v332 various feedback

[Hotzn]

Started another stalker run in ML to get a better feel for the current version and have the following comments:

1. When returning to my base at dusk I heard a music cue I can't remember having heard before. Something a little dramatic and sad with violins in it. Liked it very much.

2. There seems to be something wrong with fog and shadows cast on the floor. I saw very clear tree shadows on the floor as if the sun was shining brightly. But when I looked up, the trees and the sky were shrouded in fog. I dimly remember seeing this reported a while ago. Either it wasn't fixed or has recurred.

3. Also I am convinced now that there is something wrong with indoor lighting. It has definitely become a lot darker recently. But when I step into one of the light beams from the windows, everything becomes illuminated - even the dark corners far from where the light beams from the windows reach. This seems strange, because in real life it would be vice versa - if I wanted to check out dark corners, I would have to step out of the light beam. Something else I noted - sometimes there is a disparity between outside weather and inside lighting. I stepped inside at dusk, it was already quite dark outside. But inside the light beams coming through the windows were pretty strong and conveyed a feeling of daytime.

4. This may be something that was introduced before Tireless Menace, but I only just took notice - the snowing and the snow drifting on the wind looks much better now, because it does not just fall around me, but also a little off to the distance. Much, much better than before. It would be perfect if heavy snowfall would also reduce visibility like fog does, but I don't know if this can be done technically.

5. I may be wrong, but I have the impression that the sound of winds blowing around the cabins is more varied now. Also the sound changes when I step out of the wind. Nice.

6. When I bring up the UI by pressing TAB, it interferes with the icons popping up in the lower left corner (eg the freezing icon or the starving icon). This looks a little messy. So maybe the UI should be placed a little higher, or the freezing/starving etc. icons should go into the lower right corner.

7. The amount of loot and the way it is spread in ML seems quite alright so far. I don't rush through the map, but rather take my time. Prefabricated food keeps me going just so, while I collected my first deerskins from the carcasses which lie around from the start. Very little wolf sighting so far. Where are they hiding?

8. Discovered the climbing rope at the Western Access and the cave "upstairs", which I think is new. There is a corpse floating in the cave and a piece od cedar wood which also floats. So there seems to be something magical about the cave...

[Wasteland Watcher]

 Just wanted to mention that I found that cave as well but there was nothing floating in it, all seemed normal. 

 However, in Pleasant Valley I came across a place where branches were floating about two or 3 feet above the ground. 

 Regarding the other things you mentioned that might be bugs:

I agree with you on the interior lighting  because I've noticed the same thing. 

 It seems a lot darker inside now than it did before so I have an "on the fly" monitor setting on my laptop ( it's darker but manageable on my desk top ) that has the gamma turned down quite a bit. I set it back to the normal setting when I go outside.

I've also seen the outdoor shadows showing up on cloudy/foggy days. 

 

[hauteecolerider]

7 hours ago, Hotzn said:

Something else I noted - sometimes there is a disparity between outside weather and inside lighting. I stepped inside at dusk, it was already quite dark outside. But inside the light beams coming through the windows were pretty strong and conveyed a feeling of daytime.

I have especially noted that in the Trappers Homestead. The light beams always come from the western windows, even at dawn, when they should be coming through the eastern one.

7 hours ago, Hotzn said:

It would be perfect if heavy snowfall would also reduce visibility like fog does, but I don't know if this can be done technically.

I think it already exists . . . I was walking home one night in heavy snowfall, and felt like I couldn't see more than a few meters in front of me. It was windless, so it was a very cool effect. I literally groped my way home from the Dam to Trappers. Almost meditative . . . 

[Hotzn]

Continued my ML run a bit and have further remarks:

9. Found a "Broken metal control box" in the dam. I can't remember having seen that before. Is it new? Intriguing for sure.

10. Could it be the sharpening skill for the whetstone has been changed? After raising my skill to 35 the efficiency went from 3% per sharpening to 4%. I imagine this change happened at a higher skill before. Might be wrong though. Anyway, it doesn't damage to improve the efficiency of the whetstone and make it a rarer item (only found one so far in ML).

11. Found an "Expedition Parka" in the safe in the dam. Definitely haven't seen that before (at least not under this name - the graphics might be the old "premium winter coat"). It's a bit tattered, but if repaired will be very warm and grant good wind protection. I like it. I always thought that the crafted clothes are a bit too good compared to modern prefabricated clothes. So if the latter get a buff, I'm in.

