Scaring Wolves

[Pillock]

What I'm going to describe could be considered an AI exploit, which is why I've hidden the main part of this post. There's a way to deal with wolf encounters that is very easy and reliable, and is starting to detract from my enjoyment of the game because it makes wolves less of a threat and so reduces the tension of the gameplay. If you haven't figured out or heard of such a method already, you might not want to read this. (Unless you actually want your game to suddenly feel much easier...)

Since the changes in wolf AI brought on by The Tireless Menace Update, it is now possible to scare wolves away with 100% reliability, simply by lighting a campfire. You only need 2 or 3 sticks, some tinder and a match, so it also very resource-cheap, and they take fright and run even if they get within striking distance while your fire is still in the process of starting. You can even exploit this further by deliberately delaying your fire-starting until the wolf gets close to you, so that it's less likely to finish the progress bar before the wolf decides to run, which will allow you to then cancel the fire and so save fuel.

I have a few ideas about how some changes could work:

- Fires should still deter wolves, but maybe not 100% of the time. There perhaps could be a chance that a fire would sometimes not be enough, and you'd have to combine it with waving a brand, torch or flare in order to be really confident. This could be read/predicted by the player by observing the wolf's approach and how long it takes for its nerve to break and for it to run away - the longer the wolf tolerated the fire and continued its approach, the less likely it would be to eventually run away, and the more likely it would be to decide to attack. Therefore you'd have to make a decision about whether or not to use additional deterrents, or try run away yourself.

- Wolves should ignore the fire while it is still in the process of being started. In order to make this work, I think we would need two further changes:

1. to be able to rotate our point of view during the fire-starting process so that we would be able to watch the wolf approaching, and decide if we have enough time to finish lighting the fire or not (currently the field of view is fixed, and wolves sometimes approach from your side, where you can't see them).
2. the ability to add accelerant while the fire-starting bar is in progress, in order to speed it up and guarantee successful ignition if the wolf gets too near for your liking. This would give more value to accelerant as an in-game item (I currently find that I barely ever need to use them); it would also add a small extra dimension to the whole process and make it more nerve-jangling for the player.

I'd be interested to know what other people think about this, and whether anyone has more ideas to add.

 

[Scyzara]

Thank you for your feedback and especially for using a spoiler tag!

I completely agree that the current system - albeit it's already a great improvement compared to the previous system imo - still needs further tweaking. And I very much support your suggestions (especially the second one) to address the problem.

Spoiler

I think using a fire to scare away wolves (e.g. from a deer carcass) should remain possible in principle, but with certain limitations. One should obviosly be that the fire has to come at a certain cost which should of course be higher than just 2-3 sticks. Maybe a minimum fire duration of 3 hours (=3 pieces of cedar firewood aka some hatchet wear and calories spent) should be required as well.

Apart from that, I support the idea to make wolves only afraid of already burning fires in order to give accelerant and kerosene more use as a means of self-defense. 

[Pillock]

2 hours ago, Scyzara said:

Thank you for your feedback and especially for using a spoiler tag!

I completely agree that the current system - albeit it's already a great improvement compared to the previous system imo - still needs further tweaking. And I very much support your suggestions (especially the second one) to address the problem.

Hidden Content

Cheers!

 

Spoiler

I think 'fire+brand' or 'fire+torch/flare' should be stronger than 'just fire' or 'just brand/torch/flare'. Fire/torch/brand/flare alone have their own relative strengths and should sometimes be enough on their own, though. The fact that wolves have varying, unpredictable levels of aggression and fear-threshold is a GREAT feature - it stops players getting into routines to game the AI. Allowing us to combine wolf deterrents to make the chances of success stronger would play into this really well, I think.

Baiting is another option, but it's a different type of wolf reaction. But in a similar way, if the wolf is on to you because you're carrying meat, giving him that meat might make him lose interest in you - or it might not. Giving him even more meat might increase your chances, or it might encourage him - then you'd have to resort to other methods.

