Mix of ideas / brainstorming :)

[oplli]

i just realised how i am posting too much on this wish list xD today i posted 4 new ideas so yeah it a lot... i will add all my ideas in one post instead of making new post everytime i have an idea

so my first idea was to being able to OVER customise our sandboxes. what i mean by that (beacause we already can play a lot with it) is:

- being able to disable the spawn of everything in the game and its spawn chances so you can really decide if you dont want certain items

- being able to start with wathever we want at the start of a sandbox  for example: (an aluminum can a a rock) or (socks and a knife) or  (nothing) 

-being able to makes the world colder (i mean really colder) -100C degrees if we want

-being able to make the weather cycle even more random on a shorter period of the time and being able to make the days longer/shorter and the same for the nights

-being able to chose exaclty where we spawn

-being able to save custom settings not juste having a code that is linked to the specific settings...

this could let us make EXTREMELY difficult survival situation and controll how it starts

 

Now my second idea is a challenge idea wich i think could be even more difficult than as the dead sleeps beacause the trouble here is everything that you have in ATDS but also you have time as a problem...

 

(the beggining has been ispired by someone on the topic so it is no mine) You live near milton at the paradise meadows farm and it is the end of the winter... you take some week off to go see a member of your familly at the blackrock federal prison. when you are there an earthquacke happens at milton and blocks all the possible entrances to the region. except one: by forlon muskeg at marsh ridge. The only way you can get back to your familly to check if they are safe is by FM and the winter is near ending... we all know that FM is a dangerous path during winter so its not even imaginable near the spring as the ice gets thiner and thiner, sooner or later the path is going to be untakeable. But our hero wants to try his luck and start by foot from Blackrock and travels to his house. now the challenge is right here you will have two days to go from blackrock to your house and without taking the fastest shortcuts it is not going to be possible. on the way multiple dangers will come: blizzards wolf packs bears hunger. everything that we know. now if you finally get to marsh ridge alive you will still have to go from milton bassin to your house and there is still thin ice and big bears there... you will have to pay attention.

the last part is the most beautiful one if you finally get to your house after climbing one of the highest climbing spot in the game you will finally see your home and a beautiful and peaceful spring hitting the plains as a reward for this challenge...

 

Now here is an idea about a new region that would really make sense to implement a semi industrial/semi comercial zone on the coast...

 

i know that the devs are already working on a new region but we never have enough ideas !

The idea is a region in wich all the goods in the long dark come from. If we think about it there is no propper habour so i was thinking that we need (for logical issues and player interest) a map that is connected to sea with an habour and to the rest of the world with a railraod and a road connexion. Some stores like a little grocery store, outdoor store for fishing and hunting, drug store, even a small airport could be nice to have . Where did will thaught he were going to land ? And there is already two planes crash on this island there gotta be some big air traffic near great bear. The kind of place where the local population could go once a year to refill their stocks for their watchtower or trappers cabins hehe.

this leaves some space for another map that is conected to a road between BI and CH maybe blackrock? or a national park? (this is only speculative if there is no road between bleak inlet and coastal highway my idea is a little useless so i have to fill it with something xD)

abandoned touristic national park could be nice just sayi'n ; )

 

So this last idea could seem a little crazy and i dont expect a lot of feedbacks in favor of it. In fact i dont even know if it would be great to the game this is why im putting the subject on the table

 

 

I was just thinking about some random things that could be happening during a sandbox randomly but those things can completely change the way you play and you will have to adapt.

i am talking about forest fire, earthquacke, BIG BIG BIG blizzard, etc. the type of things that modify the environement for ever (in a single sandbox)

those things like the forest fire could destroy some part of the forest or even small buildings and change it forever lets say there is a population of deers living in that burning forest then once it has burned down the deers will migrate and you will have to find where they migrated if you wanna eat the next couple of days. the deers will never come back to the burned forest. In the case of a building you will no longer be able to acess it (there are already some buildings that have burned versions so i assume thst it wont be that difficult to add that, same for trees.

the earthquacke could block entrances to some regions (as we know it regions all have multiple places where you can acess em so you will have to take other path some could be longer than before. it could also scare animals away, lest say you are tracked by a wolf it could be the one event that saved your live but will make it more difficult after that...

big blizzards could destroy windows of houses making em less protected to the cold. it could also take down big trees wich could potentially block entrances to places in the world. maybe they could even make you unable to breathe if facing the wind it would force you to stay inside during the blizzard.

now, individually some are easier to implement in the game but for the big blizzards especially i think that it would be extremely difficult to implement it would need to be falling tree coded case by case and widows coded case by case it would also require to make every interiors building that would have breakable windows to now adapt em to the outside map...