[cekivi]

17 minutes ago, Hotzn said:

11. Found an "Expedition Parka" in the safe in the dam. Definitely haven't seen that before (at least not under this name - the graphics might be the old "premium winter coat"). It's a bit tattered, but if repaired will be very warm and grant good wind protection. I like it. I always thought that the crafted clothes are a bit too good compared to modern prefabricated clothes. So if the latter get a buff, I'm in.

Some of the items in the game got renamed so that their name reflects their condition. For instance "Ratty Sweater", "Torn Jeans",... I can't remember what the good descriptors are actually

If the image in the inventory is the same as a pre-update coat than that's probably what you're experiencing. I don't remember seeing new clothing on the change log

[Hotzn]

Aaand... further remarks:

12. The radial menu (menue? - never can remember which one is right). I have absolutely no emotions here. The new menu works fine for me, the old one did as well. I saw someone complain that you have to hold down the space bar while choosing from the new menu, but I have no issue with that.

13. Parasites & wolf AI. These points are worthy of threads of their own (and I think such threads already exist, shall have another look in a minute), and I haven't commented on them earlier, because I wanted to see a little more of them in the game first. The changes in wolf AI seem excellent to me, I have the impression that wolves behave more "naturally" (whatever that means) and in a diverse manner. Above all, I have the impression that wolves notice me from further away than before. I think I read somewhere that they did so before, but did not display it. Be it as it may, to me as a player it is important to see some kind of reaction in them from afar. Definitely an improvement in my view, as it makes me proceed with more planning and precaution. Also, they seem to often turn up in packs now. Menacing, intriguing, I like it very much. Can't wait for pack behaviour...

The parasites... well, I don't know. I guess I am someone who is very ready to accept many things as game mechanisms and put reality somewhere else. From this point of view, they are well-designed. I will now diversify my diet, only eating a wolf steak once in 24 hours and complementing with deer (at the moment) or rabbits (later) or - as long as it is available - canned food. I have a further choice to try and leave wolves and bears out of my diet altogether, so getting a risk reduction in exchange for (potential) resources (=wolf/bear meat). So far, so good. However - I kind of understand why apparently many players have a problem accepting parasites as part of the game. Because it "should" feel like an achievement to kill and harvest a wolf or - even better - a bear, and now people feel they can't reap the benefits. The parasite solution is clever, but it still... how to say this... feels kind of second best. Because we all know that thoroughly cooking infested meat will remove any parasites. to my knowledge at least. Or am I wrong? Another reason why players might dislike the parasites is that we are used to avoid anything coloured red in our menus - wounds, afflictions and so on. So I presume (but this is merely a presumption and not based on factual evidence) that some players don't take a calculated risk, but avoid wolf and bear meat altogether. I'm sure that is not what the devs intend/intended.

14. Sleep & rest. Also worthy of a separate thread (which already exists if I am not mistaken), but anyway, I'll drop some short thoughts here: This is another mechanic I can readily accept. But - just like the parasites - not immediately and with open arms. The basics are very clear - you don't sleep any more when you are not tired. In real life - please forgive the comparison - I can always sleep, even after sleeping 15 hours straight. But I can very much accept the thought of not being able to sleep when having slept enough in a game. I have suggested in another thread and will repeat here (without wanting to make it a strong point) that I slightly dislike the term "pass time", since it seems an equivalent to "waste time". This may be a personal thing, but maybe I am not alone in this. I would prefer if the options were termed "sleep" and "rest" (the text when waking up ("you wake up fully rested") could be changed to "you are not tired anymore". And to avoid micromanagement (which I dislike), there should be a third, big button beneath the two, offering me "sleep and rest until dawn", which would let me wake up at dawn, my fatigue bar fully restored (that is, if I got enough sleep until dawn). Because I often find myself in the situation of waking up before dawn without wanting to get up (waiting for daylight saves resources). I then have to "pass time" a little until my fatigue has gone down enough to allow me to "rest" for another hour, so that finally I get up at dawn more or less fully rested. Bah, micromanagement. So the basic line for the new sleep and rest mechanic for me is: It's interesting, but not quite there yet.

