INFECTION IS CHEAP DEATH, COME ON TLD

[KD7BCH]

Infection...

This is cheap and this is apparently unavoidable after numerous wolf attacks. On Voyager and Stalker you will be attacks so the whole infection mechanic just another unsustainable hole in the sandbox. Please tell me where I am wrong on this one?

I want the game to be hard, challenging. but not cheap. Nothing makes me want to not play more than going 60 days and dying because of CHEAP!

[Bill Tarling]

Simply cut down on the number of times you're attacked by wolves. Managed properly, attacks happen infrequently. Avoidance and decoys also help.

If you are still working out how to lower the attack rate, then make sure you stock up on old man's beard as you travel through the maps - there's quite a hefty supply available.

[IIllytch321]

All about dat old man's beard + bandage for the wolf bites, tho. Srs. Stuff is wunderbar.

[elloco999]

I haven't had this problem myself but if you play long enough, you're going to run out of antibiotics and old man's beard at some point no matter how much you try to avoid the wolves. If infection is a sure death, this does impose a limit to how long it's possible to survive. So it might not be a bad idea that infection is changed to something very bad but survivable without medication, just like food poisoning?

[Le_Survivant]

Antiseptic and Old beard men lichen in the first place, just after being bite, and if you don't want to use or have, the antibiotics and the Resihi (champs) tea will help you. It may take a very long time before you run out of Antispetic + antibiotics + old beard men lichen + reichi tea.

When I say a very long time, Its more about 1000 + days than 100+ days. Except if you like to hunt wolves without bow and rifle

[Majales]

With changed wolf fight came changes in afflictions. There is pretty good probability, that you will not contract infection, if you have good clothes and a knife, because the fight is as short as possible.

[TWM]

So it might not be a bad idea that infection is changed to something very bad but survivable without medication, just like food poisoning?

It already works like food poisoning, once you actually contract it. And the remedy is the same, as I found out: either antibiotocs or reishi tea + rest.

Also, if a player gets into wolf fights all the time, (s)he's doing something wrong.

[elloco999]

So it might not be a bad idea that infection is changed to something very bad but survivable without medication, just like food poisoning?

It already works like food poisoning, once you actually contract it. And the remedy is the same, as I found out: either antibiotocs or reishi tea + rest.

Also, if a player gets into wolf fights all the time, (s)he's doing something wrong.

If it's the same as food poisoning you can survive it without antibiotics or reishi tea. So infection does not equal death like the OP claims.

[Deerber]

So it might not be a bad idea that infection is changed to something very bad but survivable without medication, just like food poisoning?

It already works like food poisoning, once you actually contract it. And the remedy is the same, as I found out: either antibiotocs or reishi tea + rest.

Also, if a player gets into wolf fights all the time, (s)he's doing something wrong.

If it's the same as food poisoning you can survive it without antibiotics or reishi tea. So infection does not equal death like the OP claims.

How do you survive poisoning? Does it take a flat percentage out of your condition or is it chance based?

[elloco999]

How do you survive poisoning? Does it take a flat percentage out of your condition or is it chance based?

You survive food poisoning by sleeping until you're healed. You condition will drop to 15% and remain there (as long as you're not freezing, exhausted or dehydrated). After the food poisoning passes, you can eat and heal up again.

So you do need to have a place to rest, enough water and some food to heal afterward, but you can survive food poisoning. By the time you run out of antibiotics you should have all these things, so this shouldn't be a problem.

[TWM]

If it's the same as food poisoning you can survive it without antibiotics or reishi tea.

Really? I never tried sitting it out by just sleeping it off. I always use antibiotics or reishi (what else do I carry that stuff for?) and then 10 hours of sleep.

Anyway, with the infection, health goes down quick in my (one time) experience, so I doubt you'd survive that without medicine.

[elloco999]

If it's the same as food poisoning you can survive it without antibiotics or reishi tea.

Really? I never tried sitting it out by just sleeping it off. I always use antibiotics or reishi (what else do I carry that stuff for?) and then 10 hours of sleep.

Anyway, with the infection, health goes down quick in my (one time) experience, so I doubt you'd survive that without medicine.

With food poisoning, your health also drops quickly until it reaches 15%. It won't drop further due to the food poisoning, other things like freezing will still lower your health though.

