Bow and Arrow


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Welcome! What I would like to discuss here is what I feel could be a major contribution to The Long Dark. One of the simplest weapons (aside from the atlatl) is the bow and arrow! Of course even the simplest weapons require lots of crafting, but you could do it like this. Two to three hours for the arrow shaft, two to three for arrows made out of loose obsidian rock or bones. One to two hours for the fletching. Four to six hours for the bow, two to three for the string (could be made of sinew, which is acquired from bone) and then you put it all together in around six to eight hours. The damage would be minimal, but the system would be great considering it would be quiet, and rather reusable. This could lead to an in depth injury system, one to two arrows make a wolf limp, three or four and it is down. And as always, the more you use a bow the more your skill levels up. Any ideas?

-Razznak

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Welcome! What I would like to discuss here is what I feel could be a major contribution to The Long Dark. One of the simplest weapons (aside from the atlatl) is the bow and arrow! Of course even the s

I'm personally in favor of adding the bow and arrow. It makes long-term sandbox adventures viable, given that rifle ammo is such a limited resource in most playthroughs. Realistically, it's more than

Yeah, but those are simply replacements for items that you can find plenty of, and that don't give you more advantage than cold reduction; *and* it doesn't guarantee food in the way a craftable (or si

The long standing problem here is the conditions the bow will be subjected to. Cold causes the bowstring and bow limbs to become brittle, and liable to snap. I would suggest the ability to craft bowstring, but the bow and the arrows would have to be found.

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It already takes skill and practice to be able to get close enough to an animal so you can shoot it, no matter what weapon you use.

And of course it also takes practice to hit something with a gun. I've shot with both bow and arrows and a rifle. With a little practice I was able to hit the targets with both with reasonable precision. Now there's a great difference between hitting a stationary paper target in a well lit room with no influence from the weather and hitting an animal in the wild, but that is true for both types of weapons. The only real advantage the rifle gets you is that you don't have to get as close as with a bow and arrow, lowering the chance of spooking the animal.

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it depends on the bow. I have an acrylic recurve bow with a draw weight of 40lb (sadly, last week I found its lower limb had warped, so I can't use it safely any longer) which is powerful enough to take down anything aside from particularly large animals, from quite a distance (50 meters +) but it also depends on your arrows. Sadly i'm not supposed to use as heavy a bow as I have been using, because I am still only 17, and the stress of a repetitive use of a 40lb bow could damage the ends of my bones and joints.

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I think the addition of other weapons is a great idea especially if they are craft-able and take a lot of skill/time to make. There may also be a need to practice with them as well but how about a hunting harpoon for fighting wolves as well as fishing.

The answer to brittleness in a bow could be fur lined insulation to keep away the harsher weather from the most vulnerable ends and a combination of metal parts to re-enforce the other bits. The string may just need to be replaceable from time to time. A Harpoon isn't as poor a weapon in the winter/cold conditions as you might think as they were used for whale fishing for decades, I believe this was due to the thickness and treatment of the wood.

How about the use of poisons for the arrows, One arrow may not be enough to kill your prey but a poison that weakens it to the point of death would be great especially if you have to track it in the snow!

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harpoons are too thick and heavy to fire from a bow, and would lack the accuracy, as arrows have spiralled fletchings that cause the arrow to rotate in flight, the action of which stabilizes the arrow. Harpoons lack this, and would therefore have terrible accuracy. They were actually launched by throwing like a spear, and a strong, accurate individual would be appointed to the station of "harpooner".

Bow limbs need to be warmed prior to firing, in cold conditions, otherwise they lack the tensile spring to fire. It also knackers the bow's internal structure to fire it cold. Metal cannot be used to reinforce a bow, as it has GOT to flex properly to store the energy to fire the arrow.

Additionally, you would never poison your arrows to hunt, as you would be poisoning your meat, rendering it inedible.

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I never suggested firing a Harpoon from a bow.

I trust that you understand what a Harpoon is and how it is/was used by Inuit hunters! Just as a point of note the Inuits actually used bows so I don't see why a bow and arrow can not be used in this game weather contritions should not be a factor here!

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I apologise, the way you worded it sounded like you were suggesting firing a harpoon from the bow.

I'm well aware of the inuit bows, and please do not condescend me, I am familiar with the function and nature of harpoons.

Besides, how would you find an inuit bow in this region?

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I apologise, the way you worded it sounded like you were suggesting firing a harpoon from the bow.

I'm well aware of the inuit bows, and please do not condescend me, I am familiar with the function and nature of harpoons.

Besides, how would you find an inuit bow in this region?

LOL OMG I'm not trying to condescend. Gotta love the internet for the lack of emotion due to everyone's poor Engrish (Including me). :mrgreen:

OK Bows from Inuit tribes use a 'Cable backed' system to reinforced the weakened wood. I would suggest that this is entirely craft-able including Harpoons. The Wooden bow could comprise of appropriately shaped branches or perhaps allow branches/cut wood to be shaped, the cable-backed system could come from the same source as the Inuit's and be made from gut and hide. The bow could even be reinforces with some use of steel wire etc. Arrows would just be normal arrows perhaps scavenged from a Hunters home/hut. There is no reason why the bow couldn't be weather shielded by animal hide either.

Re-usable ammo like Arrows becomes very handy much more useful than a hunting rifle. For the future planned bears then poison tipped harpoons and bows would be a good stand-off against an enraged animal!

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But again, not to be a gate-crasher, you wouldn't poison arrows to hunt. To do so would poison the meat, which would poison you when you ate it.

