Rabbit wishes

[Hotzn]

While playing recently, some wishes sprung up for the rabbits. It might be because my current base is on Jackrabbit Island, so

a) I see rabbits everyday and

b) rabbits are an integral part of my diet.

So...

1. No rabbit sliding

Currently, dead rabbits "slide" down slopes. I set up snares in front of the main entrance of the cabin on Jackrabbit's and at the entrance to its little porch. Since I am well stocked on skins, I don't harvest them completely. While the remaining material is rotting on their little bones, they slide downhill - every day (or maybe even every time I leave the cabin?) I find them a bit further down from where they were caught in the snare. This is not only a bit weird (and immersion-breaking), it also leads to some kind of rabbit-carpet building up in front of my door. The solution could be something drastic such as this: Make any unharvested rabbit remains disappear overnight when the player sleeps at least one hour. Surely some kind of wildlife would take them away.

2. Leftovers...

I am ashamed to say that I don't harvest the rabbit meat completely. I take 1 kg and leave the rest. This is because the little scraps do not seem worth the effort to cook them. They take 20 minutes of cooking time and - with rabbit meat being the worst meat in terms of cal/kg ratio anyway - seem inefficent. I think I am not the only player handling rabbits this way. The consequence is that there are all these dead rabbits around the house. In a real survival situation, I would certainly not behave like this - wasting precious food and potentially attracting predators to my base. Solution: Reduce cooking time for scrap meat. And maybe also make the remains disappear over night, as above. And: Make wolf visits a lot more frequent where dead rabbits have been left and "disappeared". Surely a wolf would come back to places where it found something yummy.

3. Rabbit personality

I already mentioned in another thread that I like it very much how rabbits now sit upright occasionally. It would be even cooler if they were visibly noticing me. Like pausing, sitting up on their hind legs and looking over attentively. And then running away as I make a further move towards them. I would also love to see rabbits foraging for food in the snow, sniffing here and there, and then finding something and eating it. These little things can make so much difference in a game that goes for atmosphere and immersion.

4. Rabbits shunning dead rabbits

It strikes me as odd that I set up my snares in a carpet of rabbit carcasses and new rabbits get caught in plenty. I would think that every animal tries to avoid places where dead comrades abound. Really even the dumbest animal must know that such places are not places to hang around and live long to tell about it. So maybe it should be made so that if there is a rabbit carcass in the vicinity of a snare, that snare will not catch anything for as long as the carcass is there.

5. Rabbit holes

What about rabbit holes in the ground here and there? This is where rabbits could disappear into when the weather turns bad and where they could reappear from when the sun comes out again. That would be very cute. When rabbits run away from a predator (be it the player or a wolf), they could occasionally disappear into a rabbit hole (in which case the wolf would sniff at the hole, bark into it and wander off). At other times they would panic, miss the hole and just run across the map as they do currently.

Well... just my Sunday morning rabbit wishes...

[Eachna]

While playing recently, some wishes sprung up for the rabbits. It might be because my current base is on Jackrabbit Island, so

3. Rabbit personality

I already mentioned in another thread that I like it very much how rabbits now sit upright occasionally. It would be even cooler if they were visibly noticing me. Like pausing, sitting up on their hind legs and looking over attentively. And then running away as I make a further move towards them. I would also love to see rabbits foraging for food in the snow, sniffing here and there, and then finding something and eating it. These little things can make so much difference in a game that goes for atmosphere and immersion.

I would like to see deer do this (pause and forage and "look around" more).

I'd also like the 'whole rabbit' to be more useful. You get _too many_ rabbit hides if you snare rabbits for food. We need a consumable item that we can use these hides on.

[Muk_Pile]

+1 on all of above suggestions

Make wolf visits a lot more frequent where dead rabbits have been left and "disappeared". Surely a wolf would come back to places where it found something yummy.

I'd like it if they added a new predator to the mix. Something that doesn't directly threatens you but can make your life miserable just the same.

I'm talking about foxes and lynx, both of which prey exclusively upon small mammals (e.g. rabbits), so they would be perfect for cleaning up your left-over rabbit carcasses. However, they would also be very good at cleaning up the carcasses you haven't had the chance to harvest at all yet, denying you a precious calorie resource and making you life much more challenging. Of course, they themselves might get stuck in a snare along with the rabbits, allowing you to catch them red-handed.

