What should tomorrow’s run be?

[Leeanda]

1 minute ago, ManicManiac said:

Honestly, I'm not sure... I just assumed High fear would equal greater fear response (or likelihood of fleeing)

@Leeanda, I think you've had more experience with those particular settings than I've had... is it a direct correlation or an inverse correlation?

 

Low fear honestly doesn't make much difference to high,in my experience ,in terms of attacking anyway.. but it does make them less likely to run off or back away from their kill.  . 

Some of the other settings are like that too..   not much noticeable difference,if any..  

Twolves are a bit different than ordinary wolves ,they still run away but not as far and tend to run around as they would when not passive..  and the only place I've seen them hunting is upper bleak and near the bricklayers in blackrock.

[SuperStriker16]

 

8 minutes ago, Leeanda said:

Twolves are a bit different than ordinary wolves ,they still run away but not as far and tend to run around as they would when not passive..  and the only place I've seen them hunting is upper bleak and near the bricklayers in blackrock.

So high wolf fear makes Timberwolves morale drain faster?

[Leeanda]

Just now, SuperStriker16 said:

 

So high wolf fear makes Timberwolves morale drain faster?

If they're in passive there is no metre ,  so as far as I know they'll only attack if you try to take their kill,same as ordinary wolves..

I never touch the morale  settings for twolves because there's no need to really.. I have them on low because the cannery during an aurora is very annoying when there's lots of twolves glitchy barking all night😄. Drives me nuts!

[ManicManiac]

More fantastic science @Leeanda, thank you. 

[UpUpAway95]

40 minutes ago, SuperStriker16 said:

I will also change wolf fear, is high wolf fear means the wolf flees easier, or harder? I want them to attack, but flee easily without fully stopping wolves, bears, and moose from attacking. Thank you for the predator info Leeanda.

As far as I can tell, the effect of lower or raising wolf fear is not all that noticeable.  They just don't have an "intermediate" behaviour like the wolf in the video (i.e. where it is yielding... showing a desire to simply avoid the player, but not panicking... which is what I expected from it when I first started playing.  In modes other than passive, wolves will usually go into a stalking behaviour if they detect the player at enough distance where they don't immediately go into attack mode.  Detection range and meat scent settings seem to have a greater impact on this than wolf fear.

Edited April 21, 2023 by UpUpAway95

[SuperStriker16]

I just want to make it so if a wolf is charging me so I shoot and miss it, the gunshot has a good chance to scare the wolf off.

[UpUpAway95]

Just now, SuperStriker16 said:

I just want to make it so if a wolf is charging me so I shoot and miss it, the gunshot has a good chance to scare the wolf off.

Wolf fear may indeed have an impact on how easily a wolf will go into panic mode when, say, a rock is tossed at it.  Hip fires from the revolver have a great chance of scaring a wolf off, but aimed missed shots are more likely to provoke an attack by a wolf.  Of course, you can't hip fire either the rifle or the bow.  Bears and moose are most likely to attack regardless of settings (i.e. including passive) if they can locate you and track to you when you miss a shot.  The best way to take pot shots at animals is from locations where they have difficulty tracking to you.  If an animal, in any setting, cannot possibly reach you, they will run off for a short period.

[Leeanda]

6 minutes ago, SuperStriker16 said:

I just want to make it so if a wolf is charging me so I shoot and miss it, the gunshot has a good chance to scare the wolf off.

They won't charge on passive .. you have to get right behind them while they're eating to make them attack ,and if they do you won't have time to shoot.  

Voyager wolf settings might fit that bill but that's not passive.    

If you fire a gun without aiming it will mostly scare them off anyway.. if you aim they'll come at you,but again that's not in passive.

Edited April 21, 2023 by Leeanda

[UpUpAway95]

4 minutes ago, Leeanda said:

They won't charge on passive .. you have to get right behind them while they're eating to make them attack ,and if they do you won't have time to shoot.  

Voyager wolf settings might fit that bill but that's not passive.    

If you fire a gun without aiming it will mostly scare them off anyway.. if you aim they'll come at you,but again that's not in passive.