If I ever get an infection I will see if my health will stop dropping at some point but when I reach 10% I'm going to use antibiotics!

[Deerber]

How do you survive poisoning? Does it take a flat percentage out of your condition or is it chance based?

You survive food poisoning by sleeping until you're healed. You condition will drop to 15% and remain there (as long as you're not freezing, exhausted or dehydrated). After the food poisoning passes, you can eat and heal up again.

So you do need to have a place to rest, enough water and some food to heal afterward, but you can survive food poisoning. By the time you run out of antibiotics you should have all these things, so this shouldn't be a problem.

Okay thank you for the info

[elloco999]

You're welcome

[KD7BCH]

With Infection your condition rate decline does not stop at 15%. You go all the way to zero.

[DrMembrane]

I didn't know this about food poisoning, I had been worried it would keep going to 0, and I was beginnign to find the particularly lethal food poisioning a little weird.

[KD7BCH]

Food poisoning IRL is either an infection or intoxification or both. Bacteria grow between 40-140F and when they do they eat and poo and this byproduct is what will cause intoxification, the actual large numbers of bacteria will be the infection if they are in huge numbers.

In any event either will make you sick, but in most cases you will recover and get over it. In the game a wolf bite, bandaged and untreated will get infected and you will die from an infection because there is no mechanic to stop that except anti biotics, even though the body naturally makes anti-bodies to fight any infection, you need only to have vitamins and minerals and water and calories coming in and sleep for the body to recover.

It will knock you on your ass but so will food poisoning.

[elloco999]

That's pretty much why I suggested infection should work like food poisoning in TLD, you condition drops to 15% and you will remain infected for some time. After the infection passes you then need to heal up. That way the lack of antibiotics (or reishi tea) will not mean the end if you get infected, it just means you're out of the running for a while. And if you don't manage it well, you might die anyway (getting freezing/ exhausted/ starving/ dehydrated while at 15% should be avoided at all cost).

[KD7BCH]

Agree and this is what I'm saying TLD should be. Or give us another way. I am all about the challenge and zero about the cheap.

[toebar]

I like the idea that infection should not be a guaranteed death sentence if you don't have antibiotics, but I also don't think that you should be able to rely on it stopping at 15% condition.. that would seem a tad artificial.

[Bill Tarling]

I like the idea that infection should not be a guaranteed death sentence if you don't have antibiotics, but I also don't think that you should be able to rely on it stopping at 15% condition.. that would seem a tad artificial.

[glow=orange]+1[/glow]

I agree... I think there should always be the danger that it will continue dropping, or leading to death (just so players can't get complacent expecting it to stop).

Likewise with food poisoning...

I think if both infection had random condition stopping point (eg. 0% death, up to 15% stopping point) then players would need to be more cautious, and it would intensify the ailments with players wondering whether to gamble on using supplies or risk ailment getting closer to death.

As well, it should naturally also be relative to the starting health... If player was starving or was already getting lower for their condition, the chance of the infection or food poisoning should be limited to the lower percentages. That way players get a buff or better chance of survival by staying healthy, and they put themself in more danger by letting their condition get low.

[octavian]

I don't get it.

If infection and food poisoning had a random stopping point, say 0 to 15 %, how would the player wonder whether to gamble on using supplies or not? If it's random there is no way to to know, it's a russian roulette mechanic.

If you do have the supplies, you use them, right? Why would you not use them if there is no way to know if it will kill you or not? Just because you might save a couple of pills? But then again you might die. It makes no sense not to use supplies if you have them.

And if you don't have the supplies then you're just waiting to find out if you die or not, whatever the RNG decides, based on nothing at all except pseudo-random chance, and you can't do anything about it. So, it still will be a death sentence in the long run. Correct?

If it's relative to starting health, then you're punishing the player for taking risks and playing aggressively. So basically then the game is encouraging eating kilos of meat every day and staying warm in your cabin because you're already set for the next 500 days. So in a sense survival becomes about thriving. If the player thrives, you reward the player. If the player does not thrive, you punish the player.

You're also punishing the player for other game mechanics. If you get attacked by a wolf, and from 100% condition you drop to 38%, even if you click like a robot, because RNG, and you eat a moldy candy bar because that's all you have and you do it not to starve and lose even more condition, and you get food poisoning, you're done for. More so than if you got food poisoning at 100%, correct? Just because the wolf took away 62% condition when under the exact same circumstances it could have taken 0% condition away.

