NPC Trading System (Furs for Supplies)

[Diamondz]

I know I have already talked about this topic with Raphael, but wouldn't it be interesting to have a trading system based on the use of furs as currency for things that do not re-spawn (such as peanut butter or kerosene.) Any thoughts?

[Excorpion]

Yay! more saplings !!! XD

[Dirmagnos]

Why would other survivors trade player premium resources for things that are literally everywhere ?

[Diamondz]

8 hours ago, Dirmagnos said:

Why would other survivors trade player premium resources for things that are literally everywhere ?

Because once those supplies run out, they don't re-spawn. It's just like when we loot every possible place on the map, it eventually becomes used. That is why you should have the opportunity to trade for items that you want but don't have because of looting the map clean of resources (such as kerosene). I thank you for asking that question.

[Excorpion]

22 minutes ago, Diamondz said:

Because once those supplies run out, they don't re-spawn. It's just like when we loot every possible place on the map, it eventually becomes used. That is why you should have the opportunity to trade for items that you want but don't have because of looting the map clean of resources (such as kerosene). I thank you for asking that question.

But they said that in the next episodes, they are going to add "Full season survival Sandbox"... im not pretty sure what about they are talking, but maybe its that.... respawn of some stuff... 

[Diamondz]

44 minutes ago, Excorpion said:

But they said that in the next episodes, they are going to add "Full season survival Sandbox"... im not pretty sure what about they are talking, but maybe its that.... respawn of some stuff...

Ok, I was just thinking since if there were interactive NPCs maybe trading in the game would be a realistic thing to do since you need to rely on one another for survival and well being.

[Excorpion]

Depends... for now, we dont need more ways to get stuff... i mean, i can keep surviving.. and a lot of guys said thatjust reaching 2K+ days, just there, they need some stuff.. like firestarters or others things

[Dirmagnos]

Im all for possibility of infinite survival. But i think it should be made naturally, like living off the land and making tools from what can be found in the wild. Instead of artificial prolongation by means of npc traders that magically manifest various rare items out of thin air or loot respawn mechanics.

[vancopower]

19 hours ago, Dirmagnos said:

Im all for possibility of infinite survival. But i think it should be made naturally, like living off the land and making tools from what can be found in the wild. Instead of artificial prolongation by means of npc traders that magically manifest various rare items out of thin air or loot respawn mechanics.

They could be passing by and collected stuff from other areas, and they desperately need furs or crafted clothes to survive I mean what would you do if you walked for miles and miles and someone offered you a warm coat for your matches or flares and you have plenty of those wouldn't you trade to get yourself warm?  All that said the mechanic still has to be rare we should meet new survivors on a good weather and if you travel a lot, not as soon as you exit your shelter for example. Is this natural enough for you?

[Dirmagnos]

12 hours ago, vancopower said:

They could be passing by and collected stuff from other areas, and they desperately need furs or crafted clothes to survive I mean what would you do if you walked for miles and miles and someone offered you a warm coat for your matches or flares and you have plenty of those wouldn't you trade to get yourself warm?  All that said the mechanic still has to be rare we should meet new survivors on a good weather and if you travel a lot, not as soon as you exit your shelter for example. Is this natural enough for you?

Ive thought about it. But really, when you go on a long hike or moving, do you take with you only the essentials or do you leave your rifle at home, and instead bring with you a dozen of hides ? And would you go out naked, if you can help it, and take 5 hatchets with you ? Even if npc needs clothes, would you be carrying an extra wolf coat with you at all times ?

I dont think that there should be no rare items of npcs that pass thru area(as long as that is exactly that, they move from one point of the map to another at certain pace, preferably uneven, maybe stay overnight in some building if conditions are right) and then they are gone. But i think that their selection and requirements(if they will agree to trade at all, if they wont shoot you first that is) should be more realistic, quite similar to player - ammo, food, tools, etc with occasional rare item for trade, at extremely high rate to offer, something that they picked up along the road, just in case.

