Gunpowder! Making it the old way, with a manure

[Boston123]

5 hours ago, vancopower said:

Well it is in the road map, unless they change their minds we can try to help by submitting ideas right ?  Even if they implement this method as it is  with no primers with no fancy science process it would still be the most realistic process of making gunpowder compared to all the other survival games, where you just mix sulfur and coal and not even in the correct amount and you got gunpowder. However even if we can't make Shells, bullets and other type modern ammo the idea about raiding a museum and finding civil war muskets is still plausible we can use black powder on these. 

If they don't implement primers, it would be something that completely eliminates my respect for Hinterland. Again: without a primer, any cartridge-based firearm WILL NOT WORK. 

You can't recover the primer from a fired cartridge/shotgun shell, as the primer has to explode to ignite the powder. All you can do is change it out for a fresh one. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cartridge_(firearms)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primer_(firearm)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handloading

Yes, you can use blackpowder in Civil War (I am assuming you are referring to US Civil War) era muskets...

but if you don't have percussion caps, you won't be able to shoot it. Percussion caps require mercury, and you don't want to fool around with that if you don't have to.

There is a reason, after all, why "serious" preppers and survivalists make their own bows and crossbows, and use flintlock muskets/rifles at the highest "tech level". The "farther back" you go, the simpler things become, logistics-wise.

Modern firearms: require advanced chemistry and international trade

Caplock firearms: advanced metallurgy, chemistry

FLintlock firearms: advanced metallurgy, some basic chemistry

Metal weapons and projectile points: some basic metallurgy

[cekivi]

All good points but try to be friendly. Since black powder doesn't work with post ~1900's tech, is there anything in the game that you could see requiring homemade gunpowder for? Maybe removing a beaver dam or opening a locked door? Of course, for those to work you'd still need commercial fuses or blasting caps though I don't know if I'd be willing to Wile E Coyote my way through the Long Dark...

[Wastelander]

I think at this point of the discussion, it's one of the following:

• Add commercial gunpowder, reusing shells, finding primers and somehow making projectiles into bullets or
• Crude, craftable gunpowdter weapons

To be quite honest, after all I have read (and I must say thank you all, because I actually learned a lot!) I'm with the former.

[vancopower]

22 hours ago, Boston123 said:

If they don't implement primers, it would be something that completely eliminates my respect for Hinterland. Again: without a primer, any cartridge-based firearm WILL NOT WORK. 

You can't recover the primer from a fired cartridge/shotgun shell, as the primer has to explode to ignite the powder. All you can do is change it out for a fresh one. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cartridge_(firearms)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primer_(firearm)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handloading

Yes, you can use blackpowder in Civil War (I am assuming you are referring to US Civil War) era muskets...

but if you don't have percussion caps, you won't be able to shoot it. Percussion caps require mercury, and you don't want to fool around with that if you don't have to.

There is a reason, after all, why "serious" preppers and survivalists make their own bows and crossbows, and use flintlock muskets/rifles at the highest "tech level". The "farther back" you go, the simpler things become, logistics-wise.

Modern firearms: require advanced chemistry and international trade

Caplock firearms: advanced metallurgy, chemistry

FLintlock firearms: advanced metallurgy, some basic chemistry

Metal weapons and projectile points: some basic metallurgy

I think you are underestimating human creativity, if everything you say is true than how do you explain this Cambodian guy who made a gun out of common things. I'm sure that he is not a chemist or has some kind of college degree but still he makes guns like this, and pay attention on what he uses as "primer" it is nothing fancy, just take a look at this:

 

[cekivi]

Well, what he made is basically a percussion cap firearm. You still need to be able to find percussion caps for it to work. The other difficulty is the game. The presenter in the video said the slug was roughly .410 in size. While you can shoot a Canadian deer at point blank range with that and maybe get a kill shot the majority of the time they'll be much farther than that water bottle.

Again, it's not impossible but still very, very unlikely to make a homemade black powder muzzle loader. Even in the video they appear to be using commercial gunpowder. Especially since you'd be trying to make a gun using only scrap, hand tools and a forge....

[vancopower]

7 minutes ago, cekivi said:

Well, what he made is basically a percussion cap firearm. You still need to be able to find percussion caps for it to work. The other difficulty is the game. The presenter in the video said the slug was roughly .410 in size. While you can shoot a Canadian deer at point blank range with that and maybe get a kill shot the majority of the time they'll be much farther than that water bottle.

Again, it's not impossible but still very, very unlikely to make a homemade black powder muzzle loader. Even in the video they appear to be using commercial gunpowder. Especially since you'd be trying to make a gun using only scrap, hand tools and a forge....

Well it is not easy I'm sure but when you, have to in order to survive and you have all the time in the world to do it I think it can be done. Also I recommend watching part 2 of that video, in which they show air gun made out of bicycle pump maybe not that potent but useful. Also this is but one example I'm sure there are tons and tons of videos of people making guns in similar ways, but we can't post them all here. Anyway what my point is that, with time anything is possible you can't make gunpowder and ammo in a day or a month but with time you get better and better at it and at some point you will surprise even yourself. However if you don't even try it you will definitely not make it, that is true not only for gunpowder but anything else in life right?    

[cekivi]

Yes. That is true. But with a small development team I'd rather they focus on making the canoe and seasons awesome as opposed to making a gun crafting puzzle. The homemade gunpowder and firearms is not a bad idea but it's not what I or several other commenters are looking for in the Long Dark. Personally, I'd rather see it as a mod than a specific development goal.

[Scyzara]

I really don't believe we need another ranged weapon besides hunting rifle, bow and (the already announced) revolver. There's enough ammunition (rifle rounds+birch saplings) to survive for at least 1000 days by hunting alone anway. Add snaring and fishing and you'll easily be fine for 5000days+.

At some point, further lifetime extensions (or tools/weapons that have the aim to simplify infinite survival) just become completely pointless in my opinion because only one in a million players is ever really going to invest the thousands of rl hours within the very same run. (I can tell by experience that playing a 780d run in an active way takes about 250 rl hours. Just imagine how long it would take to actually play 5000 days instead.)

I for one would like it way better if the Devs focussed on the development of their current roadmap features (e.g. new animals, NPCs, & seasons) and on some balancing tweaks than on the addition of all kinds of more or less primitive weapons and tools that aren't needed for "short term" (= less than 1000 days) survival at all anyway.

[SteelFire]

Homemade, non-rifled, muzzle loading, black powder rifle made out of scrap bits. I'd rather have the simple short bow we have in the game. It's more accurate, more deadly, and far more efficient on resources... and without the risk of blowing oneself up.

[SteveP]

It might be more realistic to have an improvised weapon with an alternative propellant such as alcohol. Think bottle rocket. You could use it to launch high speed, steel or wood projectiles.

For hand reloading, you need the proper gun powder, bullets, cases, suitable dies, a reloading press, primers, micrometer gauge, case trim tool (ideally) as well as a reference manual for the appropriate powder charge to use for any given bullet weight. In terms of complexity, it is probably easier than mastering flint knapping yet requires more tools and materials.

Another alternative fuel propellant would be potassium nitrate and sugar. This is suitable for the type of weapon known as a zip gun. Some zip guns using nothing more than latex rubber hoses. A cross bow is another improvised weapon that is safer and easier to make than a home made gun.