On the value of exploration and discovery

[I_eat_only_wolf_meat]

I've been playing The Long Dark for a while now.  It's one of the best games I've played and I've been at it, off and on, since 1984 or so.  Back in my earliest days of PC gaming, PC games were hard.  Partly because they were designed that way, but mostly, I think, because you really had to figure things out for yourself.  Your sole recourse if you couldn't figure something out was to pay $29.95 for a softcover "strategy" guide.  If you were lucky, you might be able to ask a friend or find an answer on a BBS.  No youtube, no Facebook, no Twitter.  Just you.

As excellent as the wealth of youtube videos and Wiki pages are as sources of information, I feel like they are a trade-off.  By letting you know everything beforehand, they steal away some of the tension of exploration, and the joy of discovery.  I'm talking about the apprehension of, "If I climb down there, will I have to climb back up?  Will I be able to?  Will I have to?"  Or maybe the absolute surprise I felt when I discovered a particular cave in Timberwolf Mountain led to a vast, completely different place that I didn't even know existed.  The whole "rickety footbridge" area of Broken Railroad was a complete surprise, as was the ravine.  Don't even get me started about how excited I was when I discovered a boring looking, out of the way cave led to Hushed River Valley.  To me, the exploration is a large part of what I'm paying for.  Well-designed maps with a wealth of secrets to discover.

So before anyone gets worked up about me telling people how to play.  I firmly believe everyone should play in exactly the way that gives them the most enjoyment.  For some that may be carefully researching the whole game before venturing out.  That's fine.

I would only say that there are other ways to play, and some of you new players might enjoy stumbling through it like I did.

[twyn1]

Excellent points!

I, too, was a VERY early gamer (I recently found my hand-drawn map for "Zork" the other day in an old folder I had saved -- along with several pages of orientation points & codes for a game called "Driller/Oblivion" and lists of "Harvest Moon" recipes)

I do enjoy the challenge of figuring things out for myself.  My first few non-storyline runs of "The Long Dark" were just wandering/exploring and getting to know the maps on my own. Having done the story, there was already some idea of what led where, but so many more things to find as well.

Did a lot of stumbling around, walking in circles (still do that), and making bad choices on clothing and tools. Used up a lot of charcoal! But I did learn & it was  rewarding and mostly fun.

That said -- I also will use hints, maps, or do some researching when I find myself stalled, completely confused or in a frustrating "you died (again)" loop.  Not a big fan of watching You-Tubes, but these forums and the excellent maps available have been a huge help at times.

Agreed -- there's not a "wrong" or "right" way, in my opinion either ... whatever works for the player and makes the game enjoyable is good by me.

Enjoy!

[I_eat_only_wolf_meat]

@twyn1Zork... oh gosh.  I could probably find some of my old maps at my parents' house.  My favorite for the Apple II system we had was called "Wizardry".  It was a line graphics dungeon crawl with stacked, square-shaped levels and a rudimentary, turn-based combat system.  I had a blast!

[Kranium]

I'm with OP. The best part of this game (and games like it, in general) is the exploration/discovery aspect.

 

Although I do wish I didn't need to stumble upon/research the fact that I could perform certain actions. (eg. placing a tin close to a fire, rather than on a cooking slot, to simply warm it up. Or what that funny red icon is that pops up sometimes. *crack* Oh, I guess that's a sprain warning? Geez.) I looked around for a guide to that sort of thing, but they always contained spoilers in the midst of the stuff I was looking for.

[piddy3825]

West of House. You are standing in an open field west of a white house, with a boarded front door. There is a small mailbox here.

Ha ha ha, I remember asking myself, what's a grue?

 

Edited March 28, 2022 by piddy3825
spelling

[I_eat_only_wolf_meat]

48 minutes ago, piddy3825 said:

Ha ha ha, I remember asking myself, what's a grue?

"It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue."

[DiscoJonny]

Back to OP's post about exploration and discovery, 
I remember my uncle telling me about strategy guides they used to buy 
in order to get all the loot and find all the hidden treasures when they played
video games.   Of course that was almost 40 years ago now. 
But I kinda wish it was still that way. 