The first sentence is where @Leeanda's experience and mine in passive mode varies a bit.  I have been attacked by passive wolves by merely aiming a gun at them while eating and still a distance away.  However, I did not record what my wolf fear, detection range and meat scent settings were on when those events occurred.  I have also been attacked by wolves in passive by simply getting too close to them when stressed (one wolf that attacked me in that way was, at the time, very nearly dead from a wounding shot I had given it quite some time before; that is, I had been following its blood trail for awhile when is disappeared behind a rock and when I came up to the rock, it attacked from behind it meaning it had probably momentarily paused in its limping like they sometimes do so that I caught up to it).  Of course, HL is continually making adjustments to wolf behavior and that attack was a few years ago. 

[Leeanda]

2 minutes ago, UpUpAway95 said:

The first sentence is where @Leeanda's experience and mine in passive mode varies a bit.  I have been attacked by passive wolves by merely aiming a gun at them while eating and still a distance away.  However, I did not record what my wolf fear, detection range and meat scent settings were on when those events occurred.  I have also been attacked by wolves in passive by simply getting too close to them when stressed (one wolf that attacked me in that way was, at the time, very nearly dead from a wounding shot I had given it quite some time before; that is, I had been following its blood trail for awhile when is disappeared behind a rock and when I came up to the rock, it attacked from behind it meaning it had probably momentarily paused in its limping like they sometimes do so that I caught up to it).  Of course, HL is continually making adjustments to wolf behavior and that attack was a few years ago. 

Thank you for saying that...  I did forget that I was attacked..,once .. by a dying wolf...our friend in the cannery actually..  but it was quite a while after I took a shot  . I usually just ignore them and loot the place while it's dying but on this one occasion it attacked me ,very briefly with no noticeable damage ,while I was using the milling machine.   It was an aurora wolf though but aside from that no other occasion .  

I never touch the smell detection settings , I can't see the point on pilgrim. 

[conanjaguar]

To join in the discussion of how the wolves should act:

“Realistic” wolf behavior is going to be pretty difficult to replicate… so might I suggest…

• Turning wolf spawn rates to low and Timberwolf spawn rates up to the maximum. This makes some sense, since real wolves usually travel in packs.
• Increasing smell and sight distance to high, because why not ? Also turn the spawn distance to close.
• Wolf fear… might as well turn it up to high, because as @UpUpAway95 said, it doesn’t really have that much of an impact.
• Wolf struggle damage should be turned up… because even the most muscular gym rat is unlikely to get one off without taking severe damage.

[Leeanda]

If he puts wolf spawn rates to low he'll be lucky to find any in my experience..   I've got them on very high and I still go hours without seeing one.. 

Twolves are only in limited places too.   

But yes. In real life if you got attacked you'd be lucky to live. 

[conanjaguar]

3 minutes ago, Leeanda said:

If he puts wolf spawn rates to low he'll be lucky to find any in my experience..   I've got them on very high and I still go hours without seeing one.. 

Twolves are only in limited places too.   

But yes. In real life if you got attacked you'd be lucky to live. 

Hmmm… A bug, maybe? On very high, they should be everywhere… especially inMilton .

There’s a mod out there that will put them all over the map, but I think he’s on Xbox…

[SuperStriker16]

Ill go with what conanjaguar said and do regular wolves on low and timberwolves on very high. Can i do timberwolves as an independent setting or are they ajusted with the regular wolf setting? I can't remember. yes I'm on xbox and therefore do not have access to mods.

[UpUpAway95]

11 minutes ago, conanjaguar said:

To join in the discussion of how the wolves should act:

“Realistic” wolf behavior is going to be pretty difficult to replicate… so might I suggest…

• Turning wolf spawn rates to low and Timberwolf spawn rates up to the maximum. This makes some sense, since real wolves usually travel in packs.
• Increasing smell and sight distance to high, because why not ? Also turn the spawn distance to close.
• Wolf fear… might as well turn it up to high, because as @UpUpAway95 said, it doesn’t really have that much of an impact.
• Wolf struggle damage should be turned up… because even the most muscular gym rat is unlikely to get one off without taking severe damage.

 

2 minutes ago, conanjaguar said:

Hmmm… A bug, maybe? On very high, they should be everywhere… especially inMilton .

There’s a mod out there that will put them all over the map, but I think he’s on Xbox…

Not a bug.  T-Wolves were only introduced in Bleak Inlet and in Blackrock (i.e. where the ammo forges are located).  In Wintermute, they also exist in Pleasant Valley, but they aren't found there in Survival mode.  No doubt, someone has made a mode that circumvents that.