[Hotzn]

15. Something has changed about the decay rates, at least as far as meat is concerned. I realized this when returning to the Camp Office after a short trip to the dam. I had left more or less a whole deer and the greater part of a wolf in the cabinet upstairs by the bunk beds. Suddenly everything was down to some 35% and the next morning around 25%. It seems to decay at roughly 1% every two hours. Searching Steam and Hinterland forums, I found it confirmed that ambient temperature now influences the decay rate. Basically, I like that. Given that temperature in the Camp Office is -3°C, however, the decay rate seems pretty steep at the moment. Also I'm not quite sure what the alternative is - put it outside on the porch? I'll try that, but it is a bit counter-intuitive, since I would expect it to attract wildlife and be consumed by some animal. And If containers still play a role (which I think would not be a bad thing), I immediately feel tempted to "use" the corpse of that generic bearded guy lying in the snow opposite the door...

[cekivi]

The consensus on the forums is that meat now has to be stored outside. Like you said, a little counterintuitive given the cabin's -3C but a good improvement overall

[Hotzn]

6 hours ago, cekivi said:

The consensus on the forums is that meat now has to be stored outside. Like you said, a little counterintuitive given the cabin's -3C but a good improvement overall

Exactly.

16. I saw some deer... erm... footprints? Pawprints? Hoofprints? Anyway, you know what I mean. Never saw them before. They look cool, really 3D like the new footprints from our avatar. The deer apparently made them when shying away from me, and just for a couple of steps. I followed it, but no further marks in the snow. Hmmm... so currently they don't serve for anything but coolness, we can't follow a trail. But maybe we will be able to in the future. It would be awesome having to follow game trails when hunting.

[Hotzn]

Further feedback:

17. I can still quickly drop all my clothes before fighting a wolf and put them back on afterwards. Maybe it could be made so that taking clothes off and putting them on has some kind of duration? Maybe not gloves and cap, but trousers, working boots, coats and pullovers. Just to make it more difficult for people to just throw off all clothes when already pusued by a wolf. Also the damage a wolf does to a naked player could be increased.

18. Referring to my No. 16 above - I am indeed now using the corpse as a container for meat. Just because I am the tidy type who doesn't like his meat to lie around the porch. It's a bit weird though. When "opening" the corpse, the menu even says something like "container content" or some such. This could be worked on. And I would now advocate for outside containers to be added if food decays faster indoors (which I think is basically good). At least wherever we don't have handy alternatives (like the car trunk at the Farmstead in PV).

19. The second time I ate wolf meat and loaded a 4% parasite risk on me, I actually contracted them. OK, it's 10 doses of reishi tea or antibiotics now to cure them. Apparently, I can eat wolf meat without any disadvantage while I am having parasites. Hmmm...

20. I harvested some deer-wolf combos and got thinking. It makes a lot of sense to get the combo, as you get both the deer and the wolf with just a single bullet or fight. That could be one of the reasons people eat so much wolf meat. A possible solution could be to make the deer just faster than the wolf. However, that might lead to results where people don't get the combo anymore, but only go for wolves. Hmmm...

[cekivi]

36 minutes ago, Hotzn said:

20. I harvested some deer-wolf combos and got thinking. It makes a lot of sense to get the combo, as you get both the deer and the wolf with just a single bullet or fight. That could be one of the reasons people eat so much wolf meat. A possible solution could be to make the deer just faster than the wolf. However, that might lead to results where people don't get the combo anymore, but only go for wolves. Hmmm...

I for one always try and order the deer-wolf combo with a cola and a side of bulrush, hold the onions

[hauteecolerider]

On May 8, 2016 at 5:49 PM, Hotzn said:

Exactly.

16. I saw some deer... erm... footprints? Pawprints? Hoofprints? Anyway, you know what I mean. Never saw them before. They look cool, really 3D like the new footprints from our avatar. The deer apparently made them when shying away from me, and just for a couple of steps. I followed it, but no further marks in the snow. Hmmm... so currently they don't serve for anything but coolness, we can't follow a trail. But maybe we will be able to in the future. It would be awesome having to follow game trails when hunting.

One day I was bored. It was sunny, not windy. A perfect TLD day. So I spent time crouched by Trapper's Cabin watching the five deer in the field below. I noticed that they made tracks. And the tracks were quite persistent. In fact, persistent enough to create an interesting pattern.

