Sharpen arrows with knife?

[SticksandBerries]

First of Hinterland you guys are the absolute f*ckin best! I only play other games when I'm taking break from your kick ass sucker punch of a survival game!! Anywho, it would be nice and wicked if you could sharpen the end of an arrow shaft with a stick, for a weaker arrow that is not durable and could only kill bunnies and mayne scare wolves. Also using a lit flare to start a fire would be nice. Keep up the good work guys I'm buying everything you ever puy out no questions asked

[Sharky]

I think it would be nice to have the choice of whether to use weak arrows, or undertake the journey to a forge to get steel-tipped arrows.

43 minutes ago, SticksandBerries said:

 Also using a lit flare to start a fire would be nice.

This is already in the game.

[SticksandBerries]

You shittin me?

[Sharky]

Nope. And what's more, an attempt can succeed even if the flare burns out mid-way through.

[Mroz4k]

3 hours ago, SticksandBerries said:

You shittin me?

Try messing around with it some more - if you didnt know there is this little thing possible, you might find out more fun stuff that is possible with things that are already burning. But maybe you already know those other little things. TLD is very intuitive game, not a perfect replica of real world, of course, but plenty of those things that make sense are in the game.

As for the sharpening suggestion - I gotta dissagree with you both. I get that it make sense, and it would make even more sense to burn those sharpened tips in the fire to make them a real arrowheads, but the reason thats is not possible is that it would make arrows too easy to make. Point is to have to go and forge the arrowheads to force the players to undergo the whole "need to find furnace and hammer, and iron to smelt" - to get more arrows. If there were other ways, arrowheads would be kind of unnecesary, or at the very least optional - because you could always get along with just the sharpened sticks.

[Sharky]

Maybe the sharpened arrow shafts would break after only 1 - 2 uses, so that relying on them uses up birch saplings extremely quickly. This would make them less viable in mid to late-game when resources are scarcer, helping to retain the usefulness of forging arrowheads. 

Another option is making sharpened arrow shafts either never cause bleeding, or never cause any critical hits (apart from on maybe rabbits).

 

[Sunwolf]

I think it's a perfect suggestion, particularly the arrows being limited to take rabbits.

Based on everything I've read since I started playing, some people are able to "get" the stone throwing/rabbit mechanism while some people just can't seem to make it work.  This would provide them an easier, reliable method of taking rabbits with the balance of A) you're burning through arrow shafts you could otherwise hunt bigger game, and B) you're burning through your bow's condition, C) you have to spend time crafting your ammo, and D) because of A-C you wouldn't be able to use this hunting method to establish an immediate foothold survival-wise by acquiring first-day guts.

If nothing else, for the player set for the long-term, this would provide additional motivation to learn how to hunt rabbits with stones, but for those who really don't like the stone mechanism it would provide an alternative.  And more options, provided they're balanced, are always better than fewer.

[SticksandBerries]

@Mroz4k yeah i figured out a few more things thanks to this post lol and i see where youre coming from with the whole forge making the forge optional thing, thats why like @Sunwolf was basically saying, make them very high consequence and low eiffiency. Like to the point to where no one would want to do it unless theyes absolutely had to, so they could at least maybe possibly scare off an angry wolf or kill a bunny ya dig?

[hozz1235]

Sounds like a good WishList item.

[deathbydanish]

On 12/23/2017 at 4:32 AM, Mroz4k said:

Try messing around with it some more - if you didnt know there is this little thing possible, you might find out more fun stuff that is possible with things that are already burning. But maybe you already know those other little things. TLD is very intuitive game, not a perfect replica of real world, of course, but plenty of those things that make sense are in the game.

As for the sharpening suggestion - I gotta dissagree with you both. I get that it make sense, and it would make even more sense to burn those sharpened tips in the fire to make them a real arrowheads, but the reason thats is not possible is that it would make arrows too easy to make. Point is to have to go and forge the arrowheads to force the players to undergo the whole "need to find furnace and hammer, and iron to smelt" - to get more arrows. If there were other ways, arrowheads would be kind of unnecesary, or at the very least optional - because you could always get along with just the sharpened sticks.

In the vein of what some of the others have suggested, maybe make these arrows a one shot then its done affair. Even more so, I'd make them rather ineffective (hence treating them as tools of last resort) being prone to bounce off animals like the bear or moose, i.e. the tough game. For deer I'd make it so that you had be nearly point blank to stick an arrow, and that it would take more than normal to down a deer, again the frustration being added to emphasize it is not to be your first choice.

[Mroz4k]

On 23. 12. 2017 at 1:30 PM, Sunwolf said:

I think it's a perfect suggestion, particularly the arrows being limited to take rabbits.

Based on everything I've read since I started playing, some people are able to "get" the stone throwing/rabbit mechanism while some people just can't seem to make it work.  This would provide them an easier, reliable method of taking rabbits

Do you really think this is how TLD works? What gave you that idea? 

In the spirit of TLD - you either practise stone throwing until you learn how to make it work, or you don't, and you die. There is no middle ground to it. There shouldn't be an easy way to it. Besides, hitting a rabbit with a bow is most definitely not easy, unless you are at the point-blank range, and at that distance, more people would just use the stone regardless, instead of expensive arrows. Unless they are upping their archery skill.