They'd make oh so comfortable hats. :twisted:

[druffzilla]

Good suggestions Hotzn, especially 2-5.

Sadly, I also often leave little scraps if they are just 0.1kg, cooking time on any piece smaller then 0.5kg should be 10min only.

Also the ability to carry rabbits in a whole piece would make sense, then harvest them in a safer environment.

[Gaboris]

+1 on all the suggested "tweaks" plus additions.

[danicusrex]

Yep, I like a good chunk of all this. +1.

[Eachna]

I'd like it if they added a new predator to the mix. Something that doesn't directly threatens you but can make your life miserable just the same.

If we're going to get a new predator animal, I vote for a wolverine. If we're to get a new prey animal, maybe a beaver?

C'mon, who doesn't want to see geomagnetically-enraged wolverines hunting deer and then turning on humans?

Then we could get a wolverine hat. The fur is supposed to shed ice.

[CubertFarnsworth]

I'd like it if they added a new predator to the mix. Something that doesn't directly threatens you but can make your life miserable just the same.

If we're going to get a new predator animal, I vote for a wolverine. If we're to get a new prey animal, maybe a beaver?

C'mon, who doesn't want to see geomagnetically-enraged wolverines hunting deer and then turning on humans?

Then we could get a wolverine hat. The fur is supposed to shed ice.

YES!! We need to be able to craft hats and a scarf as well.

[Jebcool]

+1

And the ability to pick up the dead rabbits, maybe bri NH them inside to harvest. Why not? It wouldn't weigh anymore than like 5 lbs anyway

[CubertFarnsworth]

+1

And the ability to pick up the dead rabbits, maybe bri NH them inside to harvest. Why not? It wouldn't weigh anymore than like 5 lbs anyway

With on that one!

As for wolves and deer. Speaking as a hunter. The wolf yes, you should be able to pick that up. The deer that is a stretch. The bear, hell no.

Maybe a drag option to place the carcass somewhere else to process. Why would I process it out in the cold, exposed to the elements when there is a cave 100 ft away from me?

[piddy3825]

I'd like it if they added a new predator to the mix. Something that doesn't directly threatens you but can make your life miserable just the same.

I'm talking about foxes and lynx, both of which prey exclusively upon small mammals (e.g. rabbits)... Of course, they themselves might get stuck in a snare along with the rabbits, allowing you to catch them red-handed.

They'd make oh so comfortable hats. :twisted:

+1 on foxes and or lynx

+1 on comfortable hats to craft out of fox or lynx fur, not to mention all those excess rabbit pelts

[Foxen]

You would kill my family...for a HAT??? Seriously!?!??

[TheRat]

I'd like more meat from the animals. 1 lb from a rabit sounds resonable depending on rabit size and experience of the slughterer. But 5 lb from a wolf? And 8 from a deer? Thats way of...

[Muk_Pile]

I'd like more meat from the animals. 1 lb from a rabit sounds resonable depending on rabit size and experience of the slughterer. But 5 lb from a wolf? And 8 from a deer? Thats way of...

Not really. I've done some research and calculations, so here are my results:

1. Let's assume that the average amount of skeletal muscle that any given animal possesses is about the same as a human, which averages out at 40% body weight
   
2. Let's also assume that out of all that skeletal muscles, only about half of is accessible enough to be harvested (however, please note that the wolves are slightly on the light side; I'm going to attribute this to malnutrition, which would explain why they impulsively chase down and devour anything in sight)
   
3. After doing some quick calculations, you can easily see that the amount of meat you harvest from a freshly killed corpse is about 20% of the creatures total body weight (excluding rabbits, for some odd reason; I think it has more to do with game balance than realism)
   
   • Rabbit: 5.5 lbs (Body Weight) * 0.4 = 2.2 lbs (Harvestable Meat), 2.5 kgs * 0.4 = 1 kg
     
   • Wolves: 44 lbs * 0.2 = 8.8 lbs, 20 kgs * 0.2 = 4 kgs
     
   • Deer: 88 lbs * 0.2 = 17.6 lbs, 40 kgs * 0.2 = 8 kgs
     
   • Bear: 220 lbs * 0.2 = 44 lbs, 100 kgs * 0.2 = 20 kgs

**EDIT***

I'm altering my weight calculations for the wolves with the following changes:

1. Wolves weigh twice as much as I had previously written down, so that brings their body weights up to 88 lbs. This is still on the light side for the average wolf, but it's the middle of winter, food is scarce, and they aren't hunting packs due to the geomagnetic anomilies are messing with their behaviours; so they aren't eating quiet as much as they normally would be.
   
