Clothing Condition

[Claysmiff1702]

Greetings All, 

Just brainstorming, but I think it'd be cool to see the maximum condition of clothing deteriorate over time, or after each repair. As in after a while, you can repair your wolf skin coat to a maximum of 90%, then only 80%, etc. etc. until eventually it makes more sense to just harvest the clothing item for materials to craft new ones. You can only keep tacking on pieces of cloth to that tattered old thing for so long

[Patrick Carlson]

Just now, Claysmiff1702 said:

Greetings All, 

Just brainstorming, but I think it'd be cool to see the maximum condition of clothing deteriorate over time, or after each repair. As in after a while, you can repair your wolf skin coat to a maximum of 90%, then only 80%, etc. etc. until eventually it makes more sense to just harvest the clothing item for materials to craft new ones. You can only keep tacking on pieces of cloth to that tattered old thing for so long

It would definitely add a desperate twist to clothing repair. With this kind of tweak, would imagine any other changes to sewing kits, or the repair skill for the sake of balance? Just speculating here. And welcome to the forums by the way! 

[Claysmiff1702]

3 minutes ago, Patrick Carlson said:

It would definitely add a desperate twist to clothing repair. With this kind of tweak, would imagine any other changes to sewing kits, or the repair skill for the sake of balance? Just speculating here. And welcome to the forums by the way! 

Thanks Patrick! Glad to be here, you guys rock.

Well I'm not sure what the differences are currently between repairing clothes with sewing kits or with fishing tackle, but fishing tackle are essentially limitless. Sewing kits could be more of a luxury or emergency resource, repairing clothes quicker and to a higher condition (or past their "maximum condition") and could be used more effectively on the fly, say after an animal attack to repair torn clothing. The improvised needle and thread would be more of an everyday, renewable resource with limited results. The system is fine as it is, and I love the game. Just brainstorming

[cekivi]

Interesting idea. How about grades of clothing instead? Sort of broad chunks of condition (e.g. 50% to 75%). Once an item decays into the next lower grade it can only be repaired to that grade's maximum level.

[Claysmiff1702]

I like it! It could work with tools as well. For example the hatchet could be repaired to its maximum condition with cedar or scrap metal (I envision using scrap metal to repair a hatchet as driving in a new wedge when the handle becomes loose , this would require a simple tool kit), and past its maximum condition with the whetstone.

[Axtos]

The idea is good and realistic too. +1

My problem with clothes are also why are Self-made clothes better than the best "old world" stuff? Because I'm not an tailor and my wolfskin jacket are much better than a thermo coat?

[nicko]

3 hours ago, Axtos said:

The idea is good and realistic too. +1

My problem with clothes are also why are Self-made clothes better than the best "old world" stuff? Because I'm not an tailor and my wolfskin jacket are much better than a thermo coat?

Skins hide and furs have been around thousands of years so have proven they work.

Man made artificial clothing have only been around several decades, sure some might be warm and maybe lighter to wear etc but mabye also highly flammable, make you sweat more etc. I would rather wear any natural clothing / fiber if I had the choice.

[Boston123]

2 hours ago, nicko said:

Skins hide and furs have been around thousands of years so have proven they work.

Man made artificial clothing have only been around several decades, sure some might be warm and maybe lighter to wear etc but mabye also highly flammable, make you sweat more etc. I would rather wear any natural clothing / fiber if I had the choice.

Uh..... what?

With very few exceptions, modern synthetic fibers are just as "good" if not better, than natural fibers. 

Realistically, that wolfskin coat will not be more effective than the literal Space-Age polar fleece insulated coat, for many reasons;

1) ALL of the hide-based clothing we make in-game is not leather. It is literally just rawhide. While rawhide is tough, and capable of heavy wear, it is not good clothing material. If it gets wet, it will turn back into "regular" hide, and start to stink and rot. Not to mention get slippery and slimy.

2) Hide and fur-based clothing gets its warmth from having the fur on the inside face of the clothing. All of the crafted articles of clothing have the fur on the outside face. While this means it would be better at shedding water and snow, it also means it has much less insulation value.

Clothing insulates you by trapping body heat in between the fibers of the clothing, effectively a vacuum barrier between your body and the outside air. Wool is good for this because it insulates you even when it is wet; that is, even when the spaces between the wool threads are full of water, the cloth retains its insulative value. Cotton lacks this quality. Fur, when worn hair-side in, is good at this. If you wear fur hair-side out, mostly lacks this ability, as you have a layer of skin in between your skin and the hair. 

3) Furs are heavy as all hell, which is directly tied to overheating. The harder you work, the more likely you are to sweat. If your clothing is heavy, you are going to work harder to carry it, and probably sweat more. Plus, with fur clothing, you are unlikely to have multiple layers on, which makes controlling overheating by removing layers more difficult.

With wool and synthetic fabrics, I can wear three layers for every one layer I could of fur and hide. I can also move around in them and take them off much more easily, as they lighter and thinner.

