Bow and Arrow

[pikkue]

So if adding a bow then reducing the ammo for the rifle ??

I seriously don't get it. Why a bow when we have a rifle. If the developers would want us to use more long distance weapons, they just add more ammo.

Why we need a spear to fend off wolves if we have a prybar ?

Well mate.. I don't know...

[MrMango]

The concerns for balance are understandable, however, I don't see it being effected all that much.

Expecially when there is bigger wildlife being introduced (Bears, Elk etc.) it shouldn't really be such a big deal. There really need to be more tools to fend off wildlife/hunt in the game, the hunting rifle is a very limiting factor in that regard.

And yes, while you shouldn't be able to Rambo your way through hordes of wolves, while throwing their pelts and meat over your shoulder, there need to be more ways to defend yourself against these gigantic wolf populations. (They propably are the dominant species on earth at this rate.)

About the player character being unable to effectivly craft a bow - crafting a bow that "works" isn't something you need years of experience and perfect materials for and since the character is able to achieve some truly amazing things (such as crafting a wolf-coat, deerskin boots and repair things with the most basic materials) crafting a bow and arrow shouldn't be a far shot.

I had a similiar post on the steam forums where a guy posted his self-made crossbow with basic materials and only simple materials you'd find in any toolbox. So yeah, with enough time, patience and so on, making a bow as well as arrows shouldn't be a far stretch.

About finding a bow/crossbow, well, yes. One would think they'd have stuff like that up there. I once spent 2 weeks in sweden hunting with my girlfriends family and up there (was pretty far north) everyone, even those that were usually living there, had some sort of hunting weapon in their house.

Regarding harpoons or spears, well, I'd definitly like to see that in the game. Generally with hunting knife, prybar or axe you should have the upper hand against a lone wolf. However, would I want to face a bear with a self-made spear or a small hunting rifle? Uhm, propably not.

[Lux]

Also, you know they can add the bow crafting and then just add 1 rifle spawn to both maps combined. So 1 rifle and when you find it, its broken/rusted/locked up, needs repaired and after you repair it there are maybe 5 rounds of ammo on both maps combined, for it. Or whatever until the game is balanced.

The self made bow could have WAY less range... like 20-30' effective hit range and, not kill. Only wound. So you'd have to track the prey and get another 1-3 shots in to it before it fell. Exciting? Difficult? Realistic? ...i guess, depends on the bow.

Of course you'd have people saying, "I could build a better bow than that" that have never crafted anything in their RL.

But you'd also have people saying, "I could build a better bow than that" that cOULd actually build a more effective bow.

"I can only carry oNe weapon and knife?" ...its like, "why do you need anything other than a knife?"

I do think being able to tie the knife to a sapling to put a little distance between you and "whatever" would also be good/real/smart/something you might do. Especially if you had TWO knives.

Actually my wolfskin coat has 4 knife holders inside and I use them as throwing knives now... like Danny Trejo from Desperado.

[TheMig]

... that most bows "found" in the game would be of carbon-fiber construction and far less limited by the influence of cold.

Um....wha? So you're saying that most bows found in the Canadian wilderness would be made of carbon fiber? ...um...yeah...that's realistic. :shock:

In a hunting/fishing region of the great white north where you're finding hunting rifles and fishing huts, I think you can easily make the case that you'd find a few compound bows up there.

[EternityTide]

You'd likely find a few crossbows as well, I'd imagine. Even in the backwards, tech-phobic country I live in has crossbows (That's Wales, by the way)

[HarryM]

I like the idea of having a spear. I'd much rather have the reach of a spear if I were fending off a wolf than a knife. You'd have 2 levels of spear, a basic one and an advanced one. The way it could work would be.

Basic Spear: Material, Fir firewood, Need to have Hunting Knife or Hatchet to craft. Gives some bonus to wolf melees. Would be nice to have as wieldable weapon like the rifle.

Advanced Spear: Material. Basic Spear + Gut + Hunting Knife, a spear with hunting knife lashed to the front. No tools required to craft. Breaks back down into basic components. Obviously only really practical if you have extra hunting knives.

[elloco999]

So the spear would be used as a melee weapon, not as a ranged (throwing)? While I would gladly have the reach of a spear when encountering a wolf, it also has 1 huge drawback. Once the wolf is past the tip of the spear, it will become useless as a weapon. There's no way you would be able to maneuver the spear so you could hit the wolf with the pointy end once the wolf is on top of you. So I don't see the spear giving a bonus in the current wolf fight mechanism.

It would need to be a wieldable weapon like the rifle that you can use to hold a wolf off, maybe hurt it some when it attacks you with a small chance of doing serious damage or even killing it outright. The wolf might get scared off by this. But the spear gets dropped once the wolf gets close enough to start the struggle and you then fight the wolf as you do now. This way it gives you a chance to scare the wolf off, hurt or kill it before struggle begins, giving you a better chance against wolves.

[Lux]

Yes. And obviously you'd still need to have a second knife on your person (adds carry weight in exchange for defense) or like you say, if the wolf closes distance and comes in to attack, you wouldn't have a way to defend unless you're carrying a hatchet or another knife.

Yes. If you have a thrusting action with a spear equipped, you could possibly jab the wolf and frighten it off or slightly wound it, curtailing the attack.

But I guess it would be like a repairable infinite flare in that sense but only if you were able to aim for thrusting properly. It may be difficult to implement but would be neat.