So that player would have a make a choice, even if npc is neutral, how to act - do you let him give you finger, or maybe trade something at extortionate rate, or simply shoot him and get all those amazing goodies for free(even those that he would not be willing to trade) ? Temptation is a powerful motive.

Also keep in mind, that those matches or flare are yours, you know what they can do. But if that "nice" coat turns out to have a huge hole that was covered by some rudimentary stitching, or have lice, or is generally barely kept together by some prayer and a bit of duct tape ? Besides, what good is the coat if you will freeze to death in the evening since you have no matches ? Or cant get firewood, since you traded away your knife or hatchet ? Or the next wolf attack will be the you last, since you no longer have any meds left to treat those injuries ?

[hauteecolerider]

@Dirmagnos These are all valid points regarding the presence of traders in this game. I don't think they would add anything the way the current Sandbox is set up. There are no rare items that can't be picked up somewhere, and at the moment the typical "valuable" items (jewelry, currency, credit cards, electronics, etc) have no value in this context. So there really is nothing to trade. 

That said, there's no reason why traders won't work if the devs decide to integrate it into Story Mode. Because we'll be interacting with others, trading will come into play since it comes out of cooperation between strangers. And it doesn't need to be items to trade, either. It can be skills, or knowledge. Say there is someone using the forge in the Riken when you get there, and you notice that she is working some magic (not literally, but in terms of skill) with scrap metal and creating more than just arrowheads and knives. What if she is creating a new kind of knife that is hard, durable and holds an edge better than anything you can make? Or she is able to cast a new bolt action for that old .303 you're toting around?

Or you encounter someone in Mystery Lake who is working the wood and can replace the stock on said .303. You don't know how to whittle, let alone process the wood that's laying around. But you can trade something for that service, that knowledge. So what can you trade? What would be valuable to the other person? Maybe you can hunt up some venison or wolf steaks so he can make that stock for your .303. Or you can cure up some rabbit hides and replace his worn-out mittens?

All these crafting ideas take time. That is how communities form. In order to create something less rudimentary, a person has to give up time otherwise used in surviving practices. Hunting, foraging, etc. has to be done by someone else. If I wanted this skilled woodcarver to replace the cracked stock on my Lee Enfield, I would be totally happy hunting up meat, firewood and hides while he is working on my commission. And I would be more than happy to replace those mitts with new rabbit-skin mitts to keep his hands warm!

[Diamondz]

39 minutes ago, hauteecolerider said:

@Dirmagnos These are all valid points regarding the presence of traders in this game. I don't think they would add anything the way the current Sandbox is set up. There are no rare items that can't be picked up somewhere, and at the moment the typical "valuable" items (jewelry, currency, credit cards, electronics, etc) have no value in this context. So there really is nothing to trade.

That said, there's no reason why traders won't work if the devs decide to integrate it into Story Mode. Because we'll be interacting with others, trading will come into play since it comes out of cooperation between strangers. And it doesn't need to be items to trade, either. It can be skills, or knowledge. Say there is someone using the forge in the Riken when you get there, and you notice that she is working some magic (not literally, but in terms of skill) with scrap metal and creating more than just arrowheads and knives. What if she is creating a new kind of knife that is hard, durable and holds an edge better than anything you can make? Or she is able to cast a new bolt action for that old .303 you're toting around?

Or you encounter someone in Mystery Lake who is working the wood and can replace the stock on said .303. You don't know how to whittle, let alone process the wood that's laying around. But you can trade something for that service, that knowledge. So what can you trade? What would be valuable to the other person? Maybe you can hunt up some venison or wolf steaks so he can make that stock for your .303. Or you can cure up some rabbit hides and replace his worn-out mittens?