 

 

Please  if you want to add ideas to my list (im talking about the custom sandbox list) do not write a seaprate comment  quote it so at the end we can get a full and complete wishlist 

also feel free to comment and give your feedbacks on the other subjects have a nice day y'all

Edited September 13, 2020 by oplli

[oplli]

Another thing that i wanna mention

 

Bears are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too easy to kill.

thanks

[oplli]

13 hours ago, oplli said:

We should be able to craft without a workbench some clothes depending on your skill level of that type (or with propper tools)

lets say its called leathercrafting:

at level 1 you can craft rabbitskin clothes (they are less effective than ones made on workbench)

at level 2 you can craft deerskin clothes (rabbitskin items are like on the workbench, deerkin less effective than on the workbench)

at level 3 you can craft wolfskin clothes (deerskin items are like on the workbench, wolfskin less effective than on the workbench)

at level 4 it is bearskin clothes and sleeping bag (wolfskin items are like on the workbench, bearskin less effective than on the workbench)

and finally at level 5 every items are the sameooseskin i would be too squality than ones made on the workbench (still not able to make things out of mtrong.

 

we can repair clothes anywhere so why cant we make em everywhere?

i was not able to edit it so i modified the quote

Edited September 13, 2020 by oplli

[oplli]

Hinterland, can you change the nomad challenge? it is currently way too long to do it and way too easy. i find myself passing the time over and over again to complete it. im only at the third location and i am already bored there is still like 30-35 days to go and do nothing during those days. I suggest that as a modification: 

we spawn at the barn as we already do and we have to gear up like a real nomad would do. minimal performant and light gear. we have a checklist this one is an example:

-expedition parka

-cargopants

-good boots

-bow and arrows

-firestriker

cooking pot

that should be it. Once you completed that list you have to go from point A to point B you stay there 12 hours but not TREE DAYS and you have like 7 or 8 stops maximum before reaching where the challenge takes us. it could be all before a big blizzards comes.

 

for now i see this challenge as a long, boring, unlearningful experience. this idea will not make the challenge shorter but it would make it more fun.

[oplli]

we need one or multiple uses to the cannery in interlopper. that is extremely dissapointing to have a new region but that has litterally no use in interlopper . the region is dangerous, has not that much loot and it is hard to access to its main interest (the cannery) wich is totally fine but not for intelopper. i suggest three things to fix that: being able to access the cannery in interlopper without the code (as a temporary fix). or adding objects that has a real impact in interlopper and that we need to craft inside the cannery. or adding a forge inside the cannery, an electrical forge that you can use without fuel during aurora (or just a regular forge).

[ManicManiac]

22 minutes ago, oplli said:

that is extremely dissapointing to have a new region but that has litterally no use in interlopper .

If anyone has better information, please correct me.

I heard it was possible to find a ruined revolver in HRV on interloper (I don't know if that was a bug or intended).  The implication being that one might eventually be able to repair said revolver and potentially make ammo for it (since spent casings can potentially be found in containers).

Edited September 16, 2020 by ManicManiac

[oplli]

Just now, ManicManiac said:

If anyone has better information, please correct me.

I heard it was possible to find a ruined revolver in HRV on interloper (I don't know if that was a bug or intended).  The implication being that one might eventually be able to repair said revolver and potentially make ammo for it (since spent casings can potentially be found in containers).

yes it was possible but it has been patched it was a bug if im correct

[DeLe]

Permanent destructions (fallen trees, rail broken by earthquakes, burned forests) are absoutely unacceptable due to huge map changing in case of long-term survival.

[DeLe]

21 hours ago, oplli said:

no use in interlopper

You can use milling machine to repair not only weapon but knive, hatchet and hacksaw for scrap. This feature might be useful when you run out of whitestones.

[ManicManiac]

22 minutes ago, DeLe said:

Permanent destructions (fallen trees, rail broken by earthquakes, burned forests) are absoutely unacceptable due to huge map changing in case of long-term survival.

I think that's a fair point (if a little bit strongly worded).

I think it would be a mistake for Hinterland to put so much time and consideration in balancing each region, and then turn around and implement "instances" that would very likely undermine (of not out right destroy) that careful balance.

I'm also of the mind that I don't think that the survival sandbox should have events that would force a player to take certain actions or go to certain places by virtue of their effects.  I think that's what the Wintermute story mode is for.  I think that events like those described would be better as individual challenges... (much like the Whiteout Challenge)

[ManicManiac]

32 minutes ago, DeLe said:

You can use milling machine to repair not only weapon but knive, hatchet and hacksaw for scrap. This feature might be useful when you run out of whitestones.