Finally, there is another option when it comes to rabbits. Snaring. If you cant figure out how to catch rabbits with stones, you can always do it with snares.

On 23. 12. 2017 at 12:58 PM, Sharky said:

Maybe the sharpened arrow shafts would break after only 1 - 2 uses, so that relying on them uses up birch saplings extremely quickly. This would make them less viable in mid to late-game when resources are scarcer, helping to retain the usefulness of forging arrowheads. 

Another option is making sharpened arrow shafts either never cause bleeding, or never cause any critical hits (apart from on maybe rabbits).

The other option is just not a good enough, the bow doesn't rely on critical hits, and it if didn't cause bleeding at all, it would be virtually useless as you would have to stick over ten arrows into something just to kill it by depleting its condition. And if it caused slower bleeding, its still a 1 shot, but much slower.

Cool thinking with the non-sticking part, but that wouldn't really help that much, either. The main issue here with the arrows is the fact that you need to find some rare tools and travel down the path to make them. Or, find broken arrows and salvage them for their arrowheads. These few arrows are to help you get your bow action ready until you craft more arrowheads later. And if we are discussing Interloper - the point of that mode is to be difficult. There shouldn't be any "last resorts" available - you simply have to survive for long enough to make those arrowheads. Point blank is how most people hunt deer with bow anyways, so this wouldn't really help the situation either.

If there was access to flint tools, and flint knapped arrowheads, there would be a possibility of making the arrows more primitively. But there isn't - for that very reason. There are no flint tools in the game because it would render the metal tools irrelevant. Because for as long as the flint tools served as regular tools, only slower and heavier, it would be the more convenient option to the forging, which has the element of the risky journey to the forge.

[stratvox]

7 hours ago, Mroz4k said:

If there was access to flint tools, and flint knapped arrowheads, there would be a possibility of making the arrows more primitively. But there isn't - for that very reason. There are no flint tools in the game because it would render the metal tools irrelevant. Because for as long as the flint tools served as regular tools, only slower and heavier, it would be the more convenient option to the forging, which has the element of the risky journey to the forge.

Actually, there's an easy way to fix that. Flint isn't available everywhere; when you look at places where it was found you find extensive works by paleolithic peoples to get it. So... have one place across the entire world where you can find flint, and put it somewhere very hazardous to get to. After you get flint, you can book out and do your knapping elsewhere... but make getting there hard and dangerous. Also, when you knap flint tools, you're basically throwing away minimum 80% of the flint piece you start with, so... you have to pick up pieces of flint, where you'll need a 7kg piece to make a hatchet head, a 5kg piece to make a dagger, and a 1kg piece to make an arrowhead. This'll mean that on your way out if you're not knapping on site, you're looking at minimum 20kg of mass to carry out. Make the region extremely hostile temperature wise, with low possibilities for gathering food, maybe a cave for shelter, so that extensive planning and resources will be required to get and stay there if you want to knap there... and if you're carrying raw flint out you can write off the ability to sprint away from hostile wildlife because you'll be travelling heavy.

Doing some research about where one "finds" flint, and given BC's geology, you're looking at a very rare item. I'd think that an exit off Broken Railroad (perhaps by up along that tiny bridge after you scale up on that plateau, or perhaps down along that river ravine that runs along the west side of the map) to a new region that is down by the coast and leads to say a pebble beach with pieces of flint would be a possibility. It'd be a steep steep descent down to it, and a steep ascent back up to the rest of the maps... ropes would make carrying flint out laborious and could be a good limiter on how much you can pull out at any one time. Since it's the west side of Great Bear, you'd be bearing the full brunt of the Pacific winter weather there... a new mechanic where one must brave large waves coterminous with whiteout conditions that leave you at great risk of hypothermia if you time it wrong to collect the flint would be suitably hazardous for collection, esp. given a dearth of fuel and shelter options (maybe a cave halfway up the ascent back up to BR would be the only shelter of any kind available).

In order to maintain balance, a region to collect flint should most definitely be significantly more hazardous to your character's ongoing health and welfare than a trip to DP or FM to use the forges. There is a big big advantage to flint tools over metal ones... they don't dull easily. So, they should be significantly heavier than their forged counterparts, but pay a much lower cost in condition for use. I'd suggest that the biggest risk for eg a flint knife would be during a wolf struggle... a chance for it to chip on hitting bone while fighting a wolf would be a good way to handle a penalty. A flint hatchet could have its condition be tied up in its handle. One thing which has mystified me... we have cedar and fir limbs, but no maple limbs despite the presence of maple trees. Require a maple log to make a handle that must be whittled by a knife and requires gut to fasten, say. Using a metal knife to whittle should cost it a lot of condition (which makes a lot of sense when you think about it).

I think flint tools could be made to fit the game, but it would require some real thought about how best to manage the mechanic so that people can't do it too early without seriously risking death via hypothermia or misadventure (e.g. you need wicked clothing and a lot of good travelling food to have any chance of making it at all without fading into the long dark).