TLD can be extremely difficult!

[peteloud]

I haven't played TLD for several months, since Ash Canyon came out and I updated all of my saved games.  But since the miserable, start of winter weather in Britain I have been very bored, so I returned to TLD. I normally play straight Stalker or Voyager games.  Apart from saving my games, I don't use any cheats, sorry, mods, that make the games easier.  I have never seen a loot table, nor used one. I have probably spent more hours playing TLD than 99+% of players.

 

So I returned to an old Interloper game.  I don't like interloper.  If played without cheating, i.e. using loot tables, it is no fun.  I usually have better things to do with my life than than give myself stress that might give me a heart attack.  But I was very bored.  The game I retuned to was a 49 day Interloper game that I'd not touched for a long time.  I was out in Milton Basin and in poor shape.  My condition was around 15%, I had next to no food, had a clothing warmth bonus of about 14-15°.  I had no knife, axe or bow.  I believe that none of the more powerful and useful equipment is available unless you edit your save file. So that's my background.

 

What I found was that the game was incredibly difficult and, as already known, no fun whatsoever.  I had many tries to recover my situatipn which didn't seem too bad.  But every time, many times, I slipped in to the Long Dark.  It was just as well that I saved my games.   In the end I got out to a place where it suddenly became easy.  My condition is around 55% so I am in position to try and find a knife, axe and make a bow and arrows.  From now on it's easier.

 

It might seem that I am strongly against the use of mods or loot tables to make the game easier.  Well, that is only partly true.    If such things are what people want and helps HTL sell the game, I'm OK with it.   What I am particularly against is the bullshitting where players using those cheats boast of their epic runs when it was all achieved by the use of the cheats. 

 

Back to the game.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[UpUpAway95]

As long as items spawn in fixed locations, there are going to be people either using a reference (loot table) or even just their own memory earned by repetition to get to those items before they take the unknown time and effort to find randomized loot in the game.  Is using one's knowledge from repeated runs of the game cheating?  I don't think anyone would say it would be... so using a reference really is no different IMO.  It just speeds up memorizing it first hand (avoids each player having to recreate their own "loot table" in their head or in notes, so to speak). 

Of course, the alternative is to make loot spawns completely random, but then it makes it possible that one can spawn in a zone where there isn't a single ignition source one run and then spawn near to 100 matches the next run... or spawn in a world that is completely devoid of, say, a hammer - making it impossible to forge.  Would that be better (making the game more fun) or would it be just more frustrating?

I'll leave the question unanswered myself... we'll see what happens with the new update.

Edited November 23, 2022 by UpUpAway95

[Mistral]

Oh it's this old cheating claim once again for the 100th time. Moving on.

[Leeanda]

I'm still finding loot in different areas  even after numerous runs.  Sure ,some of its memorised but that does Not make it cheating.  

You know where there's loot but you can't guarantee what specific loot it is.   

On this yet another new run I've been to hrv,Milton,mystery and briefly through PV and I still haven't found any underwear.  It is still occasionally unpredictable .  As it should be. 

And honestly you're not being fair to people . Some  really struggle with this game ,quite understandably,and looking for help is not cheating.  And it's up to the individual how they play.the only person they need to explain their actions to is themselves. 

 

[Strelok]

Mods are not cheats. They are mods. Some make it harder, some make it easier. If you use both kind of mods, they make a already good game just better.

[UpUpAway95]

2 hours ago, Leeanda said:

I'm still finding loot in different areas  even after numerous runs.  Sure ,some of its memorised but that does Not make it cheating.  

You know where there's loot but you can't guarantee what specific loot it is.   

On this yet another new run I've been to hrv,Milton,mystery and briefly through PV and I still haven't found any underwear.  It is still occasionally unpredictable .  As it should be. 

And honestly you're not being fair to people . Some  really struggle with this game ,quite understandably,and looking for help is not cheating.  And it's up to the individual how they play.the only person they need to explain their actions to is themselves. 

 

Exactly.  I don't think the old loot tables were actually a bad thing.  They served to give the game an element of predictability while maintaining a corresponding element of randomness.  We could count on being able to find the most essential items in every run starting while still being able to be surprised by random finds in unexpected locations.  I don't think by redoing them now that HL is totally abandoning the game to random chance.  It may "feel" more random... at least until some people science it enough to figure out the "system" programmed into the game (and  I anticipate there will still be a form of "loot table" mechanics in the game).  No doubt, "cheating" accusations will continue regardless no matter what players are actually doing - modding, using references, or even just "sciencing" and memorizing things based on their own experiences.  That just seems to be in the nature of "gamers" (shrug).

[peteloud]

5 hours ago, James Hickok said:

So if you want to "try and find a knife, axe..." you wont. . . .

That is where I have had it wrong.  I was expecting to find an axe and a knife, and searched and searched when I should have been forging them.

