The Deep Forest update - Steps taken backwards

[Magnuzn]

I think mostly the changes are good, but I want to talk about a few things that I haven't seen on the forum that really sent the game backwards a few steps.

The new UI:

They wanted a more simplistic UI, yet they've added more than they took away. Stuff like the info when you use torches/flares, or the new shelter from wind icon. The only thing they removed was the crosshair which was already not in the way, very non-intrusive, minimalistic and most importantly useful!

The inventory info.:

The weight and condition of an item used to be on either side of the item, making them spaced and easy to see. The new system has them placed very close over/under each other making it very cluttered and hard to see at a glance. They've really made the system harder to use and for no real benefit, there was no need to change it.

The shortcuts:

First of all they removed the shortcut "M" for matches, rendering them almost useless. It used to be a quick way to use spare matches to light up for a short time so you didn't have to spend time lighting the lantern. To make matters worse you can't even bring up the lantern quickly anymore as you have to go through the flare first (if you have it) making it even harder and more tedious, especially if you're in the dark and can't see. Yet again they've taken a system that worked fine and needed no change, then changed it with no benefit into a more complex and difficult system resulting in a worse experience.

Conclusion - if it ain't broke, don't fix it:

It seems in this update they've done a lot of things they didn't need to. Simply put: if it ain't broke, don't fix it! It's like they changed stuff just to change them, as they offer no benefit or better experience. Feels too much like they've take 1 step forward and 2 steps back this patch, which is very sad 'cause the rest of the content is really good!

If you have any feedback to my impression of the patch or some more "steps backwards" please post them!

[DrMembrane]

I too am annoyed by the removal of the match and the placement of the lantern and flares on the same button, it's needlessly clunkly.

Though I wouldn't say matches are useless, you need them to light fires if you don't get a fire starter.

[Golden]

The matches appear on the same hotkey as flares/lanterns/torches, though they're probably the last thing to come up.

That being said, I very much agree wanting to keep matches on M. Having to hit 1 three or four times before even getting to light the damn thing kind of makes it not worth the effort.

[McGuffin]

it's like... where the damn are my matches? pretty sure they were there... no there, ah found them.

kind of realistic actually

[Golden]

While the M hotkey is more like they always have their matches in a breast pocket and as soon as they pull one out, it lights up for maximum convenience.

[Aelaera]

I would think in a survival situation you would keep your matches in a breast pocket or at least close at hand since they are a rather useful tool. That being said, losing the ability to just click m to pop out a match for a quick search of an area is really annoying.

[bethany]

While the M hotkey is more like they always have their matches in a breast pocket and as soon as they pull one out, it lights up for maximum convenience.

Always so interesting to read about how you guys picture these things in your imaginations.

We definitely don't consider this a step backwards, and some of the new features will tie into future updates, but we're always open to hearing feedback, and will be evaluating all of it over the next couple of weeks. Thanks for sharing yours.

[Magnuzn]

We definitely don't consider this a step backwards

I'm quite sure most developers and such will never admit to any faults or bad stuff, but do you honestly mean that all that I mentioned are steps forward? Having the M key for matches made it useful to stock up on them and light up quick to see the bed or the loot on the ground. Since the game doesn't have proper open houses or really any light at all in buildings I found it to be almost essential to the game. Now it's actually harder and takes longer to find and ignite the matches than a lamp. The fact that you can't adjust the contrast and brightness in the game made matches even more useful.

While I understand you want things to be realistic in the game I don't think making the game "clunky" is the way to go. It needs to be responsive enough so that it's not a pain to actually play the game. Even small stuff like not being able to holster a weapon or equipment with the same key (1, 2, 3) is a big pain. While the update brought many cool new things it feels much worse to play when it comes to controlling your character.

That being said I absolutely love this game! I'm currently 50 days into the hardest difficulty and loving it!

[coryduran]

I dunno, I get the complaints from op, but in my own experiences I very rarely used m to pull up matches. To me they're just too valuable of a resource to waste using for light regularly, especially once I obtain a Lantern (110 days in current run, not close to running out of fuel). While I can understand the complaints op made about the ui changes, I like them personally, I think the amount of info added is super useful (wind shield icon for example keeps me from having to pull up survival screen to make sure I'm blocked from wind.)