Good point.  I hadn't considered it's potential usefulness for the other tools.
Then with the milling machine, we can even recover ruined tools (knives/axes/hacksaws)... that does open up some interesting possibilities.

Well observed.

[Addendum]
This leads me to think about a "One Tool Set" type challenge, where I am only allowed to keep/use the first knife, axe, and hacksaw that I come across (or craft) for the entirety of the run & all others found must get immediately broken down. 

Edited September 16, 2020 by ManicManiac

[oplli]

Just now, DeLe said:

You can use milling machine to repair not only weapon but knive, hatchet and hacksaw for scrap. This feature might be useful when you run out of whitestones.

of course but you will never run out of wetstones  plus lets say you do at some point, if you eventually run out of wetstones wich never happened to me ever and will probably not happend before days 1000 of a run and i would say even more, you will prefer to go at the nearest forge and forge a buch of tools in safety near your base than going into the ravine then in bleak inlet find the code to the cannery, go to the cannery wait until aurora survive the multiple timberwolf pack that you are going to encounter (there is one timberwolf pack at every entrance in the cannery) all that to finally repair some tools... then what you dont have wetstone anymore so you have two options. live in bleak inlet, or do that journey really often to repair your tools again and again. So yes those are options but beacause we dont need the cannery before MUUUULTIPLES days i dont consider it interesting enough in its current state in interlopper. i dont see anything bad in adding some uses to the cannery, you will still be able to repair your tools etc etc.

Just now, ManicManiac said:

With the milling machine, we can even recover ruined tools (knives/axes/hacksaws)... that does open up some interesting possibilities.

yes that is a great thing but again we can only go forge new ones instead of all that trouble. we need a accessible early game use in interlopper for the cannery.

What could be great is the possibility to make the bear spear head in the cannery wich would absolutely be interesting enough to face the dangers of Bleak inlet

i think once you @ManicManiac wrote that the devs were planning on integrating it to the survival mode maybe this is already what they are thinking. please correct me if im wrong.

[ManicManiac]

9 minutes ago, oplli said:

of course but you will never run out of wetstones

I think that's also a fair point.   I know I've never lived long enough to actually run out of anything.
It's also true we can (albeit very rarely) even find more of them while beachcombing.

 

12 minutes ago, oplli said:

yes that is a great thing but again we can only go forge new ones instead of all that trouble.

Agreed... and for the most part I would say (depending on how we prepared) it's likely to be simpler to just go to a forge.  I guess I was really just pondering the possibilities not really the practicality. 

 

16 minutes ago, oplli said:

i think once you @ManicManiac wrote that the devs were planning on integrating it to the survival mode

Yes, when episodes 1 & 2 - Redux arrived... Raph did speak about the possibility of trying to work the idea of the Bear Spear into something they felt was suitable for it's inclusion into survival mode.  In Wintermute it was more of a specific plot device, so I definitely understand why they did not included it in the sandbox at the time.

[DeLe]

12 hours ago, ManicManiac said:

I think that's what the Wintermute story mode is for.  I think that events like those described would be better as individual challenges... (much like the Whiteout Challenge)

 

Yes, I agree with that point. Challenges are perfect field for experiments with new mechanics. "Archivist" challenge was interesting idea following implemented aurora and working computers. I would say Story Mod is more appropriate for non-linear directing. I didn't like sections in Redux when bear attacked you in bottlenecks with cutscenes. Pretty cheap move to open world game like TLD.

 

11 hours ago, ManicManiac said:

Yes, when episodes 1 & 2 - Redux arrived... Raph did speak about the possibility of trying to work the idea of the Bear Spear into something they felt was suitable for it's inclusion into survival mode.  In Wintermute it was more of a specific plot device, so I definitely understand why they did not included it in the sandbox at the time.

Do you really think bear spear is useful? Can you explain what is it good for? Obviously it's not for defence purpose, since you want to carry additional 4 kg every time you go outdoors. Is it bear hunting? Maybe it's only me, but I prefer to shoot the bear in great distance using bow. I liked Predux bear bossfight even more. Maybe it wasn't so fascinating, but it's also not so cliche like hit and run in small cave.

[DeLe]

On 9/16/2020 at 3:37 AM, oplli said:

able to access the cannery in interlopper without the code

Why don't you like password access? I think, it's interesting little puzzle if you came to Bleak Inlet for the first time. Also I noticed aurora happening much more even when you are in Bleak Inlet, so you could get in cannery faster. 