[HarryM]

Actually that's not the case, you can use a short thrusting spear (5 or 6')at close range (if you are holding with 2 hands) you simply move one or both hands closer to the point. If you are thinking of typical historical combat with spear and shield that is not possible, and most people think of the spear in that context.

[Lux]

Well sure. I just didn't think the devs wanted to make multiple animations for going from holding the back few feet of the spear to the front few feet of it. Typically, animations in other games are fairly constrained with no hand movement other than reloading, drawing back, etc. They don't change attack position for the most part.

If a wolf gets in close or surprises you from the back, the last thing you want is 3-6 feet of pole attached to your knife.

That's all I was getting at.

[HarryM]

Fair enough regarding the animations. I simply think that in general terms having the basic wooden pointed hand-held spear as a first line of defense is a pretty obvious thing, it would be the very first thing I would make if I were in a survival situation where there were dangerous animals. It has the side benefit as a walking support in rough terrain. I'd welcome a throwable one (javelin) as well though it would be harder to make and use one effectively.

[elloco999]

Actually that's not the case, you can use a short thrusting spear (5 or 6')at close range (if you are holding with 2 hands) you simply move one or both hands closer to the point. If you are thinking of typical historical combat with spear and shield that is not possible, and most people think of the spear in that context.

I was thinking of using the spear as a 2 handed weapon, but the thing is, when the wolf draws near you'd hold the spear for maximum range to hold off the wolf. But when the wolf decides to attack you only get 1 chance to hurt it with the spear. When you don't hurt it enough (or not at all), the wolf will be on you going for your throat. You would not get the time to switch to holding it by the end and even if you did, stabbing with a 2m long spear is much harder than with a knife. You still have 1.8m sticking out hindering you in your movement. Also you'd need 1 arm to keep the wolf from ripping your throat open. This is why I don't think the spear fits in the current wolf struggle mechanism.

Fair enough regarding the animations. I simply think that in general terms having the basic wooden pointed hand-held spear as a first line of defense is a pretty obvious thing, it would be the very first thing I would make if I were in a survival situation where there were dangerous animals. It has the side benefit as a walking support in rough terrain. I'd welcome a throwable one (javelin) as well though it would be harder to make and use one effectively.

I do agree with you that a spear would be a good defensive tool and I would make one myself if I were in such a situation. It's not hard to make a pointed stick. It's also not very hard to harden the point using fire. Now you've got yourself a weapon that primitive man used to kill animals... So yes, I would do this myself. But I don't think it fits with the current mechanism, so either the mechanism should be changed or the spear should function differently from the knife, hatchet and prybar.

[The_Hawk35]

I think that a defensive spear would fit in very well with the feel of the game. It's something that you'd likely create out of available materials, it couldn't be effectively use to attack at range, and it is an effective tool for fending off predators.

Remember that predators are at heart lazy, they will go for the easy to kill over the thing that takes more effort. They have maintained a lot of this mechanic showing the wolves fear of fire and gun shots.

So a sharpened stick would be very useful in fending off a wolf. If the wolf DOES close in despite being poked,, the stick becomes a way to prevent the wolf from using their jaws. You just have them bite on the stick and not on you, it allows you to punch them with the other hand without getting nearly as badly damaged.

[EternityTide]

just musing aloud here, but what about a battleaxe? lashing a hatchet to the end of a pole would allow you to slash and hack as well as brain wolves. Just a thought, but nothing serious (I've just been playing Skyrim, so I thought of axes)

[The_Hawk35]

just musing aloud here, but what about a battleaxe? lashing a hatchet to the end of a pole would allow you to slash and hack as well as brain wolves. Just a thought, but nothing serious (I've just been playing Skyrim, so I thought of axes)

I'm intentionally not including items where you 'just strap something on a stick' as that's a lot more difficult than you'd think and a REALLY good way to lose the tool you strapped onto the end.

To make it work properly you really need to create a socket of some kind for the point to sit in.

[EternityTide]

you could always just remove the axehead and socket it onto the top of a longer handle

[The_Hawk35]

you could always just remove the axehead and socket it onto the top of a longer handle

Now that would work.

[coyote86]

Surely a bow and arrow would be useful but considering the windchill and whirlwinds that happen quite often, it would be used quite rarely. Unwanted trajectory, attracting unwanted wolf attention on miss-fire and all that jazz..

[EternityTide]

I do believe we have may have over-thought this concept... Despite my objections on physics grounds, I would like to see Bows added. But we shouldn't go so far into the theory of how bows work and what effects the weather and conditions will have on the tensile strength of bowstring and the arrow's trajectory. I think at this point we need to weigh it's benefits against it's cons, and add to that the effort to code and implement it, and then see if it comes out positive, if it doesn't, it won't be added.

[SteveP]

On 2014-12-02 at 2:50 PM, EternityTide said:

Additionally, you would never poison your arrows to hunt, as you would be poisoning your meat, rendering it inedible.

The indigenous hunters of Africa and South America use local poisons but the poison does not taint the meat. Curare. There's nothing toxic in Canada that would be equivalent that I know about.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curare

[SteveP]

On 2015-01-10 at 4:52 AM, Lux said:

Um....wha? So you're saying that most bows found in the Canadian wilderness would be made of carbon fiber? ...um...yeah...that's realistic.

Why do you say Canadian wilderness wouldn't have modern bows any less than anywhere else? We're not backwards mate!