BareSkin

The Ravine is another matter, there's no indoor places and no workbench to craft clothes. Sure there is no wolf and more sticks, but that's a sure death, I won't go there. Winding river is manageable since the Dam can be attached to it (it's clearly not needed to survive Mystery Lake). I just checked the temperature on day 20, it already goes down to AT-24 at 7PM, FL-9 when naked in a shelter.

@Czhilli Honestly if I'm very lucky: -I wait nearly 18h before warm hours (I enter mine at midnight), which means I need to make the first fire even before leaving the mine, for water -with good weather in warm hours, I run naked and loot all sticks of the map on day 1 without freezing and not being wolfed (it's just not lucky, it's miraculous), I may get to 30-40 sticks in exchange of a lot of hypothermia, and may snatch 2 rabbits. -In any indoor place, I'm now exhausted and get the 2 guts to cure: it's 6-7 day countdown (with craft and snaring) I need to spend eating only non-renewable food -I sleep, next morning, get out and set a fire for cooking the rabbit: I spend half my sticks reserve (+water), the other half for sleeping a bit -If I'm lucky and wake up alive (no fire killing), I'm now in a cold morning, back in an indoor place with nothing to do until warm hours, no more sticks. I can see it basically stretched with coal/deer carcass plus some loot, and maybe even dying frozen in the car at the first morning blizzard, but that makes it only at best, a few days. I have no doubt a free can + chosen item would make it doable, not saying I am able to reach day 60 tho, didn't say it would be easy. I'm still contemplating the snow shelter variation, but it takes time to get a survivor to day 60 temperatures, unfortunately. Still, that's a gamble on how much cloth you find. Don't find 5 cloths? Dead. Anyway, the idea of a challenge is that it's doable independently of loot tables. It would be like trying to Snowball in TWM on a loot table that doesn't give a hacksaw: it's pointless. Keeping clothes isn't an option for me and too hard to track, that's the basic of what makes the challenge hard. The number of days shouldn't matter because again that would be a gamble about starting resources (namely number of coals), and I like the 30-day kinda-moon-cycle idea in a Cinderella challenge. Would it be OK, @tulkawen if I take a can and an item of my choice? I could pay with 0 item on next transfer I will welcome any data from those playing post-day50 Voyager about Air Temperatures at different hours (snow shelter is wind-shielded). Maybe in PM in order not to flood the thread.

That's already in the rules and in my plan, the workbench is nice once you get at least 2 cured guts: once for fishing tackle, one for rabbitskin hat, and the coal produced is around 20. It also offers a nice indoor near the rabbit grove, and the way to the car is protected from the wolf (he can't shortcut on the rock). This is a great find, since the main problem of not having bedroll is the fire exposition since it needs to be near a car. That makes a possibility if I ever find 5 cloth, but I doubt I can find 33 sticks everyday (even with 20 starting coals and respawn), and I would need to go naked everyday to the snares place which I can't move, and come back unwolved to the shelter with 3 bar scents. It's still a possibility as long as the shelter is not near one of the wolf patrol routes. I'm not sure about that. It'll need more checking, but naked in a Shelter you need constant AT>-18°. Not sure it happens on late Voyager. Plus that make the blizzard problem the same, since temperatures drop during your sleep and force a fire on you since you're far from any indoor place. I will look for a sheltered place near the rabbits, near an indoor (where I will spend most of my time). Maybe the dead end of the road, the wolf doesn't patrol this place. I have a philosophical problem with that (changing the rules), but I also have one with trying the impossible. Deadman is very hard, but I tried several times because I though I could make it, that's not the case here (I wouldn't re-try such a Cinderella), mainly because of the fuel I need to find everyday (running naked) on such a small map (it just doesn't exist). The coal will make it doable for a few days but that's it. The snow shelter is a nice option when you have clothing. To me it all boils down to having a bedroll (= being granted a free can). The bedroll removes the need of fuel for sleeping, and I would need only half of the sticks for cooking/water. 20 coals for a 35 sticks/day lifestyle sleeping outside is a mere help (~30h of fire, that's what, 5 days?), 20 coals when you need only 15/day and are quite assured not to get your fire killed cause you can make it in the cave in case it's blizzard, that's a save. On a side note, I've always though it's a huge failure in the game not to be able to sleep anywhere (of course with penalties compared to bed/bedroll). Like I'm completely exhausted, I'm in a mine, I can't lay down? I will do the maths with a bedroll and check Voyager afternoon temperatures and come back with my findings.