I did struggle right off the bat with some of the new hot keys, but upon playing with it, it feels pretty smooth and easy now.

I also strongly disagree with the "ain't broke don't fix it" thing. To me it seems like the developers are striving to deliver their vision and the best experience possible. You'll never have the whole player base agree on everything, but I'm glad hinterland keeps trying to make changes and respond to feedback.

[Magnuzn]

they're just too valuable of a resource to waste

I see it the other way. I have 150+ matches atm and a firestarter, and I'm never going to use them all. Now they just rot away in a drawer in my base. They used to be so useful when you're in the dark looking for your bed for example. Instead of waiting the 2-3 seconds it takes to light the lantern, you could just use a single match to find your way. It could all be fixed by having some vision in the dark ofc, but not sure if that's planned.

the complaints op made about the ui changes, I like them personally

It's not so much that I don't like them, just that I don't understand them. They say in the patchnotes they want a more minimalistic UI, yet they practically add more than they had before. Also they remove the crosshair which was a very useful tool and already extremely minimalistic.

I did struggle right off the bat with some of the new hot keys, but upon playing with it, it feels pretty smooth and easy now.

You can ofc get used to them, but there is no denying they're harder and more impractical now than before. It was already working fine and had "features", now they removed the benefits and jammed them all into each other and removed features like pressing 1,2,3 again to holster the tool/weapon.

I also strongly disagree with the "ain't broke don't fix it" thing

I understand and agree with what you're saying, we should always try to improve and innovate. My point was more that they shouldn't try to change something that is already working very well if they don't have anything better to replace it with. It's like buying a Ferrari then re-painting it with house-paint, it's worse and it makes no sense. They literally made the game worse and harder with some of these changes that in the first place didn't need to be changed. That's why I'm a bit upset and made this post.

[bethany]

Actually, I'm fairly certain we would admit if something we did was a total misstep, and I know we've made quick adjustments to some previous changes after hearing from the community. I just don't feel that way in this case. It is true some of the new features and values may need tweaking, but that's why feedback is important, and why we welcome it and respond to it.

I really do believe players will adjust to most of the new mechanics over time. It's always jarring to experience something different when you're used to it being a certain way for so long, but that's why we're in Early Access -- So we can flesh out the game and get feedback from our community. I've taken a lot of notes over the past few days, and it'll be interesting to see how things progress from here.

[Magnuzn]

...feedback is important, and why we welcome it and respond to it.

That's good to hear! Hopefully you understood that I was trying to give constructive criticism even though it may have come of as a negative complaint.

It's always jarring to experience something different when you're used to it being a certain way for so long

That's very true, and it happens for every game. But all (or at least most of it) I mentioned weren't really "This is new and stupid, I hate it", but as I explained some step backwards that make stuff harder. Sure we'll get used to it, but that doesn't justify a poor decision. Looking at the answers in this thread it seems as I'm not alone with feeling the game is clunkier now, so I hope you will all look into it.

Btw, a bit off topic but I found a weird bug today! I'll link it here so you can check it out: https://www.reddit.com/r/thelongdark/co ... mmunition/

[McGuffin]

About the new cycling shorcuts, maybe they will fit with more tools/objects in the future, so they can be OK. They is one thing that can be improved however:

the shortcut remember what was the last used tool.

If i used the lantern (or kept it in my hand a long time), then popup the lantern at first etc...

[nicko]

I love all aspects of latest update v256. would love a shortcut key L for lantern.

[desrocchi]

I literally just updated and found the changes to the hotkeys and I reeeeeally dislike them.

These are clearly commands made to be used with the xbox controller, and they're ok there, but on a PC having our buttons limited is a hard struggle.

I always thought we had too few of them and now they've been even reduced...

[harobed1156]

These are clearly commands made to be used with the xbox controller, ...

Ahhh, that explains it.

and they're ok there, but on a PC having our buttons limited is a hard struggle.

I always though we had too few of them and now they've been even reduced...

I've been using a programmable mouse with 12 side buttons purchased just for TDL, fewer key bindings is a step backward.