I don't get it.

[Bill Tarling]

I don't get it.

If infection and food poisoning had a random stopping point, say 0 to 15 %, how would the player wonder whether to gamble on using supplies or not? If it's random there is no way to to know, it's a russian roulette mechanic.

Quite simply - the player may try holding out to see if the condition decay stops (rather than using precious supplies right away)... Some players might wait until their condition reaches a certain point before deciding not to risk not letting it drop further. I(n other words, it's not always needed.

Under the current 15% benchmark, it's pretty easy to not even bother using any supplies since you most likely won't die (unless your condition was already very low) -- so even keeping the medicine is almost negligeable in urgency or priority right now.

If you do have the supplies, you use them, right? Why would you not use them if there is no way to know if it will kill you or not? Just because you might save a couple of pills? But then again you might die. It makes no sense not to use supplies if you have them.

That's where a players personal play style and comfort comes in...

If you're close to safety [building], you might risk waiting longer to see if the condition drop stops on its own rather than wasting precious resources.

Note: currently the medicine isn't precious because you most likely won't die even if you don't use it.

If you're not near safety, then you may take it right away (or at least sooner than if you're in a safe place) because you know you may lose some more % trying to get to safety.

Some players are comfortable or enjoy the risk under low % conditions [they will wait until the last moment before using up their medicine], while others prefer to stay as healthy as possible and don't want to risk losing any health [they are more likely to take the medicine quickly so they don't drop down too far].

It makes the player responsible as to whether or not to use up their medicinal supplies early on, or save them for later when supplies are low. It's up to them as to how low they're willing to gamble letting their condition drop.

Note: a lot of the regulars in stalker mode often recover from 1%-10% conditions, so we don't necessarily panic as much when our condition drops down to 40%, 30% or even 20%... We adjust the urgency based on where we need to go to reach a safe place to recover.

[octavian]

If you're close to safety [building], you might risk waiting longer to see if the condition drop stops on its own rather than wasting precious resources.

I just have a hard time seeing it, that's all. So basically, my condition is low and dropping. So I won't risk, for example, being outside. Where I could miss a wolf and get into a struggle. I would most likely die. Or whatever, be caught in a blizzard in the middle of nowhere. Right? So I would stay inside, presumably, or close to safety like you said. Waiting, watching the percents drop, seeing if my condition stops deteriorating. So kind of like watching a time bomb ticking away. You don't know if it's a dud or not, but you say to yourself, if it gets below 10 seconds (x%) I will use this resource to stop it. Perhaps, that's my problem. I don't find it enjoyable to do this, especially by design. Whoop, defying death, 2%, 1%, didn't stop, I guess I'll take pills, ducked death, slept 8 hours, came back from death's door and now my body is mostly fine, like I'm some alien lizard regenerating limbs and organs. :lol:

I mean, sure, if you guys like it I won't say, "no, I don't want that in the game", I can see its merits but I can also see it's flaws.

Note: a lot of the regulars in stalker mode often recover from 1%-10% conditions, so we don't necessarily panic as much when our condition drops down to 40%, 30% or even 20%... We adjust the urgency based on where we need to go to reach a safe place to recover.

I know, I'm a regular too. Well, not the ones you mention when you say "we", I feel you're referring to a group, and I'm not a part of any group, at least not the one you're referring to.

[KD7BCH]

I really do wish condition stopped only improving due to sleeping. If when all your bars were secure, in the green or yellow and you had no modifiers, you would think your condition would slowly improve to the tune of maybe 1% per hour. Incentivizing keeping the character in those areas.

This would also elminate the starvation mechanic people exploit stretching 1000-2000 calories across a week.

Sleep would not be done away with of course because you still have fatigue and you still need to saite your need for sleep.

I agree with Bill, layered conditions and issues are what should kill you. A wolf bite that you can bandage but then becomes infected because you can't do anything to prevent it from becomming infected after you have exhausted pill antibiotics and relshi tea is a death sentence.

If the only cure is "don't get bit by a wolf" and manage your "wolf encouters" well this is the same thing as don't go outside in Stalker cuz FFS you can't avoid it forever. You simply can't.