That's actually Qi-Gon that taught Yoda how to live after life as a Force Ghost, but he was better at Force science than in combat... I was Han Solo in that test, btw. I shot first. I double checked just to make sure I was not stupid (can happen), and no I have no cooking pot. Not a big surprise since they're usually found in houses, and there's none in DP, no place has a stove. I thought just like you at first about the maps, then I checked the rules carefully, and it said "transition mines" and not "transition maps"... My first thought was "How can I ever survive in HRV without a craft table and a visitor in my ice cave"? Then I launched the game, ended in DP, thought about Old Island Connector just before switching my mind to "I'm screwed" The fuel is the main problem, if I don't make a fire at the best time, I need more fuel. If I don't sleep when the fire is on (in a car since I have no bedroll), I die frozen. Even without making water, if I sleep more than 1h and my fire gets killed during my sleep (it's not protected), I die. Even 1h chunks are a gamble, if the fire gets killed in the first minutes, I freeze for 1h = -20% health+ frosbites at Torso and Legs, at minimum (If I ever manage to craft a hat). With the best option and when everything works well (no blizzard), I need 30 sticks burnt everyday. Honestly I've launched a test Voyager, I found 30 sticks upon arriving in OIC, got frozen in the meantime even with killing the wolf with a rifle I won't have, but of course the next morning there was no more fuel to find. Even knowing what I will find in Harris, that wouldn't change a lot of things about the fuel problem. Except if a bedroll spawns but I doubt that, launched a dozen of test and never found one (in Harris you mainly find tools and sometimes a tshirt or socks)

Guys and gals, I got a problem. I tried to focus on what science I needed more before I meet Prince Charming, and it ends up I don't see how I could manage to survive in Old Island Connector bringing 1 can. I did the maths in favorable conditions (Fire5, cooking 5, enough snare efficiency, didn't take blizzard into account), here's where I am down: - With no bedroll (this is the critical point), the only place to sleep is one of the cars, or a snow shelter (provided I find cloth, which is unsure at least). Both these solutions require a fire burning when I sleep in order not to die frozen. -Even if I was lucky enough for not having my fire killed by weather, I need to sleep in 1h chunks to make water. The break-even point in such favorable conditions leads me 6% health margin to: 1/ to finding 33 sticks every day, running naked on the map 2/ picking up rabbits and not being wolfed -Plus we all know the difference between theorycraft and actual gaming: there's no margins in this scenario - The kill wolf option is not here, I only have a prybar Adding 1h sleep gets the health margin to 15% a day but asks for 39 sticks, not even taking into account killed fire and freezing damage in case of a blizzard while sleeping. There is coal in the mine but still, that only reduces the fuel quantities to find marginally compared to what blizzards will take from me. In the snow shelter variation, provided I find some cloth to build it (work boots and work gloves give leather), it's not much better, and since inside the snow shelter you can be attacked, my life would be short anyway, before the maths go wrong. Plus it gives +18°C bonus while sleeping/passtime, which is not sufficient when you have a naked body on late Voyager. If I make a fire in front of the shelter, it goes back to the previous problem. Since I can't figure out a way to have the least chance in this challenge with leaving without a bedroll, I will take any advice. Even tough I'm dead sick right know, I still think my brain capacities have been at their maximum on this matter! Please don't propose ideas that rely on pure gamble (finding a can/bedroll/Expedition parka/hatchet/knife...), I can do this alone

Only Interlopers know how to do that, there's this secret recipe:

BareSkin32- D17 [Cinderella ] -Fire 4 -Harvest 4 BareSkin32- D17-D20 [Cinderella ] - Took saplings at Broken Bridge for archery training -Forge arrowheads - More fire training -some sleep science, weird results for a 11h-sleep... For some reason the theory doesn't hold in such a long stretch: I've repeated the measure three times and got 3 times the same result of 67% recovered (6.1%/h), while a 10h sleep gave 75% back...