I found a few heavy hammers, which was unusual, perhaps that was a clue.  I have a hacksaw and found tons of coal. So forging would have been easy.  Thanks for that suggestion. 

At the moment I am at PV Farmhouse on day 63.  I shall return to the Dam where I think I left a heavy hammer then go to the RIKEN which is my favourite forge.

 

[peteloud]

2 hours ago, James Hickok said:

I guess you can still save this run maybe.

I had not left a heavy hammer at the ML Office as I thought, I had to go a stage further back, to Trappers. Now I have the hammer, it should be simple.  Except, at Trappers I am suffering from Cabin Fever.  I tried to avoid this by sleeping at the nearby cave but that must count as causing Cabin Fever too.  It's strange.  Some caves seem to cause Cabin Fever, some don't.  It is a bit of a problem as everywhere is so bloody cold.

 

[DaGnome91]

If I remember it correctly, caves (places with only 1 entrance and no transition) don't cause cabin fever, but grottos do. If there's a transition zone, like the one next to Trapper's, then you can get cabin fever because you're not in the open. This is as far as I understand it.

 

The strangest thing about all of this is: I never got cabin fever

 

Edited November 23, 2022 by DaGnome91
add info

[peteloud]

2 minutes ago, DaGnome91 said:

If I remember it correctly, caves (places with only 1 entrance and no transition) don't cause cabin fever, . . .

That fits in with what I have just experienced.  When at the ML Office I used the cave near the nearest lakeside cabins to avoid Cabin Fever, and that was OK.

[Leeanda]

If you have enough sticks and coal the barn opposite trappers should be fine..  as long as you're in the enclosed part .

[peteloud]

59 minutes ago, James Hickok said:

If u have scrap metal , hammer and coal ready i would suggest going to Forlom Muskeg Forge and start forging there. Its a open barn so you will not get cabin fever/your cabin fever will go away there. Lots of cattails -=> You need food for forging and crafting. I would suggest gathering at least 40 - 50 of them.

Do you have cabin fever or just affliction? How are you doing food wise?

If you have food and are not feeling comfortable traversing Forlom Muskeg you should go back to Camp Office get to Overlook Cave just outside the Office, you need to go up the hill a bit and take a right still up the hill, then a bit left. Its easy to get there. There are rabbits outside and you can cure ur fever there and go Riken if you wish but i would not recommend that foodwise without the means of hunting. You will just run out of food and get cabin fever again from sitting in the ship.

What i noticed lately is that no matter how much % of cabin fever affliction i have it goes away instantly when i enter a cave.

I  had Cabin Fever proper, not jut the warning. That surprised me.  In the past I have had warnings about the onset of Cabin Fever, this time it seemed that I developed Cabin Fever without warnings. To recover from that I went to the cave near closest laskeside cabins as they are much easier to get to than the Overlook. 

One puzzle that I haven't solved is fishing.  Earlier, from the ML Office I went out to a fishing hut three times and fished for around 4 or 5 hours each time and did not catch any fish.  I've never had it that bad previously.

I am at the Overlook now.  The main attraction there is the deer carcass that will give me food and a deer hide, and the rabbits.  Getting those is a problem due to a blizzard.

After there I shall head upstream collecting cattails then pop into the dam from which I can pop out to Winding River to another deer carcass for more meat and a hide.  After that it will be a dash up to Riken.  Originally I assumed that I would find a knife, axe and/or bow and arrow or two enroute.  Now I realise that I will not.  That is a long journey to make with poor clothing and freezing weather. There will be few cattails along that route so I expect serious food problems.  Earlier in this game I had problems with wolves in FM.  As my condition was so low I was easily killed in any wolf encounter.

One big mistake I made early in this game was to try and find a moose backpack in HRV.  I had assumed that I would find an axe so getting to the smoking fires would not be a problem.  I wasted much time getting there, searching and getting out.

If I had read a 'cheat' sheet, Ooops! I shouldn't use that word, it upsets cheaters, and known that axes and knives could not be found I would have played the game very differently.  If I had looked at loot tables I would have known where to go to find an axe and knife, and I guess, warm clothes.  It would have been as easy as Voyager.

I am finding that playing a straight Interloper game is no fun at all.  It is too difficult.  It is not rexlaxing.   I can see why people use the cheats, Ooops!, should I say helpful information from outside the game.

[Serenity]

Better just ignore this guy. It's not worth it as he doesn't want to discuss anything in good faith. Why engage with someone who constantly insults everyone else?

[Leeanda]

Just now, Serenity said:

Better just ignore this guy. It's not worth it as he doesn't want to discuss anything in good faith. Why engage with someone who constantly insults everyone else?

Agreed. His constant putdowns  are tedious.  

[peteloud]

16 minutes ago, Serenity said:

 he doesn't want to discuss anything in good faith.