[Claysmiff1702]

You're right.. Again  However I feel like the "endgame" clothing as animal hides meshes well with the game, even if it's not realistic. I work outside year round in one of the coldest places in the U.S. so I definitely know what you mean by insulating air layers.

[cekivi]

@Boston123 Eh, it's a work in progress. The main problem with the man made clothing is that it's not a durable. Now, that doesn't mean break on a weekend but a leather jacket can take much more abuse than a nylon one. But, like you said, we're not actually crafting with leather.

I just chalk it up to needing to keep the game interesting long term and realism doesn't really help here.

[nicko]

Well I'm no expert but I'm sure a lot of natives up in cold regions still wear boots/gloves/head gear etc made of Hides and fur. sure maybe the cure them different etc. but this is the idea of the game as I see it. I guess it would come down to actually testing different clothing items.

either way I think its more about the game player experience of harvesting wildlife and creating useful clothing with the tools / resources at hand,  which seems to be working great atm. Would love more crafting options for rabbits felts though. Already mentioned a fur hat

BTW Wool is one of one favourite natural fibres. Pity there are no sheep around!

[cekivi]

10 hours ago, nicko said:

BTW Wool is one of one favourite natural fibres. Pity there are no sheep around!

Yep. Wool's awesome. Even soaking wet it will still keep you quite warm. I'd actually rather have an NPC shepherd we could trade wool with than having a horse

[TLD Survivalist]

Were getting a horse?

[cekivi]

Possibly. It's one of the roadmap items. However, that doesn't mean horses will actually be in the game.

[TLD Survivalist]

Yeahh true true... I never looked that far ahead on the roadmap.... Im just too excited for what these guys are doing and what were in store for... Ive only been part of this community for a couple weeks now and Ive just fallen in love with it all... The game the atmosphere overall.... Then the Devs and Community on the forums.. Its just really refreshing... Keep up the great work Hinterland

[nicko]

5 hours ago, TLD Survivalist said:

Were getting a horse?

lol, yeah I thought same wtf not quiet the sort of animal I would of thought to have in the cold / snow long dark. Maybe its for future season when or if its gets warmer.

Maybe a few dogs to pull a sled would suit this game more.

[BAC]

On ‎6‎/‎3‎/‎2016 at 3:37 PM, Claysmiff1702 said:

Greetings All, 

Just brainstorming, but I think it'd be cool to see the maximum condition of clothing deteriorate over time, or after each repair. As in after a while, you can repair your wolf skin coat to a maximum of 90%, then only 80%, etc. etc. until eventually it makes more sense to just harvest the clothing item for materials to craft new ones. You can only keep tacking on pieces of cloth to that tattered old thing for so long

Greetings,

I totally agree with the quote above.

Also, I'm sure this has been beaten to death at one point or another, but cannot help to make a suggestion again regarding deterioration. I find the deterioration model so unrealistic it just keeps nagging at me.

I have worked all kinds of jobs through my career as well as all kinds of outdoor activity. In my current job, I probably get by wearing a good pair of wool slacks for 4 to 5 years. Wear mainly being from the washing machine. When I worked at a lumber sawmill in my youth, I could go through a pair of jeans in a month. Harvesting firewood even goes faster as I always manage to get a tear it seems.

Thereby, I'm trying to say that I feel clothing wear should be based on activity.  The computations would be fairly simple, maybe even more so than basing it on weather conditions. Just getting clothes wet or being in wind does not in my experience drastically increase wear. Here are my thoughts. I like the idea of a base durability rating and using multipliers.

Shirts, coats, gloves and pants  - deterioration based on the current activity and time spent doing it. Every time you harvest wood, perform crafting, or harvest an animal corpse, just add a deterioration base and multiplier depending on the task to the time  spent doing the task. From experience, when you do hard manual labor, no matter how careful you want to be, there are times where something will snag or tear or you will invariably help ease the task by lifting or pushing using your thighs putting wear on pants and upper body clothing.

shoes and socks - simple deterioration based on mileage and load carried. From hiking and what I have read for long distance hiking such as the Appalachian trail. A good pair of boots carrying a pack should be good for a couple of months or so. Cheap boots or sneakers could easily match a high deterioration rate. Use a base durability rating based on type and quality of items with a multiplier for load carried causing deterioration per mileage used.

Hats - flat rate over time, can't think of much that increases it except a good ole mauling ( I'd like to see a rabbit fur hat )

I understand the modeling is to promote repairs, but tied in with the above quoted suggestion and the perspective I'm adding it would appear to be more realistic

My perspective using this model would be  - greater risk taking. I would be much more likely to don my coveted fur garments and wander on longer expeditions taking greater chances in adverse weather if I know my clothes aren't just going to literally blow away in the wind. I would welcome the survival aspect getting caught out in a blizzard, but harvesting the materials is much harder than just hiding out from the wind and weather model. Conservation - I would be much more inclined to hoard lesser items and actually switch out my daily wearables when I know I'm heading out just to harvest wood, or perform crafting and heavier tasks. Less security  for weather events, but worth the conservation effort to protect valuable furs.

That's all I have. I'm still loving TLD, but this one just keeps poking the back of my mind.

Thanks