Friendly wildlife (Pet dog anyone?)

[Kouloungoulou]

Hello,

I love your game but I think about thew features who can really ameliorate the immertion! (sorry for my english, i'm french I do my best )

- I think more animals can be cool. But specialy wild dog ! The could be agressive or not and you can tame them by giving food. Then he can help you to hunt, and fight with the wolf when the wolf is attacking you ! The dog will have his own health and you will feed him and heal him, and a lot of stuff that you will think yourself about if you like this idea

- I think a goood thing too may be to find some tuto pages in the houses. Every time you find one of them, she will be added on a book. One of this pages can be : " wolf are afraid of the light, throw them flares", or " to tame a dog you have to be patient and give him food once a day at the place where you met him the first time during 3 days approximatly. Then he will follow you maybe"

-I only play 10 hours but I already in love with the game. But how can i defend against the wolf if i don't have bullets or flare or torch ? I think a good idea can be to add the possibility to craft bullets because it is a very important ressource and for the moment she is very exhaustible..

Thank you for this very good game !!

[Coreycat]

I actually like the dog idea.

A man was lost in the wilderness of Quebec with his German Shepherd, and their campsite had been totally destroyed by a bear. The dog protected the man (apparently), and chased the bear off before it could do any more damage. The man had a broken ankle from a fall, so he couldn't do much, and was out at the Nottaway river, and I guess he just wasn't able to find his way home.

Anyway, three days after the dog saved him from a bear, he beat the dog to death with a rock and ate it. That's pretty dark and I think, if we were also given this option with the dog, would really suit the theme of the game.

[Catalyst]

No idea how the mechanics of having a pet dog would work, and how you would prevent it getting attacked or eaten by wolves... but how cool would it be to have a friend in the game.

[Burning Bridges]

I would suggest something similar but with existing mechanics (if the AI ist ever up to it). I often thought how I would get used to a certain wolf or animal, which chooses to stay around our house and eat stuff that I throw away. No other changes to the game except more adaptive AI and persistent animals. Perhaps the would also lose fear. And if it's a dog, he might even stay outside the house and become some sort of companion, at least for a while until the dies or the next game update interferes :lol:

[Amateur Bushcrafter]

If the thing is to just pet the dog, then i got other games to suggest you and even then i wouldn't, because i would just say get yourself a real pet instead. But that's not the case, the idea were to have it hunt for you, right? But wouldn't that ruin the oppertunity to take the only advantage we got over wolves? Where we have the wolf lay down deer and rabbits for us and then to take carcass to loot.

[caverdude]

A pet that doesn't require food and water too?

[AmericanSteel]

I am not down for a pet. While having a dog would be cool, I think it would be easy fodder for the game.

1. If you have not trained the dog well, it is going to run after ground game (like rabbits), especially if they are hungry. They are incapable of taking on a deer but are capable of being injured by one. I also don't see a family pet making it against a wolf. If it is a large dog, they may try to save their pack, ie you, and get tangled up with a wolf. How do you plan on separating them? Even if you manage to kill the wolf and save the dog... how are your vet skills?

2. You have another mouth to feed. A 50 lbs dog needs 1200 cal a day just to exist. I think we could easily up this amount just like we have to for the player. Also, just because you can go into hibernation mode does not mean the dog will. If you are starving and you make a kill, who is to say your dog is not going to tear in and eat their fill? Eating rabbits you have snared? Destroying gut, meat and pelts all to satisfy it animal instincts.

3. Do you think you are being tracked by wolves now or having a hard time hunting? Imaging a dog baying while you move from point A to B? Rabbits are going to go to ground and deer are going to be out of sight. Not to mention wolves are going to be looking for this free meal on a leasing they keep hearing/smelling.

4. Extreme Cold - We will have to assume your dog is a large breed with a thick coat, because the others are going to be frozen stiff. Even then, you are going to have to attend your needs and their needs.

5. Training a Wolf - Really?! Our domesticated dogs are many generations of selective breeding. Throwing a leash on an animal in the wild is not going to work. So you need a puppy to even begin this process. Wolf pups are born in the spring with the protection of the alpha female (at the very least). After it thaws, maybe... but I doubt it.