I think there should never be a 100% guaranteed successful method: you should always have the possibility - even if it's small - that you'll need to run away from, shoot or fight the wolf in the end. That unpredictability is what gives the game tension, and makes it exciting and fun. Having sure-fire methods turns dealing with predators into nuisance chores instead of dangerous threats, and reduces that tension and fun.

 

 

[Drifter Man]

I haven't used this technique yet but perhaps I can chip in, too.

The likelihood that the wolf will be deterred can depend on the heat output or on the time still left in the fire. The basic idea is that wildlife stays clear of proper campfires, not of a few sticks tossed together.

Alternative wolf behavior to running away: The wolf would stay at a safe distance from the fire. Not stationary and far enough not to become an easy meat, although good marksmen could still score a kill. It could lose interest and walk away, or persist.

[hauteecolerider]

8 hours ago, Drifter Man said:

I haven't used this technique yet but perhaps I can chip in, too.

 

Hidden Content

 

I rather like this idea . . . 

[Aelaera]

16 hours ago, Drifter Man said:

I haven't used this technique yet but perhaps I can chip in, too.

 

Hidden Content

 

+1 here. 

[Gleudal]

I didnt realise this tactic, but in Challange mode I noticed, that the old bear was scared away by my campfire (and I was really lucky, because I was in a 12h blizzard and it was the last 30 min of my wood, that I burned in that cave.)

So +1 for the Idea

On 1.5.2016 at 0:17 PM, Scyzara said:

I think using a fire to scare away wolves (e.g. from a deer carcass) should remain possible in principle, but with certain limitations. One should obviosly be that the fire has to come at a certain cost which should of course be higher than just 2-3 sticks. Maybe a minimum fire duration of 3 hours (=3 pieces of cedar firewood aka some hatchet wear and calories spent) should be required as well.

I think a minimum fire duration of 3h is far too much or at least it would change the gameplay dramatically. E.g I often start a short 30 min fire, for gettting some clean water. With a minimum 3h duration, I would need to start fewer fires and not always have a small emergency reserve of fuel for that or always carry several liters of water instead. Both means, that I can carry less, because I need more for water or fuel.

I think also the approach of attacking wolfes needs to be changed, becourse at the moment its way to easy to just shoot them the second before they jump on you. I only let them catch me, if I think, its not worth the bullet.

[Pillock]

6 hours ago, Gleudal said:

I didnt realise this tactic, but in Challange mode I noticed, that the old bear was scared away by my campfire (and I was really lucky, because I was in a 12h blizzard and it was the last 30 min of my wood, that I burned in that cave.)

So +1 for the Idea

I think a minimum fire duration of 3h is far too much or at least it would change the gameplay dramatically. E.g I often start a short 30 min fire, for gettting some clean water. With a minimum 3h duration, I would need to start fewer fires and not always have a small emergency reserve of fuel for that or always carry several liters of water instead. Both means, that I can carry less, because I need more for water or fuel.

I think also the approach of attacking wolfes needs to be changed, becourse at the moment its way to easy to just shoot them the second before they jump on you. I only let them catch me, if I think, its not worth the bullet.

The idea is that a longer, hotter, larger fire would act as more of an effective wolf deterrent than a measly 2-stick flame that you've only just got going. The effect on how much water you boil doesn't come into it, really - not for the purposes of scaring wolves, anyway.

Having said that, I do think hotter fires should probably be able to melt snow and boil water more quickly than cooler ones. This was especially glaring for me once when I was using the forge: I'd got it up to 200°C, and it still took hours to turn snow into a few litres of potable water - it felt like it should have vaporised it in a matter of seconds at that temperature!

Also, you say that you find it too easy to shoot wolves as they are about to jump on you - this is down to your skill! I, on the other hand, am crap doing this and usually miss the shot and get savaged!