Edited September 17, 2020 by DeLe

[ManicManiac]

4 hours ago, DeLe said:

Do you really think bear spear is useful?

That's not me, per se...  Raph was talking about it at the time.
Personally I don't think it's all that necessary given the weapons we already have, and I personally don't think we really need anymore.

As for the subject of potential merits the spear itself:
I would posit that it is a defensive weapon.  If we look at the gameplay of episode 2, we can't though it.  Bear spears work because they are braced against the ground and depend on the bear impaling itself.  Given it relies on the bear to attack makes it a purely defensive weapon.  In the context of both the story mode and survival sandbox, it's really just a dedicated tool for dealing with bears.  Soo... while I tend to agree it would not have any use beyond that, it is highly effective in it's dedicated purpose.  I think the idea being, you'd only want to have it with you when you planned on hunting a bear.

What I liked about the Bear Spear in Story Mode is that it wasn't just some over powered weapon... it came with personal risk.  (Excluding the bit where we were dealing with what was characterize as a "Demon Bear" that was only harmed by the "Sacred Spear") The bear spear itself just made it possible to win a struggle with a bear.  The player still gets roughed up a bit, but not so much as a full on mauling. 

The part I didn't like about that aspect of Episode 2... was that every time you met the bear it required boss battle-like tactics (in that we needed to impale the thing 3 times each time we encountered it -- again though that was because it was characterized as a "Demon Bear").

I guess for survival mode I'd envision it working as a purely defensive weapon, only useful against a charging Bear (*Maybe/possibly a charging Moose).  The player would get roughed up in the struggle, and take some damage (torn clothes/bruises/bleeding wounds/sprains - basically anything we might get from a standard wolf struggle).  Even though the struggle might be potentially longer and/or more difficult than the standard  wolf struggle...  if the struggle was won, there would lay our impaled foe.  (I'm thinking about that scene from the movie "The Edge" as I write this)

So... while not a necessary addition, I think it could potentially be an interesting one. 
And, as I mentioned before... I only really give it consideration in the first place because Raph spoke in the past about it's possible inclusion in to Survival Mode.

Edited September 17, 2020 by ManicManiac

[ManicManiac]

2 hours ago, DeLe said:

I think, it's interesting little puzzle if you came to Bleak Inlet for the first time.

100% Agreed

[UTC-10]

I sometimes think that Hinterland should include things, like switches and devices,  that can be interacted with apparently no effect in normal survival play but can have applicability at a later date.  As a means to drive players MAD when the aurora kicks in and obviously something gets powered, but we don't know what and cannot find out, when the breaker or shunt was thrown would be evil.  It might even be misleading.  😁 

 

[DeLe]

5 hours ago, ManicManiac said:

I would posit that it is a defensive weapon.  If we look at the gameplay of episode 2, we can't though it.  Bear spears work because they are braced against the ground and depend on the bear impaling itself.

That is the point I think you might be wrong. Demon Bear is supposed to be killed though he is extremely agressive. Jeremiah hires you to kill him. He consideres spear as offensive weapon in this situation. I admit you were correct about describing agressive bear impiling himself, but spear is strategically offensive weapon.
Ordinary sandbox bears are very slow and predictable predators. You don't even have to run, when you see one. You can just walk away calmly. All you need is a bit of attention and knowledle of their spawn points. You sure don't need 4 kg spear in your backpack to defend against bear. I usually carry a hatchet for protection purposes. It is perfect tool in struggle against wolf. But 95% of my protection is being attentive and getting round of them.
Things change completely when you are actually hunting bear. You can use spear to attract him and impale. Another question is why would you let the bear come close to you, if you can shoot him from afar and even kill with a single critical hit? I'd say, Hinterland will have to male bow/rifle/revolver less effective against bear.

[ManicManiac]

1 hour ago, DeLe said:

That is the point I think you might be wrong...

This seems to me that it's more like it's perhaps a difference of perspective rather than right or wrong.
I'll try to explain what I mean:

Simply based on the definition of offensive (actively aggressive; attacking) is where I'm rooting my thoughts on it... 

Yes, we are tasked with seeking out and dealing with the bear... but in terms of who is attacking whom in those encounters.  The spear wouldn't work if the bear wasn't charging.  In other words, it's bear who is on the attack... making our use of the spear in these encounters defensive.

As I mentioned before... we aren't really impaling the bear, the bear is effectively impaling itself as it tries to maul us.
To put it another way:  We aren't charging the bear with the spear... the bear is charging us and running into the spear.