BareSkin32- D15 [Cinderella ] -more science about different needs privation, and combinations of them. -Hear the bear, shoot it. Its brother’s hide is finished curing, what a good joke. -Kill my second wolf, who didn’t attack me. For Justice. He’s the one that killed my little brother Bareskin27 I kept this empty cartridge and made a necklace with a cured gut. I won't forget you, lil bro. - I do harvest it for training, but the next bear should be enough. BareSkin32- D16 [Cinderella ] -Quarter the bear, then fire training - find 2 others arrows at broken bridge, also find a hammer and hacksaw in Hibernia so I go get some saplings in case I need to fight boredom later -some science gets edgy, I once end up at 9% and another time with a collection of frostbites risks, another time with hypo. Nothing that can't be taken care of with a good sleep in Voyager.

Yes that's cooking3, but you still smash the cans. Losing 0% of calories has nothing to do with the process. You smash it, you lose it. Makes sens, right? There's no chance I get the achievement of having all level 5 skills, since I don't use the bow and don't have enough cartridges to shoot. But cooking is nice, so should be Fire. About the bow, you're right, but I just found a hacksaw and a hammer, so maybe, in the future... the training will not chance many things anyway. Legend says a man came back from the dead 3 times in a row, his shall be named Deadman 10:

BareSkin32- D11 [Cinderella ] -Aurora morning: maglens trainin -Science all needs except warmth: from 70% down to 19% for 12h passtime, that’s -4.3%/h. Sounds right, 1 for starvation, 1 for exhaustion, 2 for dehydration. BareSkin32- D12 [Cinderella ] -Morning cooking to drop health further -Sleep 10h from 12% to 87% - Science: awake starved + dehy from 89% to 64 % in 7h : -3.6%/h - Science: sleep starved + dehy from 64% to 42 % in 7h : -3.1%/h BareSkin32- D13 [Cinderella ] -Morning bear cooking: cooking 5. The bear guts are cured, but I have no use for them since I can't take anything. -More science -More firestarting BareSkin32- D14 [Cinderella ] -Sleep science of Voyager sleeping: I found the Law (=code), seems to be as is: for each additional hour the healing ratio per hour (healing efficiency) is up .5%. There's no use in sleeping 12h in Voyager, unless you're already dead past 2%, I think even @Drifter Man is not able of coming back from so much deadness.

I'll have to check it anyway since the map is so small, but losing a match just to warm my naked body to go there will be tearful

@Czhilli thanks a lot for being so concerned , your info helps. I assume the snares will be enough calories since there's no deer. I could also possibly mix with wolf meat if the choice presents itself and I have enough health to survive a struggle. Do wolves die from prybars? BareSkin32- D10 [Cinderella ] -Aurora morning: maglens training. Firestarting 3. That’s important not to lose sticks for tinder on day 30+, since sticks will be a big problem for not freezing while sleeping in cars. - At church I snap the 3 rabbits for training, and I’m granted 53 sticks Cinderella, your nail liquid is already completely gone (is there a better name for it?) - The bear didn’t respawn yet. - While coming back to Hibernia starved and exhausted, I had my second barking: I hide in the small entry control cabin at the barrier. - For testing and since I need to lose health for science, I passtime starved and exhausted for 7h, good simulation of my next life as a cave rat: I expect something around -21% health (14 from starvation, 7 from exhaustion). I go from 89% down to 80%, that’s a weird. On day 6 I lost 13% for a 7h starved sleep, on day 9 I lost 5%/5h for exhaustion - Now it’s 1.5%/h starved+exhausted awake?!… Something is going wrong in the code here imo, I’ll need to check it back later - Science fact: the hydration circle is for 8h passtime (1.5 times the 12h sleeping decay) - I can’t wait to do more science: I already tested awake exhausted (day9), I’ll check awake starved after I sleep 3h: from 79% to 91% (+12%, +4%/h)