Why do you say that?

[peteloud]

On 11/24/2022 at 11:13 AM, James Hickok said:

Keep me informed of ur run please. Take care.

My trip out to Riken turned out much better than expected.  Once in DP there were loads of coal and Riken is full of scrap.

However I made a couple of very silly major mistakes and a couple of minor mistakes too, on the way.  On an overnight stay I dropped my birch saplings, deer hides and guts and forgot to pick them up.  So that once I got to Riken and made axe, knife and arrowheads I could not make a bow or arrows.

I am now on my way back to try and find the gear I dropped, but it's tricky.  I cleaned out almost all of the food on the way out, so now it is difficult.  When I find the guts and birch saplings I'll then have to travel further to find a workbench. 

I have already died more than a dozen times, fortunately I cheated and saved as I went along.  That earlier carelessness will probably put me in an irrecoverable state soon.

 

[UpUpAway95]

4 hours ago, peteloud said:

I have already died more than a dozen times, fortunately I cheated and saved as I went along.  That earlier carelessness will probably put me in an irrecoverable state soon.

 

That's what kind of irritates me about your previous comments on people using the loot tables as "cheating."  IMO, using save backups to get around the permadeath feature of this game that deletes your save upon death is a far bigger "cheat" than looking up a few probable loot locations on a loot table.  I do wish you all the best, but I hope you realize you actually lost this run the moment you died on it the first time and whatever days survived your journal now reads is a lie.

ETA:  I would love it if HL put in an option into the Custom settings to allow respawn at death... along with an adjustment to the journal that changes "Days Survived" to "Consecutive Days Survived" and inserts a death counter and a notation on the day when the character died.  This would correct the "journal lie" I mentioned.  Not everyone wants to play permadeath... and they should have that option legitimately, IMO.

Edited November 26, 2022 by UpUpAway95

[Leeanda]

Hypocrisy springs to mind!

Edited November 26, 2022 by Leeanda

[Semple Fi]

I haven’t seen any mention of BR….

 I’ve found in my interloper runs that skipping on FM and moving to BR has helped me tactically much more when it comes to forging arrow heads and a knife.  
 

There’s also a wealth of cattails along the way.  
 

Pick up plenty of coal in one of the mines while making the trip there, save flares for starting the forge if you can’t find matches, stay prepped with torches.  
 

Build a HOT fire when skinning deer, RIGHT next to the deer. Cut the meat out first and have it cooking while harvesting the remaining hide and guts.  
 

There are fewer wolves in interloper, and walking away from them isn’t hard.  Just ignore the creepy music.
 

ML hunters stand in the clearing up river from the lake: bedroll.
 

 Don’t forget to take a trip to Milton on the way from ML to BR.  It’s worth the trip for food and matches.  
 

Don’t forget, the flare will always spawn at the bottom of the Ravine in the ML to CH transition.  Good for bears…

 

And finally, if you don’t like the challenge of interloper THAT much, don’t play it on interloper.  🤷🏻‍♂️

PS: if you read my post and use my suggestions, that’s cheating 🤣🤣🤣

[Semple Fi]

8 hours ago, Semple Fi said:

I haven’t seen any mention of BR….

 I’ve found in my interloper runs that skipping on FM and moving to BR has helped me tactically much more when it comes to forging arrow heads and a knife.  
 

There’s also a wealth of cattails along the way.  
 

Pick up plenty of coal in one of the mines while making the trip there, save flares for starting the forge if you can’t find matches, stay prepped with torches.  
 

Build a HOT fire when skinning deer, RIGHT next to the deer. Cut the meat out first and have it cooking while harvesting the remaining hide and guts.  
 

There are fewer wolves in interloper, and walking away from them isn’t hard.  Just ignore the creepy music.
 

ML hunters stand in the clearing up river from the lake: bedroll.
 

 Don’t forget to take a trip to Milton on the way from ML to BR.  It’s worth the trip for food and matches.  
 

Don’t forget, the flare will always spawn at the bottom of the Ravine in the ML to CH transition.  Good for bears…

 

And finally, if you don’t like the challenge of interloper THAT much, don’t play it on interloper.  🤷🏻‍♂️

PS: if you read my post and use my suggestions, that’s cheating 🤣🤣🤣

Edit: The Flare Gun will spawn at the ravine

[UpUpAway95]

10 hours ago, Semple Fi said:

I haven’t seen any mention of BR….

 I’ve found in my interloper runs that skipping on FM and moving to BR has helped me tactically much more when it comes to forging arrow heads and a knife.  
 

There’s also a wealth of cattails along the way.  
 

Pick up plenty of coal in one of the mines while making the trip there, save flares for starting the forge if you can’t find matches, stay prepped with torches.  
 

