzard is describing the condition where blowing snow drastically reduces vision.  Cold temerautre is something else.  And of course wind-chill is a third element.  This third element interplays with the other two.  You need wind for a blizzard.  Wind provides the additional cooling which is measured as wind-chill factor.

Even on a still day, if it's bitterly cold your nose hairs freeze, making breathing 'wierd', and I don't know if it's because the eyes dry out so quickly or as a reaction to the cold and trying to warm them up, but it stings to keep your eyes open, and they water like crazy.  You crunch your eyes together until your eyelashes are really close, that fills up with your tears and you try and look through it, the whole world a hazy mess.  And then the tears start to freeze so you close your eyes and try and rub down on your eyelids to peel the ice off.   This isn't blizzard related (can't see because of blowing snow) this is bitter cold related, either raw still temperature or wind-chill.  

Same with frostbite, ice on your sleeves, rubbing your checks until you've ripped the flesh to the bone.  It's not related to the blizzard part of the storm, but to extreme cold (which speeds the frostbite) which is related to the wind.

So I think it's important here that if there are enhancements,  they are applied correctly.  Walking in a very strong wind should slowly turn the character even if not in a blizzard.  Extreme cold should make your vision blurry even if no wind is blowing.

 

 

[Mikhail_Reign]

I agree that it is wind chill that is the real danger - wind chill is what I'm taking into account: at -20 with 60km winds you can get frost bite in 10 minutes. At -25 with 80km winds it only takes 5 minutes. Wondering off in the wrong direction for an hour should be pretty bad for your health.

 

Im also with ya that wind should play an effect all the time, not just in blizzards. Walking places is a big part of this game - the time it takes to get somewhere plays a big part of survival, and I don't think it should be something that is handled by a 'auto walk' key, but by making it another hurdle to overcome.

 

Ive been though a few of dust storms, a couple of real bad ones - they make it look black as night in the middle of the day, and you can't hear anything in the wind. You can get lost going to your mail box if you don't have a path to follow. It only sucks being outside in one, not deadly, but I imagine they would effect you similarly to a blizzard in terms of wind/visibility. You cant see because your eyes are blasted from every angle with little grains. You can't really tell which way you are moving because you keep getting pushed around, so you just watch your feet and follow something. They aren't really gunna kill ya cos worst case you could just sit down and put ya head in ya shirt and wait it out, but if you HAD to be somewhere you have no chance.

[Wastelander]

2 minutes ago, Mikhail_Reign said:

Ive been though a few of dust storms, a couple of real bad ones - they make it look black as night in the middle of the day, and you can't hear anything in the wind. You can get lost going to your mail box if you don't have a path to follow. It only sucks being outside in one, not deadly, but I imagine they would effect you similarly to a blizzard in terms of wind/visibility. You cant see because your eyes are blasted from every angle with little grains. You can't really tell which way you are moving because you keep getting pushed around, so you just watch your feet and follow something. They aren't really gunna kill ya cos worst case you could just sit down and put ya head in ya shirt and wait it out, but if you HAD to be somewhere you have no chance.

So, err, basically not everything in Mad Max was fiction? Because that sounds pretty damn metal.

[MarrowStone]

@akodo1

I come from the same area too as, "The children's(schoolhouse) Blizzard in the midwest, there was also a "Great Blizzard of 1888 on the east coast too, but far less terryfying as the midwest one. It killed over 200 people!, a lot children.. one older girl was found dead, frozen standing up with her back to a tree, with the younger ones dead and huddled up to her legs.

[Mikhail_Reign]

15 hours ago, Wastelander said:

So, err, basically not everything in Mad Max was fiction? Because that sounds pretty damn metal.

Hahah. I grew up in the Mallee. Its one of the 'closer' middle of nowhere you can be in Australia. Not as bad as Western Australia where it can be days between places, but it was still a 4 hour drive to a capital city. I grew up during a drought, in a farming area, so it was always dry, hot and dusty. Dust storms weren't 'uncommon' but they weren't an every day occurrence. It seems they only became noteworthy when they managed to get always the way to the coast, and so the photos I can find online dont really do them justice. Unsurprising as I lived where the dust came from, and there is a lot of unfavorable terrain between here and the coast (the fact that they got there at the size they where is why they are noteworthy).

I dont know where this was taken exactly, but it looks like it could have been taken where I grew up. I couldn't find many photos 'inside' a dust storm in the country - its seems only people from the cities took the time to take photos.

 

VS

 

 

Huh... Yeah I can see the similarity

 

 

[Dirmagnos]

Dust storms, as they are portrayed in this crappy movie, would cause a nuclear winter -type of effect.