BareSkin32- D9 [Cinderella ] -There’s a carcass above Mine 5 entrance, I cook it only for training (I don’t even bother eating this) -Blizzard at noon, 4 new coals in the mine -I’m back in Hibernia with 84 sticks for practising when the sun will be back -I have so much food in the locker (8.7kg) I don’t know what to do with it. I eat something to be able to finish Frozen Angler. - While training firestarting, Cinderella says thousands of times “Come on little fire, Come on!” That’s annoying and reminds me why I removed the monologue while playing Custom. - Now that I’m exhausted, I eat for testing exhaustion: I pass time 5h in bed, from 94% down to 89%. That’s -1%/h. - Sleep science: 1h is 3% heal (back to 92%), 2h are 7% ( back to 99%) - Science done, I sleep. I have work for tomorrow: lose more health for more testing.

The mine only has 1 cloth, but if I take a bedroll I can harvest 10. It circles back that if I have a bedroll I don't need a shelter. I think I have no other choice than taking a can and sleeping in a car. We'll see if I find enough fuel and luck (no winds) for that... I might still craft the bearskin bedroll for the fun of it, never done that before They were, it seems. The bear died near Matt's truck (the bridge cascade) so it wasn't too far if you sprint. I would need to have the double-luck to also find a can opener or knife or hatchet... that's a HUGE bet on my life...

I chose the Urban Parka for it's best "inside warmth weight ratio". Military is warmer but double the weight. If you look carefully, I didn't harvest the bear BareSkin32- D8 [Cinderella ] - Morning cooking, then reading, then head to Katie’s. - At Katie’s, I harvest 1 carcass and 3 rabbits just for training, I drop all the meat uncooked and didn’t even make a fire. - I find a bow (first time since I lpay TLD), 1 good arrow and 1 broken and 2 arrows. That could be helpful fighting boredom later, and since I have a forge and too much fuel/scraps... I regret not having launched Saplings curing, then remember I don't have any saw or hatchet. -I came for a copy of Survive the Outdoors, there’s none. - At nightfall I end up near Coal Mine #3, I check the rules: I’m allowed to sleep in there, but can’t drop anything for later, and if I take anything it belongs to Desolation Point and will have to be left upon leaving - So my strategy is, since I want to keep the mine loot for day 30-60: I’ll explore with storm lantern, don’t touch anything, drop the bedroll, sleep, pick up my bedroll and leave the place. I really hope there is either a bedroll or an harvested can in the mine, that would make my choice between these 2 key items easier for day 30 since I cannot know what I will find at Harri’s. This will have to wait for day 31. I can already hear the wolves waiting for my naked body. Human clothes are bothersome when you're a wolf. No Bedroll. No can. This is critical, I needed one of these two to survive the next phase. If I don't take a bedroll, I'll end up dead frozen in a car. If I don't take a can, I'll end up dead dried from within. Ignition was critical too (can't take the maglens anyway), but before slipping sleepy into my bedroll, I see some matches one the shelves. I dream of canned food and can openers.