All these crafting ideas take time. That is how communities form. In order to create something less rudimentary, a person has to give up time otherwise used in surviving practices. Hunting, foraging, etc. has to be done by someone else. If I wanted this skilled woodcarver to replace the cracked stock on my Lee Enfield, I would be totally happy hunting up meat, firewood and hides while he is working on my commission. And I would be more than happy to replace those mitts with new rabbit-skin mitts to keep his hands warm!

Excellent perspective with regards to trade! @hauteecolerider

[Rusty_Old_F250]

I like the idea of trading for services, etc etc. My background is in auto repair and welding/fabrication, so things like woodworking, hide tanning and sewing, etc are things I have very little experience with, and I would gladly trade some of my services for. And before anyone says anything about us not having cars, skills learned in auto repair translate easily into plenty of things, small engine repair, hydraulics, wiring and general repair on just about anything, like a radio, or a lantern or even minor repairs on a rifle. Cars are rocket science compared to most of that kind of stuff.

And welding/fabrication has infinite uses, need a set of hinges and a bar/bolt to keep the riff raff out of your cabin? I can help with that. (and there are ways to weld without electricity) Need a finely carved and fitted rifle stock? I'm not your guy.

But I could see NPC's trading "rare" supplies to us for various other objects, lets say, for example, they have a 55 gallon drum of kerosene. They are never going to burn up that much, so I'm sure they would gladly trade for other things they could use.

And not everyone wants to go risk their neck to get a bear skin!

just my 2 cents

Sam

[vancopower]

3 hours ago, Dirmagnos said:

Ive thought about it. But really, when you go on a long hike or moving, do you take with you only the essentials or do you leave your rifle at home, and instead bring with you a dozen of hides ? And would you go out naked, if you can help it, and take 5 hatchets with you ? Even if npc needs clothes, would you be carrying an extra wolf coat with you at all times ?

I dont think that there should be no rare items of npcs that pass thru area(as long as that is exactly that, they move from one point of the map to another at certain pace, preferably uneven, maybe stay overnight in some building if conditions are right) and then they are gone. But i think that their selection and requirements(if they will agree to trade at all, if they wont shoot you first that is) should be more realistic, quite similar to player - ammo, food, tools, etc with occasional rare item for trade, at extremely high rate to offer, something that they picked up along the road, just in case.

So that player would have a make a choice, even if npc is neutral, how to act - do you let him give you finger, or maybe trade something at extortionate rate, or simply shoot him and get all those amazing goodies for free(even those that he would not be willing to trade) ? Temptation is a powerful motive.

Also keep in mind, that those matches or flare are yours, you know what they can do. But if that "nice" coat turns out to have a huge hole that was covered by some rudimentary stitching, or have lice, or is generally barely kept together by some prayer and a bit of duct tape ? Besides, what good is the coat if you will freeze to death in the evening since you have no matches ? Or cant get firewood, since you traded away your knife or hatchet ? Or the next wolf attack will be the you last, since you no longer have any meds left to treat those injuries ?

Well let's put it this way: You've made yourself wolf coat, deer boots and you got yourself a base you live like this for 100 and more days and you nearly run out of matches and flares and painkillers let say. Then on one day you think I should go to another area and look for supplies, and as you travel with your full clothing you encounter NPC traveling the other way round He is friendly and  invites you to join him in a cave he found, and there should be a dialogue do you accept or not and if you accept sometimes it is a trap because his friends are waiting there to ambush you but other times he likes to trade and has based himself there in the cave and has many matches flares pills and even plants like rose hips, but since he basically lives in the open he need heavy clothes that you have. So you give him your own clothes which you can make again back at base and he is more than happy to give you lots of matches , flares and pills that he hoarded in the cave also he would like some food which you carry for yourself and there you go you trade items and now there is no need for you to go further you return to your base and craft the clothes again. The only challenge for you is making it back  to the base without your finest clothes. Now isn't that adventure more compelling  than just running around looting whatever you could find?

[Dirmagnos]

@hauteecolerider That could actually be interesting.