@SuperStriker16T-Wolves are on a separate setting both for spawn rates and for morale (since, for them, it is a pack behaviour mechanic).  You will still only find them in Bleak Inlet and in Blackrock.

 

[ManicManiac]

I'm glad I brought this up.  The amount of good discussion right here is great.  

[Leeanda]

9 minutes ago, conanjaguar said:

Hmmm… A bug, maybe? On very high, they should be everywhere… especially inMilton .

There’s a mod out there that will put them all over the map, but I think he’s on Xbox…

It's always been like that.. you get occasional places where there's 4_5  together and you don't see them again for ages.   There's usually one or two in some places more often but you can't count on them either. 

[Leeanda]

Twolves  are actually around more in low settings than ordinary wolves on the highest settings.. the cannery always has at least 6 when I go.. not for long though.    

[UpUpAway95]

38 minutes ago, Leeanda said:

Twolves  are actually around more in low settings than ordinary wolves on the highest settings.. the cannery always has at least 6 when I go.. not for long though.    

I believe how the "spawn chance" settings work are to determine how many of the possible spawn points within the region are active and how many are not active.  I don't think it controls the number of animals that spawn in a pack or herd.  I think that is more just random chance.  One cannery spawn point for T-Wolves is always active (unless spawn chance is none) and I believe there are 3 possible spawn points close by (although this still needs some more observation).  The wiki says they can spawn in packs from 2-5 members, but the only place I've seen a 2-individual pack is by Pensive Lookout; otherwise 4 or 5 seems to be a good average on all settings.  With 6, I would guess you're seeing 2 three-individual packs.   For regular wolves, they don't seem to spawn in numbers greater than 3 for any individual spawn point.  Of course, all of this may have changed with the update.

Edited April 21, 2023 by UpUpAway95

[Leeanda]

23 minutes ago, UpUpAway95 said:

I believe how the "spawn chance" settings work are to determine how many of the possible spawn points within the region are active and how many are not active.  I don't think it controls the number of animals that spawn in a pack or herd.  I think that is more just random chance.  One cannery spawn point for T-Wolves is always active (unless spawn chance is none) and I believe there are 3 possible spawn points close by (although this still needs some more observation).  The wiki says they can spawn in packs from 2-5 members, but the only place I've seen a 2-individual pack is by Pensive Lookout; otherwise 4 or 5 seems to be a good average on all settings.  With 6, I would guess you're seeing 2 three-individual packs.   For regular wolves, they don't seem to spawn in numbers greater than 3 for any individual spawn point.  Of course, all of this may have changed with the update.

The times I see 4_5 together , they are regular wolves ,usually between the carriages in mystery lake , at the maintenance shed  or the lake in broken  and near the waterfall cave in ash..   I can also get none in all those places.   

Twolves in blackrock seem more spread out and consistent than bleak...

Edited April 21, 2023 by Leeanda

[UpUpAway95]

2 minutes ago, Leeanda said:

The times I see 4_5 together , they are regular wolves ,usually between the carriages in mystery lake , at the maintenance shed  or the lake in broken  and near the waterfall cave in ash..   I can also get none in all those places.   

Twolves in blackrock seem more spread out and consistent in blackrock.

At the maintenance shed, I generally see 3-6 (which I put off to being 1 spawn group if only 3 or two spawn groups if more than 3)  Out on the lake in BRR (where I have a clear view), I've never seen more than 3 spawn in at once (and, yes, I've watched them form many times).  Of course, all of this is based on personal observation, so I could wrong.   The Wiki certainly disagrees with me regarding the regular wolves:

Quote

A fixed number of wolves are present per region (living and dead), generated at wolf spawn points which they wander close to. Each spawn point can only house one wolf at a given time, though others may spawn at neighboring points.

T-Wolves (from Wiki):

Quote

They are native to Bleak Inlet and Blackrock regions (in Survival mode) and Episode 3 and Episode 4 of Story mode, roaming and attacking in packs of 2 to 5.

 

[Leeanda]

15 hours ago, UpUpAway95 said:

At the maintenance shed, I generally see 3-6 (which I put off to being 1 spawn group if only 3 or two spawn groups if more than 3)  Out on the lake in BRR (where I have a clear view), I've never seen more than 3 spawn in at once (and, yes, I've watched them form many times).  Of course, all of this is based on personal observation, so I could wrong.   The Wiki certainly disagrees with me regarding the regular wolves:

T-Wolves (from Wiki):

 

There are obviously some inconsistencies  between what we both see and wiki then..   