[Scyzara]

8 hours ago, Hotzn said:

17. I can still quickly drop all my clothes before fighting a wolf and put them back on afterwards. Maybe it could be made so that taking clothes off and putting them on has some kind of duration? Maybe not gloves and cap, but trousers, working boots, coats and pullovers. Just to make it more difficult for people to just throw off all clothes when already pusued by a wolf. Also the damage a wolf does to a naked player could be increased

I hope the new frostbite affliction is going to address the striptease issue. But I agree, a stronger impact of clothing (there already is some effect, but it's rather minor) during wolf-handfights would be great as well. Fighting naked should come at a much higher price than currently.

8 hours ago, Hotzn said:

19. The second time I ate wolf meat and loaded a 4% parasite risk on me, I actually contracted them. OK, it's 10 doses of reishi tea or antibiotics now to cure them. Apparently, I can eat wolf meat without any disadvantage while I am having parasites. Hmmm...

That's exactly why I dislike the huge randomness of the current mechanics.

I've been living on a 2 piece of bear / 1 piece of deer meat diet (4% parasite infection risk each day) for more than 80 days so far and contracted parasites only once during this whole period of time. It's nothing but luck how often you get parasites, hence people have a hell of a time to assess the risks of consuming predator meat in a somehow "objective" way.

Somebody unlucky who contracted parasites twice in a row despite just a 1 or 4% risk is likely to shun predator meat completely in the future, whereas someone like me (who didn't even contract parasites for 14 days when living on a 100% wolf meat diet) is likely to continue consuming large amounts of predator meat. Neither of these two player reactions is probably really intended.

[ElvisHunter]

12 hours ago, Hotzn said:

17. I can still quickly drop all my clothes before fighting a wolf and put them back on afterwards. Maybe it could be made so that taking clothes off and putting them on has some kind of duration? Maybe not gloves and cap, but trousers, working boots, coats and pullovers. Just to make it more difficult for people to just throw off all clothes when already pusued by a wolf. Also the damage a wolf does to a naked player could be increased.

Wolf coming, better grab my wool sweater with my toe!

[Hotzn]

21. Just saw that snow drifting along in the wind fills my footprints and makes them disappear later. Nice!

22. The new random wolf spawning is excellent. I just had the return path to my base cut off by wolves suddenly roaming about there. Had to make a new plan, go to another shelter and make a temporary base there. The next day, I took a detour and made a safe return. Also, I am proceeding through the terrain much more carefully. Wolves are more unpredictable. Perfect!

23. Getting accustomed to the parasites. It seems my max. condition is slowly going down while I have them. That's manageable. And I need 10 doses of either antibiotics or Reishi tea to cure them. Quite a lot, but also manageable. Since my condition drop is slow, I might even be able to procure the cure if I haven't got enough medication at hand. Actually, this seems quite well-designed. My only gripe is that getting parasites from cooked meat somehow feels a bit wrong.

24. I have yet to encounter a bear or find a Maple sapling in ML. I don't miss them much atm. Not every map needs to have everything in it. Just my opinion. Ah, and I haven't found a can opener yet, although I've looted practically all of ML.

[Drifter Man]

On 5/9/2016 at 1:15 AM, Hotzn said:

18. Referring to my No. 16 above - I am indeed now using the corpse as a container for meat. Just because I am the tidy type who doesn't like his meat to lie around the porch. It's a bit weird though. When "opening" the corpse, the menu even says something like "container content" or some such. This could be worked on. And I would now advocate for outside containers to be added if food decays faster indoors (which I think is basically good). At least wherever we don't have handy alternatives (like the car trunk at the Farmstead in PV).

An alternative solution would be to give the player the ability to move certain containers (like metal and plastic boxes, backpacks - not corpses, please) to wherever they like.

On 5/5/2016 at 0:36 AM, Hotzn said:

9. Found a "Broken metal control box" in the dam. I can't remember having seen that before. Is it new? Intriguing for sure.

Not new  I've been only able to cut it up for scrap metal, nothing else.

[Hotzn]

Thanks for the additional info & comments to everyone. More feedback...