Because it's not . But since you're the referee, I swear I'm still on DesoPoint. I've done my cooking at the Riken. BareSkin32- D6 [Cinderella ] - I wake up in the cold morning and go light a fire up for water. - Used 6 matches so far, didn't bother having torches since I still have 68 in lockers and 19 in invetory - The day is clear, I use the maglens to train fairestarting - Sun disappears 1h later, I spend my morning collecting sticks - Usually when I brake branches, I’m on a late Loper (day 50+), here I do this cause I’m lazy and it’s free - Since I’m on Voyager I visit the end-of- the-world cave. I clear the place with my rifle and exit the cave with tons of fuel and some steaks, harvesting 3, I leave the second rifle. - Sleep around 7 or 8h in the cave starved, from 77% down to 64%: these -13% should have been coming from a 12h sleep, so Hunger definitely had its punishing code doubled from -1%/h to -2%/h, good to know. It makes Sleepwalker 0 balanced instead of Sleepwalker 1 BareSkin32- D7 [Cinderella ] - Cold morning: cook at cave entrance, Cooking4. - At noon, back to Hibernia in sunlight to train firestarting with maglens, Level2 - 12h sleep at Riken, on calories from cooked deer from the morning cave, even if it wasn’t needed for healing.

Hibernia Whale Processing, isn't it called that way the big industrial building?

@tulkawen good to know, never understood what this flame-UI was meant for. BareSkin32- D5 [Cinderella ] - Before sleeping I eat a big bear steaks (990 calories, I need only 810 but I’m a jet-setter) on purpose since I’m tired, but I don’t contract parasites risk… It might be deactivated on Voyager? That would basically mean I already have all my food for the 30 days I’m supposed to live here. -Sleep-heal 12h from 25% to 100% - Snowstorm in the morning, harvest another bar bag. And finally spend the all day honing my skills: cooking 3 (I drop the can opener) and Harvesting 2.5, lots of bear uncooked yet, I prefer to cook in the morning. - Back in Hibernia, I use the 2 pieces of rabbit meat I left there just for reading Sewing Primer (for my last feat “Book Smarts”) - I ate a total of 1 soda (first night hydration) + 1 dog food (for harvested can) as a grand total for civilized food. - Sleep starved for 6h until dawn, I don’t need the heal

The fire makes the Air Temperature immediately go to +1°C. On Loper it doesn't happen, you have to fight the real air temp back to positive with fuel. Like if AT is-33°, you have to have a fire of 33 sticks to get AT back to positive, that makes an unnecessary long fire. About the harvest/cooking cheats, first it's kinda cheating, second it's not relevant for a regular Voyager so I will let you discover this when you will need it on Interloper . I just hope Hinterland removes this possibility quite soon. BareSkin32- D3 [Cinderella ] - Wake up just before dehydration, OK, voyager allows 12h sleep-heal which is basically full life every morning when you can sleep with all 4 needs OK. -Go outside to drop rabbit meat, hear the Bear walking, but I have no hacksaw and no knife so I head to the mine. -Loot the mine, find a knife at the church, blizzard kicks in and ends the day before I meet the 3 rabbits. - In the red car before Hibernia, Cardboard matches. Forgot they existed, just like packs with more than 12 matches. - I repair clothing until blizzard ends at dusk, I go check this bear with +24°C bonus , FL+6. - I drag the bear to the Riken, but when I enter it to shoot safely, it magically disappears. Maybe it resets once we switch in the aurora night loading screen? -Since my health is still <50%, I just sleep a few hours until dawn, starved and dehydrated. BareSkin32- D4 [Cinderella ] - Wake up and head outside to make a nice morning fire for water - While it boils I go check the Riken: the bear is back. I shoot him from the boat and let it run. This is so easy with a rifle. One bullet, done. - I'm kinda angry it took me 4 days to shoot the first one, I hope it will respawn/die/cure/be crafted before I have to leave that map. - Once the water is finished, back to the Riken I see crows, I go quarter the carcass: my first bear hide is now curing. - I spend the rest of the day processing the meat.