I typically don't watch playthroughs on YouTube as I'd rather be playing, but I do enjoy watching savvy players exploit glitches and bugs in their game
so as to get every possible advantage to improve their odds of winning.  But, when it comes down to exploration and learning my way around a map, 
nothing is better than actually playing the game and getting in the screen time.   

So, Kudos @I_eat_only_wolf_meat when you say "To me, the exploration is a large part of what I'm paying for.  Well-designed maps with a wealth of secrets to discover."

[peteloud]

On 3/26/2022 at 12:54 PM, I_eat_only_wolf_meat said:

. . . . I've been at it, off and on, since 1984 or so.

Ahhh!  you were a late developer. 

I remember playing Scott Adams Adventures on my Tandy TRS 80 clone in 1980 or 1981, and creating my first computer game then too.  They were the days when there was only PET, Apple & TRS 80.

I remember a group of friends around the computer being excited by two lines of text at the top of the screen and having to enter N, S, E or W. at the bottom.    And how all felt cheated when the mongoose was a squirrel and couldn't kill the snake..

[I_eat_only_wolf_meat]

3 hours ago, peteloud said:

I remember playing Scott Adams Adventures on my Tandy TRS 80 clone in 1980 or 1981

I did have a Tandy "Color Computer" at that time.  It used cassette tape and a kind of side-loaded ROM game cartridge.  We used the monochrome Tandy TRS-80 systems in elementary school.

The "Color Computer" resides in my upstairs closet to this day!

[Kranium]

We didn't have a computer, but I do remember how exciting it was when our school got a Commodore PET. One of my friends had PONG back in the day, that was pretty mind blowing for us kids. My uncle had a Tandy, and my cousins & I were right into King's Quest, our parents always had trouble prying us away from it lol. My most played games on Atari would have been Pitfall and Adventure.

Exploration games were always my favourite.

[dbmurph22]

I grew up with a C64. 

TLD can be an amazing experience at all junctures, but still the most magical times are when there was so much to know, both with maps and how to survive.  And I was immersed in that struggle.  I want people to play how they most enjoy it, but I'm a bit sad when people feel rushed to check maps and ask questions and so forth.  Often, people enjoy both the achievement aspect AND the experience/environment, but they are primarily driven by the former so it can create the desire to spoil early.  But I also think the culture promotes and pressures achievement a bit more (part of it is just natural human social aspects) that maybe those more on the fence could have had a better experience had they not rushed it, accepted some bad beats, and let themselves learn and discover more for themselves.  I get it for the people who can only have fun with accomplishment and/or they get frustrated early,  but I feel like the game really shines when you just discover and experience and grow to know. 

[hozz1235]

Good to see more 'ol timers on here like me.  My first exposure to PC games was a Basic programming language course I was taking my freshman year in HS (84).  The class ended as lunch break began.  As I would leave, I would notice a flood of guys coming IN.  Curious, I stuck around one day while they loaded up Ultima III on the Commodore 64s in the room.  My life was never the same...

On the topic of the OP, I do make an attempt to "work out things on my own" nowadays, but I have to admit, I don't spend too much time on a problem, just because I have so little free time to play.  The games are so massive these days (playing AC Odyssey now) and I'm such a completionist, I don't have that much time to devote to a single game.  There are so many great games these days and I want to experience them.  I guess this is my justification for "cheating" sometimes.

By the way, I booted up a dosbox of the original Bard's Tale - whole party died in first encounter!

Anyone play the AD&D Gold Box games back then?  I loved 'em.

[peteloud]

Way back in early '80s  I set up an IT training company that concentrated on giving IT training to problem teenagers.  Some of the kids had been rebellious, troublesome and kicked out of school.  IT training, and playing those early games tansformed those young guys.  They changed from being troublesome kids, who the establishment regarded as the dregs of young people, to being committed to IT.  Some of them very quickly got very good jobs in computing and developed very good careers.

[I_eat_only_wolf_meat]

17 hours ago, hozz1235 said:

Anyone play the AD&D Gold Box games back then?  I loved 'em.

Pool of Radiance.  Loved it.  Is that the series you're referring to?

[hozz1235]

10 hours ago, I_eat_only_wolf_meat said:

Pool of Radiance.  Loved it.  Is that the series you're referring to?

Yes, that's the first game in that series.