@Rusty_Old_F250 There is a difference between settled and mobile NPCs. If hes settled and those 55 gallons of kerosene seem like more than enough for him, it doesnt mean that hel pump them into a barrel and go wandering with it. There are pros and cons for every variation.

@vancopower Ok, im probably nitpicking, but if that npc has his hq setup in a cave, then from where he gets all those supplies ? Presumable hes looting empty houses, but why then he setup himself in that cave, its cold and hardly safe. Another point, how he managed to stockpile all that stuff if he has no proper clothes ? To the point that hes willing to trade his extremely valuable stuff, id say worth its weight in gold, for some simple improvised clothes ? And not just give them, but give you a LOT of them. You dont hoard stuff to just give it away later on to some complete stranger. "Id give you one bottle of painkillers for that nice wolf coat" sounds far more balanced to me.

Also that crap with ability to run around at -20C in snow buttnaked for hours without any real consequences needs to be fixed. Its completely ridiculous. Irl youd be icicle by then. And when its used to fight wolves - thats just absurd - damage should be multiplied by 10 in those cases.

[Diamondz]

I see a lot of excellent comments with regards to the trading system idea. I am very curious to see what Raph has in store for us....

[Diamondz]

2 hours ago, Rusty_Old_F250 said:

I like the idea of trading for services, etc etc. My background is in auto repair and welding/fabrication, so things like woodworking, hide tanning and sewing, etc are things I have very little experience with, and I would gladly trade some of my services for. And before anyone says anything about us not having cars, skills learned in auto repair translate easily into plenty of things, small engine repair, hydraulics, wiring and general repair on just about anything, like a radio, or a lantern or even minor repairs on a rifle. Cars are rocket science compared to most of that kind of stuff.

And welding/fabrication has infinite uses, need a set of hinges and a bar/bolt to keep the riff raff out of your cabin? I can help with that. (and there are ways to weld without electricity) Need a finely carved and fitted rifle stock? I'm not your guy.

But I could see NPC's trading "rare" supplies to us for various other objects, lets say, for example, they have a 55 gallon drum of kerosene. They are never going to burn up that much, so I'm sure they would gladly trade for other things they could use.

And not everyone wants to go risk their neck to get a bear skin!

just my 2 cents

Sam

Thanks Sam for your input. Much appreciated!

[hauteecolerider]

@Rusty_Old_F250 Now I know who to go to when I need a gun's bolt action repaired or replaced! I'll trade you my finely-sewn fur mitts (hey, I've had a long relationship with catgut sutures, aka "Cured Gut")!

[vancopower]

6 hours ago, Dirmagnos said:

@hauteecolerider That could actually be interesting.

@Rusty_Old_F250 There is a difference between settled and mobile NPCs. If hes settled and those 55 gallons of kerosene seem like more than enough for him, it doesnt mean that hel pump them into a barrel and go wandering with it. There are pros and cons for every variation.

@vancopower Ok, im probably nitpicking, but if that npc has his hq setup in a cave, then from where he gets all those supplies ? Presumable hes looting empty houses, but why then he setup himself in that cave, its cold and hardly safe. Another point, how he managed to stockpile all that stuff if he has no proper clothes ? To the point that hes willing to trade his extremely valuable stuff, id say worth its weight in gold, for some simple improvised clothes ? And not just give them, but give you a LOT of them. You dont hoard stuff to just give it away later on to some complete stranger. "Id give you one bottle of painkillers for that nice wolf coat" sounds far more balanced to me.

Also that crap with ability to run around at -20C in snow buttnaked for hours without any real consequences needs to be fixed. Its completely ridiculous. Irl youd be icicle by then. And when its used to fight wolves - thats just absurd - damage should be multiplied by 10 in those cases.