Poison also takes a long time to work. Especially in larger animals. Even the most potent poison in the world, Botulinum, takes 5-10 minutes to work, depending on the person. And that's just people, let alone a 200kg bear.

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OK Bows from Inuit tribes use a 'Cable backed' system to reinforced the weakened wood. I would suggest that this is entirely craft-able including Harpoons. The Wooden bow could comprise of appropriately shaped branches or perhaps allow branches/cut wood to be shaped, the cable-backed system could come from the same source as the Inuit's and be made from gut and hide. The bow could even be reinforces with some use of steel wire etc. Arrows would just be normal arrows perhaps scavenged from a Hunters home/hut. There is no reason why the bow couldn't be weather shielded by animal hide either.

Firstly, let me say I love the knowledge involved. I enjoy learning new things and my interest is piqued enough that I may have to do some research.

However:

The only way this'd work in game, in my opinion, would be as a trade w/ an NPC Inuit who would have the skill to make such an item.

How do we, average joe bush pilot (right? Or do we not even have that much backstory yet?) know how to make a weapon that takes natives years to learn how to make properly? And which, sad to say, many of the current generation don't even know how to make.

That's the problem I see with it: A skill that an average person wouldn't know how to do.

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But again, not to be a gate-crasher, you wouldn't poison arrows to hunt. To do so would poison the meat, which would poison you when you ate it.

Poison also takes a long time to work. Especially in larger animals. Even the most potent poison in the world, Botulinum, takes 5-10 minutes to work, depending on the person. And that's just people, let alone a 200kg bear.

OK on the poison front I have no input but I wasn't thinking of poisoning to kill but to weaken the animal so it couldn't run for long/far.

OK Bows from Inuit tribes use a 'Cable backed' system to reinforced the weakened wood. I would suggest that this is entirely craft-able including Harpoons. The Wooden bow could comprise of appropriately shaped branches or perhaps allow branches/cut wood to be shaped, the cable-backed system could come from the same source as the Inuit's and be made from gut and hide. The bow could even be reinforces with some use of steel wire etc. Arrows would just be normal arrows perhaps scavenged from a Hunters home/hut. There is no reason why the bow couldn't be weather shielded by animal hide either.

Firstly, let me say I love the knowledge involved. I enjoy learning new things and my interest is piqued enough that I may have to do some research.

However:

The only way this'd work in game, in my opinion, would be as a trade w/ an NPC Inuit who would have the skill to make such an item.

How do we, average joe bush pilot (right? Or do we not even have that much backstory yet?) know how to make a weapon that takes natives years to learn how to make properly? And which, sad to say, many of the current generation don't even know how to make.

That's the problem I see with it: A skill that an average person wouldn't know how to do.

I don't think NPC's would work in this game however finding a instruction book or a workshop with half built kits in might bridge the gap in the Pilots learning. We could put forward that you could be a passenger survivor instead of a pilot survivor and you have more of this type of knowledge but less mechanical knowledge!

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I would suggest that rather than flex bow (a bow that stores energy in it's length), you have a composite bow instead. I have some of my own designs for a mechanical bow lying about somewhere, it would function regardless of the conditions. It'd be heavier than most, but can have equal or greater draw weights with no danger of snapping.

By the by, I also have designs for a semi automatic, magazine fed crossbow, but I'm not sure they'll implement that :)

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I know, I'm talking full engineering specifications, however. I have yet to build a prototype, however, since I haven't found a decent workshop to build it in.

I say semi-automatic, but it's bolt action, so you pull back a slider on the side and it loads a new quarrel in from the magazine at the same time as pulling back the string. The only way you could get it truly semi auto would be if you incorporated a motor or a clockwork spring mechanism.

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Mythbusters did a scaled up version of that concept. They used a top bolt feed and a hand crank on the side that would pull the string back and release. They had a lot of trouble with it failing after the second or third bolt, though. I had the basic idea of what they were doing wrong, but I also do not have a workshop I could tinker with it in....

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My design feeds from underneath. The magazine clips under the running track of the bolt and feeds up via a spring system that pushes the bolt up when the lever is pulled back to reload.

It's similar to the magazine arrangement of a sniper rifle (ammo box slung under the chamber). A gearbox ratios up the movement of the lever to pull back the bowstring using a pair of tines that slide up and down the running track. As a result though, the torque necessary to pull down the lever is formidable.

it... uhhh.... may need some R&D.

when I find a decent sketch of it, (my designs are a bit messy to look at, I may have to draw an overview up) I'll post it on here so you guys can have a look at it and see what I am rabbiting on about.

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I like the idea of adding bows to the game. Finding one in a hunting cabin or coastal house wouldn't be too much of a stretch, and using gut to replace broken strings seems like a cool idea. Not sure about the obsidian part.

I just so happen to be a trained archaeologist specialising in stone technology, and I don't think crafting proper arrow points from lithics is something just anyone can do without training. I don't know if obsidian occurs naturally in NW Canada, but I doubt it, and even if there are potentially useful lithic raw material available, identifying and properly utilising such materials requires some training/experience that is not very common today; you need to know which lithics will give you an ideal fracture pattern, cutting edge, how to pick a hammerstone that won't shatter and cut open your palm, the ideal striking angle... It's not something a random bush pilot would know.

That said, crude metalworking with readily available scrap metal can be turned into crude, yet effective arrowheads with some hammering and bending. I bet you could fashion a mean arrowhead by recycling an empty tin can without any training.

I figure a bow would act like a poor-man's rifle: good for hunting small game, and you can eventually kill a deer with it if you're willing to spend enough arrows and calories chasing it (anyone remember that one part in the Last of Us?). Could also be used to teach curious wolves a lesson or two.

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