The Bunny AI needs a look over.

[Gustaaf]

The bunnies in the game need more pauses (so, I can attempt a bow shot). They also need to have some disadvantages with the weather, such as dying in blizzard if caught in one. Or not being able to spot you even if you are down-wind. Right now, they are jittery even if you point your (relaxed) bow at them. Being motionless should or could be and attack advantage if they stray closely. 

[EternityTide]

Snares are used to capture rabbits, not bows. Whilst I agree that rabbits need a idling motion and grazing animation, you shouldn't use a bow to hunt rabbits. 

[MarrowStone]

I do like the idea of finding frozen rabbits, whenever i hunt irl i find at least two. Kind of like a beachcombing mechanic but way more rare and with no set spawn points to keep you guessing.

Also a grazing, and a "pause" would be nice as well. Rabbits like to pause and sit still in hopes you dont see them.

[Gustaaf]

21 hours ago, EternityTide said:

Snares are used to capture rabbits, not bows. Whilst I agree that rabbits need a idling motion and grazing animation, you shouldn't use a bow to hunt rabbits. 

Well I do this a lot, at some desperate stage in your survival, you just want the quick kill where possible. So yes, shooting a bunny is desired. I managed to kill one running. It was luck indeed, but it can work. Now the idling and grazing part would be welcome along with the element of surprise. And yes, the incidental frozen bunny after a blizzard all the more welcoming too.

[ElvisHunter]

22 hours ago, EternityTide said:

Snares are used to capture rabbits, not bows

Next you'll be telling us we cut our sandwiches the wrong direction.

[EternityTide]

20 minutes ago, ElvisHunter said:

Next you'll be telling us we cut our sandwiches the wrong direction.

No, next I'll be hearing people complaining that arrows wear out too quickly, and that there aren't enough birch saplings to produce more arrows, and that maples are too rare, and that Desolation Point is too far away, and why can't Hinterland add a forge closer to the map they are currently occupying and how unfair all this is...

I've been playing this game since it came out, and I've been haunting these forums for almost two years now, I have a pretty good understanding of how people respond to an improperly used mechanic when it doesn't work for them.

[ElvisHunter]

12 minutes ago, EternityTide said:

No, next I'll be hearing people complaining that arrows wear out too quickly, and that there aren't enough birch saplings to produce more arrows, and that maples are too rare, and that Desolation Point is too far away, and why can't Hinterland add a forge closer to the map they are currently occupying and how unfair all this is...

I've been playing this game since it came out, and I've been haunting these forums for almost two years now, I have a pretty good understanding of how people respond to an improperly used mechanic when it doesn't work for them.

I hear Hinterlands is hiring. 

[akodo1]

On 9/19/2016 at 3:42 PM, EternityTide said:

Snares are used to capture rabbits, not bows. Whilst I agree that rabbits need a idling motion and grazing animation, you shouldn't use a bow to hunt rabbits. 

to be fair, the bow's description does imply it should be used for hunting small game.

[Gustaaf]

And here is my bunny kill by bow, done today... Notice, no tracks leading to and from the hare/rabbit. Bit odd that the arrow is so distant from it... but heck, a kill right?

[Boston123]

7 minutes ago, akodo1 said:

to be fair, the bow's description does imply it should be used for hunting small game.

And, according to my survival training, you don't hunt small game.

Hunting small game is, quite literally, a waste of energy, time and material. You will spend more than you will get out of it.

That is why you hunt large game, and trap small game. With the same amount of energy it takes you to stalk and shoot a rabbit, you can make and check 10 snares.

[Boston123]

Just now, Gustaaf said:

And here is my bunny kill by bow, done today... Notice, no tracks leading to and from the hare/rabbit. Bit odd that the arrow is so distant from it... but heck, a kill right?

If an arrow didn't pass through both sides of a rabbit, you probably shouldn't shoot it at something you actually want to kill. Not kill cleanly, that is.

[Gustaaf]

Oh, I intended to kill it for the sake of the fur etc and food. I play to survive as real as possible, not mucking about with my character etc. I was close to the pond for fishing mainly, noticed my fur mittens were wearing down... needed this of course, as I don't leave my traps unattended. All my good, extra loot is at Timberwolf mountain. Could really use a donkey in this game!  

[akodo1]

38 minutes ago, Boston123 said:

And, according to my survival training, you don't hunt small game.

Hunting small game is, quite literally, a waste of energy, time and material. You will spend more than you will get out of it.

That is why you hunt large game, and trap small game. With the same amount of energy it takes you to stalk and shoot a rabbit, you can make and check 10 snares.

 

Actually I've found snaring to be quite hard.  It's really dependant on understanding the pathing of the animal.  

Traditionally, going after game like rabbits, snare and bow were both used, especially based on time of year.  Snares were more successful when there was more underbrush, bows were the preferred tool during the winter when there was more visibility.  Arrows for hunting rabbits and birds often just had sharpened wooden points, or were even blunt.

Now, it's quite possible that in the survival training they give for say military pilots, they teach that it's a waste of time going after rabbits with a bow, go after something bigger, but that might more be a case of short term low skill vs longer term more chance to practice your archery skills = makes sense to go after rabbits.

 

p.s. from some of the survival stuff I've seen especially ones that had sections on snare/trap building, the bow was included only as a 'firebow'.  If you were going to kill a deer you'd be best off using a deadfall trap vs trying to make a bow then trying to get good at archery then trying to get good at sneaking up on things.

[ElvisHunter]

1 hour ago, Boston123 said:

And, according to my survival training, you don't hunt small game.

Hunting small game is, quite literally, a waste of energy, time and material. You will spend more than you will get out of it.