2. Instead of harvesting 20% the body weight of a dead wolf carcass, my calcultions will only factor in 10% to account for doubling their body weight. This could be explained with the speculation that with the other animals (rabbits, deer, and bears) the amount of meat you harvest is loaded with calorie-packed fatty tissue, while the wolves are starving and don't have any fat on their bones.
   
3. In in the end, the variables have changed, but the result remains the same and the solution is sound:
   88 lbs * 0.1 = 8.8 lbs, 40 kgs * 0.1 = 4 kgs

[Lovehandel]

◦Wolves: 44 lbs * 0.2 = 8.8 lbs, 20 kgs * 0.2 = 4 kgs

◦Deer: 88 lbs * 0.2 = 17.6 lbs, 40 kgs * 0.2 = 8 kgs

◦Bear: 220 lbs * 0.2 = 44 lbs, 100 kgs * 0.2 = 20 kgs

These weights seem exceptionally low. At 44 lbs it would not be a wolf it would be a beagle.

[danicusrex]

Yeah, the average weight of a gray wolf is about 110 lbs.

[Muk_Pile]

At 44 lbs it would not be a wolf it would be a beagle.

Yeah, the average weight of a gray wolf is about 110 lbs.

Fair enough.

I'll add an edit to my previous post and change the weight of a wolf to 88 lbs, since I still think they are slightly underweight due to starvation, which accounts for their aggressive, desperate behavior and hunting strategy (i.e. chase down and eat anything that moves).

Thanks!

[random calliope]

I'll add to the rabbit wishes post by wishing that skinned rabbits didn't look like furry rabbits (same with wolves and deer). I stay around Jackrabbit Island, collect a bunch of skins, take a huge load with me to the gas station and leave them there, while leaving about 20 on the island for later. I visit the island when I need to restock. My refrigerator always overflows with wolf meat from defending myself early in my visit, and "clothing repair deer meat", so I don't harvest rabbit meat at all. Since the corpses stack up (and as OP mentioned also slide down) it's hard to tell which ones I've skinned and which ones I haven't.

[Eachna]

At 44 lbs it would not be a wolf it would be a beagle.

Yeah, the average weight of a gray wolf is about 110 lbs.

Fair enough.

I'll add an edit to my previous post and change the weight of a wolf to 88 lbs, since I still think they are slightly underweight due to starvation, which accounts for their aggressive, desperate behavior and hunting strategy (i.e. chase down and eat anything that moves).

Thanks!

The wolves can't possibly be starving. Food is prancing around on the hoof on all the maps. Deer is their preferred food and it's readily available. If they weren't getting enough deer meat they'd turn to rabbits, and squirrels and other rodents (mice/rats). They would probably also go for some low-nesting birds, maybe even some weasels.

Checking random online sources (which may or may not be accurate), wolves eat beavers and fish. Humans would be pretty low on the "to eat" scale.

The wolves are attacking due to geomagnetically-induced rage.

Let's assume that the average amount of skeletal muscle that any given animal possesses is about the same as a human, which averages out at 40% body weight

That's one of your problems right there. There's more than edible in a body than skeletal muscle. On a lean winter animal, the best sources of fat aren't skeletal muscle (marrow, brain, and organ meat). Mr. Conveniently-ignorant Bush Pilot would probably know enough to grab the kidneys and liver.

Let's also assume that out of all that skeletal muscles, only about half of is accessible enough to be harvested (however, please note that the wolves are slightly on the light side; I'm going to attribute this to malnutrition, which would explain why they impulsively chase down and devour anything in sight).

Why is only half of the skeletal muscle "accessible"? Where is the other half? Just because the harvesting animation doesn't show you flipping a corpse over doesn't meant that you'd only strip the top side.

While Mr. Bush Pilot doesn't know how to strip every bit of edible meat off a corpse, he probably wouldn't leave _half_ the muscle and all of the rest of the edible corpse behind.