Edited September 17, 2020 by ManicManiac
Edited for clarification

[oplli]

7 hours ago, DeLe said:

Why don't you like password access? I think, it's interesting little puzzle if you came to Bleak Inlet for the first time. Also I noticed aurora happening much more even when you are in Bleak Inlet, so you could get in cannery faster. 

yes i like it i like the challenge it is but ido not like to have a challenge to get nothing or almost in return if i achieve like in intelopper. this feature at the moment is better in stalker and lower difficulty.

 

Just now, ManicManiac said:

Simply based on the definition of offensive (actively aggressive; attacking) is where I'm rooting my thoughts on it... 

the spear does the same job wether it is offensive or not so lets talk about fact now. the bear spear can be used against bears wolves and i would bet on moose. wich already is a great tool beacause it protect you at some point by all dangerous animal in the game. wich i think is a little bit too powerful but for now it is what it is. why would you waste ammo if you get an unlimited use item that is great to hunt bears? i dont really apreciate the fact that it is that heavy but it will provide some new things to the gameplay. another thing is that hinterland are maybe thinking about adding some new animals in the future maye they would be bigger than the bear or the moose and this spear will be even more useful. At the point were we had the rifle and the bow we did not hought that there could be more weapons but they added the stone and the revolver and now the spear in a near future so we dont know what the future has to offer and i am shure that the spear will have more use than it has already. the spear is already made so i think that the devs are waiting for another big update to implement the spear in wich it will be more useful in survival mode .

[DeLe]

12 hours ago, ManicManiac said:

Yes, we are tasked with seeking out and dealing with the bear... but in terms of who is attacking whom in those encounters.  The spear wouldn't work if the bear wasn't charging.  In other words, it's bear who is on the attack... making our use of the spear in these encounters defensive.

I got your point of veiw. I try to explain myself too. What is the difference between offensive and defensive doctrina? In first, you want to find, charge and kill your target priorly. Long distance shot is preferable. You can also go in close combat either to wound your enemy and make it bleed to death. You can pick heavy and and unwieldy weapon you wouldn't carry every day. So you need long-barreled weapon (like rifle) or steel arms. In defencive doctrina you prefer to avoid any encounter if it's possible. You don't want to kill opponent, you just want to have no damage, keep distance between you and aggressor, scare it off as effective and fast as you can. You need small weapon or tool you can carry all the time. I mentioned hatchet as everyday protective tool. If I preferred carrying knive as a struggle weapon, I would assume more offensive doctrina. As a consensus, we can consider spear as both offensive and defensive weapon. While using a spear, you stand your ground and use bear's agressive against him. Also you want to kill bear with the only possible way. Flare and and distress pistol are more defensive weapon in case of bear attack in sandbox. Bow and rifle are more offensive weapon intended for hunting bear. It's not really the long dark discussion topic, just some interesting information I want to share.😎

[ManicManiac]

13 hours ago, oplli said:

lets talk about fact now

I was talking about fact to begin with. 
What's being discussed now seems to me more akin opinion and semantics...

  

13 hours ago, oplli said:

the bear spear can be used against bears wolves and i would bet on moose.

I can agree about it's effectiveness against charging bears and perhaps even moose (I spoke about that in the previous post where I discuss how I'd envision it working).  However, I'd tend to think that wolves are far more nimble (if only due to the fact that they are so much lighter), I really don't see the wolves in this game just throwing themselves onto a spear, especially when they are so good at juking when we are simply just aiming in to take a shot. 

Yes, I know that has more to do with terrain and pathing, I just think that should be bear spear ever make it to Survival... I'd rather it be a weapon dedicated to allowing the player to win a struggle with the only two animals that it's currently not possible to win struggles with (a.k.a. the bear and the moose). 
------

 

4 hours ago, DeLe said:

What is the difference between offensive and defensive doctrina? In first, you want to find, charge and kill your target priorly.

okay... but again, in those instances where we are actually encounter the bear... we don't charge (therefore we are not technically the one's attacking during that specific exchange... which was my point).

Also, I wasn't talking about the "doctrine" (philosophy/principles) regarding the difference between offensive and defensive.
I was referring to the actual meaning of the word.  I wasn't discussing motive or intent... I was talking about the specifics of the individual encounters.  Again it seems it's just a difference of opinion/perspective.
-----

 
I've enjoyed discussing the Bear Spear... but I think this is starting to just go around in circles due to differences of opinion and perspective; which for me is getting a bit tiresome.  I've said my piece, we don't have to agree.

 

Edited September 18, 2020 by ManicManiac
Edited for clarification