That is why you hunt large game, and trap small game. With the same amount of energy it takes you to stalk and shoot a rabbit, you can make and check 10 snares.

Seeing as how any real survival training you've had is intended to keep you alive in the real world i would take it with a grain of salt when applying it to a video game. Survival training (as far as i understand it as a licensed NYS wilderness camping guide) should teach you how to extricate yourself from a dangerous situation and would have few applications in a sandbox where we intend to spend the rest of our lives. 

[EternityTide]

30 minutes ago, ElvisHunter said:

Seeing as how any real survival training you've had is intended to keep you alive in the real world i would take it with a grain of salt . 

However, @Boston123 is not wrong. Rabbits provide 1-1.5 kilograms of meat per kill, which is approximately 450 - 675 calories per kill, meaning that to sustain yourself, you would need to kill 4-5 rabbits per day in order to not starve. Hunting the blighters, plus filleting them, depending on weather conditions, would lead to an extremely narrow calorie profit margin at best, if not downright making a loss.

Now I have never had much success with snares, instead I hunt large game like deer, or the occasional wolf, but my point stands; once you factor in the harvesting costs of saplings, the crafting of bows and arrows, the harvesting and the cooking, overall you will make a net loss of calories, making bow-hunting of rabbits highly uneconomical.

[ElvisHunter]

 

12 minutes ago, EternityTide said:

you would need to kill 4-5 rabbits per day in order to not starve

You do not need 1800+ calories a day to survive.

[ElvisHunter]

BTW have you seen the promotional material presented by Hinterlands themselves? The one in which they advertise shooting rabbits with a bow? 

 

[EternityTide]

19 minutes ago, ElvisHunter said:

You do not need 1800+ calories a day to survive.

The average, athletically active individual requires approximately 2000 calories per day to maintain body mass. In arctic conditions, this required daily calorie intake can soar as high as 6000 calories per day, but in general cold climates, the average male requires 3000+ calories per day to maintain body mass.

Bringing this back to the game, my average daily calorie burn is 2170 calories per day, and my average day consists of waking up, sorting inventory, cooking and eating breakfast, going outside for an hour of firewood collection, storing firewood, and then I would go for three hours of ice fishing, or, now that I have moved into PV, an hour's worth of hunting and field dressing deer. I would then go home, cook my days catch, sharpen the tools, patch any clothing that needed it, ate dinner and then killed an hour before dark by reading a book. Ten hours sleep, rinse and repeat. Not much strenuous activity there, yet I still burn approximately 2200 calories per day.

Edit: as for the video, it looks more to me like Hinterland showing off their new bow and arrow mechanic. This would not be advisable practice. But whatever, if you want to waste your energy hunting small game with a bow, be my guest, just don't ask the developers to change the game to accommodate your inefficient playstyle. @Gustaaf, I don't mean your suggestion, I fully agree that the rabbit animation needs improvement

[ElvisHunter]

@EternityTide Let me use more precise language. You do not need 1800 cal a day in The Long Dark to survive. Therefore suggesting that you need 4-5 rabbits a day to survive is misleading. You can survive for long periods on much less. 

[EternityTide]

12 minutes ago, ElvisHunter said:

@EternityTide Let me use more precise language. You do not need 1800 cal a day in The Long Dark to survive. Therefore suggesting that you need 4-5 rabbits a day to survive is misleading. You can survive for long periods on much less. 

Not. If. You. Burn. 2200. Calories. Per. Day.

You still have a deficit of 400 calories, which has to come from somewhere. 

If you sit in the trappers homestead for the entirety of your gameplay, doing nothing, occasionally walking around to fend off cabin fever and collect more saplings for your rabbit-arrows, sure, you're not going to use much more than 1800 calories per day.

If you are like me, who is relatively active, but plays a conservative style that minimises excessive exertion, then you will be burning in excess of 2000 calories per day. Of course, you could also play where you constantly starve yourself, using your condition as an extension of your hunger bar, but thats not really playing, and a lot of people regard that as an exploit.

[ElvisHunter]

1 hour ago, EternityTide said:

but thats not really playing

Your opinion.

If it was really viewed as an exploit, after all the attention "hibernation" has garnered it would have been changed by now. IMO not using your condition as a resource is hamstringing yourself in a manner similar to using a bow on a rabbit.  Seeing as how we have come full circle at last I'll point out that each should be allowed to cut their sandwich they way they please without being told their style is wrong.

[Boston123]

3 hours ago, ElvisHunter said:

 

You do not need 1800+ calories a day to survive.

Maybe if you starve yourself, both in-game and in reality.

In a TLD-type situation, I wouldn't be limiting myself to anything less than 3000 kCal / day, and, preferably, would much rather be eating 5000.

Of course, TLD isn't that realistic at all, so who am I to argue? 

[EternityTide]

9 hours ago, ElvisHunter said:

 IMO not using your condition as a resource is hamstringing yourself in a manner similar to using a bow on a rabbit.  

Be that as it may, but I won't die from a single wolf encounter because I have been abusing a game mechanic. I use my condition as a safety net so that in the event that I get mauled by a bear or wolf, get an infection or food poisoning, I don't immediately die. There has been some chatter recently about introducing a punishment for intentionally starving yourself, which suggests that it will soon be nerfed.

[MarrowStone]

If calories went in the negatives and starvation couldnt be cured until your store returns to zero thatd be an instant fix along with a progressive fatigue and stamina reduction.

Therefore you wouldnt technically be using the ghost calories upon starving and itd be slightly more punishing (but not too much unless you go 3+ days)

[nicko]

another idea, I see a bunny running towards me or then near and right past me I should be able to wack / swing my branch hit it. Same goes with any other wild life, deer? ha get out the huge chopping knife.