This is the problem with a game that seeks to be realistic only when it makes play difficult for players. I don't mean that as an insult to the devs. It's just what they're doing. They're going for extreme accuracy (where they can) with things like caloric count and temperature manipulation, and very loose rules when it comes to character accomplishment or how fast your items degrade. Of course, everyone has their own pet peeves which just exacerbates the problem.

As an (maybe) interesting note, I think it shows there's a demand for more strictly realistic games that use consistent accelerated time.

Anyway...my requests.

1) Jerky

2) Wolverines

3) Beavers

Putting it back on the rabbit topic...more things to craft with rabbit pelts.

[Muk_Pile]

The wolves can't possibly be starving. Food is prancing around on the hoof on all the maps.

The wolves are attacking due to geomagnetically-induced rage.

True, winter is actually one of the best times of the year for wolves to keep their bellies full. Deep snow slows down their prey, avalanches and thin ice kill their victims for them, and their prey's metabolism is so low that they can't flash-burn the calories they need to run away or put up a fight.

However, the wolves in game have one major difference from their real world counter-parts: none of them hunt in packs (if you need a good example, start up a game and chase a deer in between two wolves; they both might chase after it, but only one of them will kill and eat it, while the other will turn and walk away, hungry).

Solitary hunting is never as productive as group hunting when it comes to wolves. This, in turn, leaves those solitary wolves slightly more hungry, frustrated, and desperate.

And a desperate animal is something you should never find yourself within biting distance.

Checking random online sources (which may or may not be accurate), wolves eat beavers and fish. Humans would be pretty low on the "to eat" scale.

I wouldn't doubt it; however, I would doubt they'd find a way of catching and eating them during the winter when there is a thick layer of ice covering the ponds and lakes in which fish and beaver inhabit.

That's one of your problems right there. There's more than edible in a body than skeletal muscle. On a lean winter animal, the best sources of fat aren't skeletal muscle (marrow, brain, and organ meat). Mr. Conveniently-ignorant Bush Pilot would probably know enough to grab the kidneys and liver.

Why is only half of the skeletal muscle "accessible"? Where is the other half?

While Mr. Bush Pilot doesn't know how to strip every bit of edible meat off a corpse, he probably wouldn't leave _half_ the muscle and all of the rest of the edible corpse behind.

All these calculations are just a theory I came up to try and reverse-engineer the logic the developers might have used when building these creatures. It may not be perfect (heck, I could be down right wrong), but it's the best system I can come up with.

As for your requests, here are my opinions:

+1 for Jerky (even though cooked meat in game can remain edible for about a month or so, if I'm not mistaken, which is about half the minimum shelf-life for homemade jerky)

+1 for Wolverines (2x smaller than wolves, but with 2x the attitude! :twisted: )

-1 for Beavers (they don't have any reason to go outside and expose themselves during the winter: the lodge is as solid as concrete, it stays warm inside regardless of the outside temperatures, and, most importantly, they store their food in stashes at bottom of their ponds, so they don't have to scavenge during the winter)

+1 for more thing to craft with rabbit pelts

Oh, and yes, let's get back on topic and talk about rabbits!

[Eachna]

All these calculations are just a theory I came up to try and reverse-engineer the logic the developers might have used when building these creatures. It may not be perfect (heck, I could be down right wrong), but it's the best system I can come up with.

I'm sorry I snarked at your process in my response. Yeah...what you wrote makes sense as far as reverse engineering things and it was cool that you shared it with us (whether it's "right" as to what the devs did or just coincidence). Thanks for posting it.

I meant to be snarky at the idea that it would be all the meat the characters can recover in a theoretical sense. Even someone whose not a butcher "ought" to be able to do better than we're presently doing. But it's up to the devs to tune these things to keep the game as a whole balanced, and I quite like what they've done so far. I'm really looking forward to Story Mode.

[Muk_Pile]

Well, I know I said in my last post that we should get back on topic and only talk about rabbits, but I've come across some information that has changed my viewpoint on beaver trapping.

I had stated before that it would be impractically difficult to trap a beaver in the dead of winter. However, after recently watching an episode of Yukon Men on the Discovery Channel, I saw that it was indeed possible for trappers to catch beavers with just a wire snare suspended in a hole in the ice (not quite as productive as ice fishing but still a vital and practical source of calories).

+1 to trapping beavers (however, should require a specialized snare and should not be an especially productive strategy)