[Mikhail_Reign]

Yeah what they shos in the movie 'I think' is meant to be a cross between a cyclone, a lighting storm and dust storm. I figure it's because cyclones are a top end thing (there is normally a few every year - in '76 the NT capital city got wiped off the map and they rebuilt it 20 mile up the road) and lighting storms / dust storms happen the same time of year.

[Wastelander]

54 minutes ago, Mikhail_Reign said:

Yeah what they shos in the movie 'I think' is meant to be a cross between a cyclone, a lighting storm and dust storm. I figure it's because cyclones are a top end thing (there is normally a few every year - in '76 the NT capital city got wiped off the map and they rebuilt it 20 mile up the road) and lighting storms / dust storms happen the same time of year.

Damn, Straya's hardcore. 

[Mikhail_Reign]

 That's a really great example - it will be hot as hell for a few months - a few 40C+ days, always 35C+. Dry as a bone. Never a cloud in the sky. The one day a cold change will blow in - temp drops easy 10 degrees in minutes. Half the time the heavens open and it POURS rain. Sometimes it also turns into a wiked lightshow. Goes on for ages.

 

so you add that plus the picture above, and 'cyclone winds'. I think it's intentional.

[akodo1]

On 10/22/2016 at 11:12 AM, MarrowStone said:

@akodo1

I come from the same area too as, "The children's(schoolhouse) Blizzard in the midwest, there was also a "Great Blizzard of 1888 on the east coast too, but far less terryfying as the midwest one. It killed over 200 people!, a lot children.. one older girl was found dead, frozen standing up with her back to a tree, with the younger ones dead and huddled up to her legs.

yes, got the dates mixed up, I'm from the area on the south dakota minnesota border.

Some of the factors of the children's blizzard is that the weather was very cold AND the snow was extremely fine, some described it like flour, which really helped it take visibility down to LITERALLY not being able to see your hand if you stretched it out in front of you.

[MarrowStone]

2 hours ago, akodo1 said:

yes, got the dates mixed up, I'm from the area on the south dakota minnesota border.

Some of the factors of the children's blizzard is that the weather was very cold AND the snow was extremely fine, some described it like flour, which really helped it take visibility down to LITERALLY not being able to see your hand if you stretched it out in front of you.

Interesting, I cant remember thpigh, was the snow dry and fine? Trudging through that stuff when its fresh feels equivalent in difficulty wading through water! 

Another factor that played in was the unnatural warm weather just before it hit, and the time it did, it was when the most people were out away from home in clothes that weren't up to the challenge of such frigid temperatures. I wonder how many lives couldve been saved if they had our current weather forecasts, and such.

[Hotzn]

On 16.10.2016 at 9:13 AM, Mikhail_Reign said:

Currently if you face your character in a direction, he will forever look in that exact direction forever more, unless you move the mouse.

 

This means that blizzards are completely harmless as long as you know the direction you have to walk. As long as you know how long it takes roughly to get somewhere, you can figure out if you can get there before you freeze and then step outside, point the mouse in the correct direction, jam the W key down with a fork (or use a macro) and then go eat dinner.

 

So far my tests with this have resulted in me being able to hit a 5m or so target over the lenght of an entire map. I've actually gotten to the point where I use dead reckoning and timing to even change course in the blizzard (with NO visual references) with only a slight reduction in accuracy (currently wind buffering only affects speed so you may actually be a few seconds ahead or behind where you 'think' you are).

 

What I am suggesting is that, in addition to affecting your movement speed, gusts of wind would also slightly adjust your 'aim', making it require input to remain on a true path. With a hypotetical gust coming from the right, I suggest that the camera be 'pushed' not only left, but most importantly DOWN. This would represent the character trying to protect them self from the wind, but would also momentarily break any line of sight the player had with any nearby visual reference points they might have had in the blizzard, forcing them to quickly reevaluate their surroundings to confirm the direction of travel.

Brilliant, +1.

[cekivi]

In a recent game I lost my bearing while climbing Signal Hill in Pleasant Valley. I was doing fine but a blizzard blew in and I could no longer see the radio tower. No matter, I had my bearing so I couldn't get lost. Then I stopped to harvest some old man's beard and when I resumed walking I was ever so slightly off... and I went in the wrong direction. I almost froze to death walking along the edge of the cliff looking for the salvation of some chain link fence! 

So, getting lost in blizzards in game is very stressful and adding this mechanic would make in game blizzards far more of a menace than they are currently. I already upvoted the topic but having inadvertently recreated the premise in my own game I can attest that it's both really cool and nerve racking!