BareSkin32- D2 [Cinderella ] - Wake up fully rested around 3AM, dehydrating but not yet starving -I I spend the day like this, -3%/h*12h= -36% health. I’ll wait the evening to use my can opener one of my 45% dog food - while waiting starvation, I loot the place with storm lantern, find… a third storm lantern… - I transfer starved in Hibernia, and harvest the rabbits fully, barehands, before looting an old fashion parka I’ve never seen before. - I find 3 more big coats I’ve never seen in Interloper (military/urban/olfashion), what will I do with 4 coats? I really need to stop reporting the loot… - Found the rifle at Astrid’s cache (my cache actually) -Safe gives Expedition parka, we Loperers usually find useless crap… -I love to find books, that’s the last feat I don’t have. -Repair the rifle and load it with my 9 cartridges waiting blizzard to end. - Lost 45% health for 12h starvation+dehydration, this is more punishing than expected so clearly one is more punishment than it was before, maybe both. - There is definitely a wolf when I head towards the bridge, I’m quite surprised and run back to Hibernia. I have to make my brain learn that it is probably not synonymous of death in Voyager. - At nightflall I'm down to 46% health, I spend my first match with accelerant, cook the rabbit and make water, make a second harvested can, make torches and sleep for 10h - The fire instantaneously makes AT>0, whatever you put in it. Cheated. -I forgot to cheat the harvest and cooking bonuses. Next time I’ll remember. Code is Law. -I don’t boil water, I’ll use the tablets. -Eat 800 calories, sleep 12h from 43% health back to 100%

For sure the "connecting" maps are rather small to live for 30 days naked, but a challenge is a challenge, we'll see. Old Island has an indoor place, so it could be worse. I think the cold will kill me on day 31, if I had a bet to make.

BareSkin32- D1 [Cinderella – Tulkawen writing style] - First time I start in an indoor location, that’s weird. -DesoPoint takes ages to let you make your first move, I thought is was because of outdoor shore graphics, it’s not. -The lighthouse is one of the places I hate most with Skeeter’s. - I survived 30+ days on Desolation Point in Interloper (Bareskin15), I think I can make it on Voyager. -Can’t see a damn thing in this early morning, but it’s nice not having to immediately run for avoiding hypo - Get out in this coldest hour to grad rose hips and stone, come back inside with 80% of my tempbar, that’s incredible! -OMG, my backpack is already full of nice things, I even have a soda! Disinfectant and antibiotics and painkillers! A bedroll! They even give you 12 matches, and a flare, LOL! -Try to sleep 1h to get more light, but Rest is a resource, good to know. -I start to list the loot like when I report Lopers+, but stop immediately… Wool tuke and thick wool sweater are worth mentioning tho -Rifle cleaning kit? Rifle cartridge ? How could it possibly be useful? -I don’t brake crates, I’ll come back for them later if needed, for free. Since I need to stay 30 days… -While waiting for noon I read Wilderness kitchen fully, since I’m fed. -Snap 2 rabbits at Little -Loot of the Riken with a luxurious Storm Lantern: as for the torch, it doesn’t produce heat anymore. -second Storm Lantern… really? Second crowbar? That makes a lot of metal scraps… -While going to Hibernia with 2 fresh rabbits, can’t hear any howling, are there no wolves at all on Voyager?! -In the trailer complex, I decide to use my last calories for a 6h-sleepheal. I use my soda to stay hydrated overnight and not spend a match. That eventually allows a 9h sleep.

OK so, @tulkawen was thinking of a way to make Voyager hardcore for someone who never played any other level than Interloper on Survival. I swear on my honor I've never hit that "reset stats" button Here are the set of rules: I will report here pseudo-live and welcome any comments or advice. Let's wait no more!

This is correct. I started with Wintermute, the hardest mode. After also completing "Nomad", I was still considering myself as a "new" player when started my first survival in Interlopers. Didn't know the maps, couldn't figure out why I didn't find a rifle and nice clothes, was looking for NPCs and their infinite fire... ahah, good old times!

I thought about it, of course the item must be a bedroll and yes the bearskin is better since it's decaying very less rapidly, as all animal crafted item. But I didn't even think the Rifle existed... won't help my naked body against the cold anyway. I was just praying TLD gods to start on a map with a forge to be able to bow-hunt a bear. This challenge is gonna be fun, I'll start a thread and play this realtime for all seasoned Voyagers advices . The calories won't be a problem at all. Only the cold.