Build a HOT fire when skinning deer, RIGHT next to the deer. Cut the meat out first and have it cooking while harvesting the remaining hide and guts.  
 

There are fewer wolves in interloper, and walking away from them isn’t hard.  Just ignore the creepy music.
 

ML hunters stand in the clearing up river from the lake: bedroll.
 

 Don’t forget to take a trip to Milton on the way from ML to BR.  It’s worth the trip for food and matches.  
 

Don’t forget, the flare will always spawn at the bottom of the Ravine in the ML to CH transition.  Good for bears…

 

And finally, if you don’t like the challenge of interloper THAT much, don’t play it on interloper.  🤷🏻‍♂️

PS: if you read my post and use my suggestions, that’s cheating 🤣🤣🤣

I also like the Broken Railroad forge, but I think most interloper players prefer FM in order to manage the cabin fever risk and they don't like the narrowness of the entrance to the zone.  Personally, I don't like getting to the FM forge over the ice in the heavy fogs that tend to prevail in that area.  I have often ended up breaking through, so I prefer to stay with the tracks (which go into Broken Railroad).  I like desolation point, but I just never seem to be at that corner of the map these days. 

[Glacia]

3 hours ago, UpUpAway95 said:

but I think most interloper players prefer FM in order to manage the cabin fever risk and they don't like the narrowness of the entrance to the zone.

The office of the maintenance yard it's a safe place to sleep/hunt and does not contribute to cabin fever risk. You can literally stay in the office forever, using as a main base than the maintenace yard itself.

The most problematic aspect of the BR region on interloper early game it's how dangerous can be. Avoid wolves at narrow places can be tricky, and there are a lot of places in the entrance where a wolf can appear without making sounds and attacking you inmediatly.

[UpUpAway95]

1 hour ago, Glacia said:

The office of the maintenance yard it's a safe place to sleep/hunt and does not contribute to cabin fever risk. You can literally stay in the office forever, using as a main base than the maintenace yard itself.

The most problematic aspect of the BR region on interloper early game it's how dangerous can be. Avoid wolves at narrow places can be tricky, and there are a lot of places in the entrance where a wolf can appear without making sounds and attacking you inmediatly.

Wolves have to be cleared out of the area around Spence's as well to be safe.  Yes, you can sleep in the office in BR, but you cannot forge in the outdoors (or craft for that matter).  You must be inside for that.  As I said, it is my perceived reason for there being a preference.  My reason for preferring BR is simply to avoid walking around onto "thin ice" in a fog... nothing more. 

Note:  You also have to pass through a narrow area with several wolves to get to DP and the Riken (Crumbling Highway).  Getting into BR is really not much different.

 

Edited November 27, 2022 by UpUpAway95

[Semple Fi]

11 hours ago, UpUpAway95 said:

I also like the Broken Railroad forge, but I think most interloper players prefer FM in order to manage the cabin fever risk and they don't like the narrowness of the entrance to the zone.  Personally, I don't like getting to the FM forge over the ice in the heavy fogs that tend to prevail in that area.  I have often ended up breaking through, so I prefer to stay with the tracks (which go into Broken Railroad).  I like desolation point, but I just never seem to be at that corner of the map these days. 

I’ve just found it works out better for me early on by not deviating from the tracks 🙂

[UpUpAway95]

3 hours ago, James Hickok said:

You got me confused here. Didnt you say something about cheating? Playing like this is no fun at all 😕If you dont feel up to it just play a bit more on lower difficulty.

 

I know FM very very good and even in the fog i know where i am. I understand that it can be a problem for some. There is also a way to get to the FM safe but it takes a bit longer thus needs a stop or two for fire. If you go along the tracks towards BR, just before BR enterance you go left and there is a way to go up the hill and then pass the fallen tree and you exit near the cave with the broken signal tower. From there is easy to go down to forge. If its foggy and you dont feel safe its a good way to go there safe. BR can be nasty with blizzard and there are some choke points with wolves.

Thank you.  Yes, I am aware of that route (a poster here even made me a video a few years ago as I was having trouble finding the path up to the fallen tree and was winding up in the drink trying to get by the small island near that tree - which is surrounded by thin ice).  If I do opt to go to the FM forge instead of BR, I do usually take this longer route rather than venture across the ice.  Fog and thin ice are often my nemeses in this game.  My IRL vision frankly sucks and I get turned around easily.   Yes, the route through BR has choke points, but as long as the winds are calm, one can dissuade them with torches and stones... just the same as they can be dissuaded anywhere else until one finishes their bow (hopefully, one has carried in a maple and a couple of birch to cure there).  Then it's open season in the maintenance yard and perhaps even a quick moose by the bridge or up by the hunting lodge (which is, IMO, the nicest location on the map so far).  If there is a blizzard, you can usually get in without encountering wolves... and one still has the tracks to guide them most of the way.