Outside of the cannery ,no matter which settings I put on there's only a possible sighting of two wolves together behind the washed out trailers ,on the tiny island..  And 3-4 near the island on the southwest.And I'm sure there used to be regular wolves there near the climb to secret path but I haven't seen any in several years.  No twolves either..  should there be any more ?

Edited April 22, 2023 by Leeanda

[UpUpAway95]

21 minutes ago, Leeanda said:

There are obviously some inconsistencies  between what we both see and wiki then..   

Outside of the cannery ,no matter which settings I put on there's only a possible sighting of two wolves together behind the washed out trailers ,on the tiny island..  And 3-4 near the island on the southwest.And I'm sure there used to be regular wolves there near the climb to secret path but I haven't seen any in several years.  No twolves either..  should there be any more ?

I'm thinking there are 2 packs spawning for you inside the cannery yard.  I have had runs where I've seen 5 wolves running in the yard, but I've not counted 6 as best I can remember.  Of course, I do tend to get rather panicked/frazzled whenever I have to fight my way into that yard and I don't bother to loot the dead ones, so maybe I'm just not counting them right.  I like Bleak (sort of)... but I generally stay as much as possible up at the cabin and I haven't tended to go out to the island much (honestly can't recall if they are regular wolves out there or not).  I often just do a loot of the cannery workers residences, hopefully find a rifle in the fishing hut(s) and then make a quick pass under the cannery pier for clothes (usually encountered a separate pack on the trail to the trailers)... then off to moose country and staying up at the cabin.  Hmm... I also frequently miss the secret path.  I should start another run there or in ML and head into there... but right now I'm enjoying exploring the Forsaken Airfield... getting used to having insomnia and exploring at night rather than in the daytime.  Now that I have some good clothes, it's not too bad.

[Leeanda]

2 minutes ago, UpUpAway95 said:

I'm thinking there are 2 packs spawning for you inside the cannery yard.  I have had runs where I've seen 5 wolves running in the yard, but I've not counted 6 as best I can remember.  Of course, I do tend to get rather panicked/frazzled whenever I have to fight my way into that yard and I don't bother to loot the dead ones, so maybe I'm just not counting them right.  I like Bleak (sort of)... but I generally stay as much as possible up at the cabin and I haven't tended to go out to the island much (honestly can't recall if they are regular wolves out there or not).  I often just do a loot of the cannery workers residences, hopefully find a rifle in the fishing hut(s) and then make a quick pass under the cannery pier for clothes (usually encountered a separate pack on the trail to the trailers)... then off to moose country and staying up at the cabin.  Hmm... I also frequently miss the secret path.  I should start another run there or in ML and head into there... but right now I'm enjoying exploring the Forsaken Airfield... getting used to having insomnia and exploring at night rather than in the daytime.  Now that I have some good clothes, it's not too bad.

I think a lot of people do when they go to the cannery..    the only problem I have with them is the looped yapping through the Aurora.  It's a bit better after the update but not much..   aside from that one attack from our friend indoors it's been ok..  I wish the yapping was in the setting though but I think that's just my personal preference 😁.   There's usually something good or useful up that secret path. 

I'm glad you're getting on ok in forsaken ,it's certainly big,.. and I didn't even see most of the place.  . I thought pv was big enough!🙂

[UpUpAway95]

55 minutes ago, Leeanda said:

I think a lot of people do when they go to the cannery..    the only problem I have with them is the looped yapping through the Aurora.  It's a bit better after the update but not much..   aside from that one attack from our friend indoors it's been ok..  I wish the yapping was in the setting though but I think that's just my personal preference 😁.   There's usually something good or useful up that secret path. 

I'm glad you're getting on ok in forsaken ,it's certainly big,.. and I didn't even see most of the place.  . I thought pv was big enough!🙂

Well, I'm getting on at least... enjoying it, but not sure now that I'm doing OK.  Tried playing in pain (arthritis) this morning and lost my guy to poor coordination and inattention.  Will start a new run there soon, but meanwhile I have to wait until some painkillers kick in.