Again you are not seen this clearly first of matches and flares are light bullets too and how it is that more valuable if you have tons of them rather than a warm clothes? Do you read my posts or just slap them down with reply ? how did he got them is not important in fact he doesn't tell you would you if this was your bargaining power right? also he has clothes but not warm enough which he can give them to you in order for you not to be naked. He is in a cave not because of choice but maybe the weather caught up with him and how is bottle of painkillers as same value to him then wolf coat? and there are consequences if you run but naked you get hypothermia which is nasty you loose fatigue almost instantly which makes you weaker against wolf fights and if you didn't knew that do you even play the game or just like to talk about it and confuse everybody else hmm?

[Dirmagnos]

12 hours ago, vancopower said:

Again you are not seen this clearly first of matches and flares are light bullets too and how it is that more valuable if you have tons of them rather than a warm clothes? Do you read my posts or just slap them down with reply ? how did he got them is not important in fact he doesn't tell you would you if this was your bargaining power right? also he has clothes but not warm enough which he can give them to you in order for you not to be naked. He is in a cave not because of choice but maybe the weather caught up with him and how is bottle of painkillers as same value to him then wolf coat? and there are consequences if you run but naked you get hypothermia which is nasty you loose fatigue almost instantly which makes you weaker against wolf fights and if you didn't knew that do you even play the game or just like to talk about it and confuse everybody else hmm?

Do you ream mine ?

You just revert back to magically appearing stuff. Why not to just place a supermarket then somewhere, with unlimited supply of stuff, that accepts hides as currency ? Essentially what you wannt, but far less hassle.

Also, generally speaking, while matches are fairly common, im pretty sure that this npc has better chance of finding cloths in one of abandoned buildings rather that ammo or meds. Otherwise all that stuff would be common when you search thru buildings and you wouldnt need it to begin with. And since were going in that direction, then what exactly prevents him from hunting same wolves and making a coat for himself ?

And bottle of painkillers, given situation, will always be worth far more that a wolf coat. For the simple reason that its a finite resource, in comparison to same wolf coats. And there will always be demand for those meds.

[vancopower]

6 minutes ago, Dirmagnos said:

Do you ream mine ?

You just revert back to magically appearing stuff. Why not to just place a supermarket then somewhere, with unlimited supply of stuff, that accepts hides as currency ? Essentially what you wannt, but far less hassle.

Also, generally speaking, while matches are fairly common, im pretty sure that this npc has better chance of finding cloths in one of abandoned buildings rather that ammo or meds. Otherwise all that stuff would be common when you search thru buildings and you wouldnt need it to begin with. And since were going in that direction, then what exactly prevents him from hunting same wolves and making a coat for himself ?

And bottle of painkillers, given situation, will always be worth far more that a wolf coat. For the simple reason that its a finite resource, in comparison to same wolf coats. And there will always be demand for those meds.

You do know that TLD is single player right? why are you sooo picky ? what does it mater how or why? NPC's will be in the game so we might as well interact with them somehow. How do you see the trade the interaction why don't you present your own idea instead of just scolding and complaining all the time. I've read many posts now from you, all you do is criticize and do not bring anything to the table. You do realize that we are here to inspire new ideas not criticize ideas right? I am sorry if this post goes out of topic again but someone has to say something, I have nothing against you don't take it personal but it is the truth, you do not contribute! I will not post anymore on this. 

[Diamondz]

3 hours ago, vancopower said:

You do know that TLD is single player right? why are you sooo picky ? what does it mater how or why? NPC's will be in the game so we might as well interact with them somehow. How do you see the trade the interaction why don't you present your own idea instead of just scolding and complaining all the time. I've read many posts now from you, all you do is criticize and do not bring anything to the table. You do realize that we are here to inspire new ideas not criticize ideas right? I am sorry if this post goes out of topic again but someone has to say something, I have nothing against you don't take it personal but it is the truth, you do not contribute! I will not post anymore on this. 

That's unfortunate sir. I thought this could be a good idea to discuss about since this is a developing game. I am, like many others in this forum, are trying to contribute to this wonderful game and praise those who have a good Idea. But I see your point and I respect your opinion. Cheers!