25. Animals seem to get stuck in the terrain a lot now. I am seeing both deer and wolves running on the spot a lot. It seems a wolf running on the spot will "wake up", bark and come after me if I approach. The deer on the other hand will happily run on the spot while I stand next to it. There is something wrong here, and I'm pretty sure it came with one of the last updates.

26. We also have bear pawprints now! I didn't see them in my own game, but while I was watching Scyzara broadcasting the "inventory list run". The bear pawprints are beautiful, I like them.

27. Something strange happened - I got caught on the rail tracks near Camp Office and couldn't cross them. Had to move a little to the side to get over them. Has something changed here? I must have crossed them a million times in all places, but can't remember ever getting caught.

[tnbp]

On 5/10/2016 at 2:49 AM, Scyzara said:

I've been living on a 2 piece of bear / 1 piece of deer meat diet (4% parasite infection risk each day) for more than 80 days so far and contracted parasites only once during this whole period of time. It's nothing but luck how often you get parasites, hence people have a hell of a time to assess the risks of consuming predator meat in a somehow "objective" way.

Somebody unlucky who contracted parasites twice in a row despite just a 1 or 4% risk is likely to shun predator meat completely in the future, whereas someone like me (who didn't even contract parasites for 14 days when living on a 100% wolf meat diet) is likely to continue consuming large amounts of predator meat. Neither of these two player reactions is probably really intended.

This has happened to me.  Twice now I've eaten two pieces of wolf meat and both times I contracted parasites with a 4% chance.  Those are the only two times I've eaten wolf meat, at all (and I only ate it because I didn't know about the new food decay mechanic and set off for a few days to PV from ML and had most of my food go bad while I was away, leaving me with no choice but to eat the wolf meat, which was all I had.)  Rough mechanic if you're as unlucky as I have been.

[Drifter Man]

3 hours ago, Hotzn said:

25. Animals seem to get stuck in the terrain a lot now. I am seeing both deer and wolves running on the spot a lot. It seems a wolf running on the spot will "wake up", bark and come after me if I approach. The deer on the other hand will happily run on the spot while I stand next to it. There is something wrong here, and I'm pretty sure it came with one of the last updates.

This is actually an old one, I observed it in v.302 already. Unfortunately, animals - deer, wolves, bears, rabbits - get stuck very often. Sometimes they get unstuck on their own accord, sometimes they get unstuck when reacting to the player, and sometimes they just stay in that place forever. I don't know if this is happening more frequently now than before, but it is definitely a problem that should be looked into.

3 hours ago, Hotzn said:

27. Something strange happened - I got caught on the rail tracks near Camp Office and couldn't cross them. Had to move a little to the side to get over them. Has something changed here? I must have crossed them a million times in all places, but can't remember ever getting caught.

This, on the other hand, is new. I too get caught in more places than before. Railway tracks now "exist in space" and your walk gets bumpy when you walk over them - unlike before when you just sort of passed through smoothly. I can't say this is an improvement as the motion doesn't look very natural. Maybe the remodeled, more complex terrain has to do with our getting stuck in various places.

[ElvisHunter]

28 minutes ago, Drifter Man said:

This, on the other hand, is new. I too get caught in more places than before. Railway tracks now "exist in space" and your walk gets bumpy when you walk over them - unlike before when you just sort of passed through smoothly. I can't say this is an improvement as the motion doesn't look very natural. Maybe the remodeled, more complex terrain has to do with our getting stuck in various places.

There is a sound now (was there before) if you stay right on the rails it sounds like you're walking on metal. Also there seems to be a slight movement bonus moving over these smooth hard surfaces as opposed to the snow. I feel like the stamina bar drains slightly slower when running on these surfaces too. Might just be my imagination though.

[Stytch Fingal]

5 hours ago, Hotzn said:

27. Something strange happened - I got caught on the rail tracks near Camp Office and couldn't cross them. Had to move a little to the side to get over them. Has something changed here? I must have crossed them a million times in all places, but can't remember ever getting caught.

I know the spot. It happened to me more than once, so I stopped and looked. It's a place where there is less snow than usual at the side of the tracks, and so the railroad ties are more exposed and the character's feet won't lift high enough to step over the lip that creates. The same thing happens at the very end of the porch of the Camp Office (the end with the sign), ensuring the character has to use the steps beside the sign. That happened to me there first in v.302, which makes me think the effect has been around awhile and is likely intentional.