Again... I am going to cast my lot in with the no group on pets.

[Catalyst]

Even if it was a huskie dog, which managed to survive in pleasant valley at the farmstead. Perhaps it just hangs around the farmstead, occasionally chasing and killing/eating the nearby rabbits. Growling, becoming hostile if you attempt to steal it's kill (You might get the hide).

Perhaps it comes up to you if it's around (occasionally it would be nowhere to be seen/hunting). If you drop some food, it might eat it. If you had wildlife in the area (a bear, a wolf) it might run or get eaten. You might be able to pet it by clicking on it.

Perhaps it can come into the porch area, perhaps it can't. Perhaps it might follow you around and then stop at imaginary boundaries, seemingly afraid to leave it's safe home. Heck, there's even a doghouse there already.

Perhaps you can shoot and eat it in a pinch.

It doesn't need to be a pet which you need to maintain, if it's alive, the assumption is that it's capable of survival in this hostile world.

[caverdude]

I have to admit there is apeal in having a pet. If husky type it might discourage wolf attacks. And even Increase odds of killing wolf. Though there's a risk the wolf would kill it, while you kill wolf.

Also the pet might simply leave for hours at a time to get food if you don't feed it. It you tied it up and didon't feed it then it would die just like you.

Also might provide a warmth bonuses when resting to keep you from freezing.

[Bill Tarling]

Some Of The Many Previous Discussions:

viewtopic.php?f=59&t=3273

viewtopic.php?f=59&t=3050&p=16419&hilit=pets#p16419

viewtopic.php?f=59&t=2488&p=13907&hilit=pets#p13893

viewtopic.php?f=59&t=136

viewtopic.php?f=59&t=64&p=781&hilit=pets#p781

[toblerone231]

It would be super cool if there were animals that would slowly warm up to you. With a wild dog it would take a long time. It could start with it trying to attack you but if you drop meat it gets distracted. After doing that a few times it would stop trying to attack as long as the player keeps their distance and keeps the food coming. Eventually the dog could start following the player at a distance. A wild dog would never let a person take its food so it would be no good for hunting unless you are willing to ruin the relationship but it could scare off wolves. There could also be a domestic dog left in a house or something but that seems boring to me.

[Ms Nutcracker]

I would like to see a way you can tame wild animals as its very possible to have pets in the wild! Like feeding birds and they become friendly or finding injured wildlife and then it becomes a pet! Being in the wild does not mean that the animals are gone and it just you and the environment!

[treesaver4future]

The thought came to mind while I was playing the game that it would be neat to be able to tame the animals, different animals with a different level of difficulty. For example, bunnies easier to tame than wolves. Although I think it should be skill based and come at a cost of resources, so it's not something you do when you can barely survive by yourself. It would be neat to see an aspect to the game that doesn't always involve killing everything living and perhaps making friends to survive, even though they may not be of your own species. Also, whoever didn't want to play that way, wouldn't have to tame the animals.

And some of us can pretend to be Beastmasters! :shock:

[Dirmagnos]

While games do take certain creative liberties in their game world, taming wild animals is way up into unrealistic alley to be suitable for LD.

[treesaver4future]

While games do take certain creative liberties in their game world, taming wild animals is way up into unrealistic alley to be suitable for LD.

I apologize, I fail to see how it's unrealistic to tame animals when you can do such a thing in real life to some degree. I've known people who raised raccoons and had tamed squirrels or birds in their yards that came to sit on their shoulders and eat from their hands.

https://youtu.be/9nSWc43TLaI

https://youtu.be/BxXOMwhl9_g

Wolves lunging at your face at every corner is hardly realistic either in that same respect.

[Dirmagnos]

Both those videos are about domesticated animals, that were taken from either parks or zoos at very young age. In both of those cases those men spend decades learning about and from those animals and living with them.

So, if player can snag a pup from the den(good luck with that, wrestling a cub from his mother, not to mention wolves, that dont have pups till spring), and then spend a few years tending to it, then maybe.

But domesticating a fully grown animal is impossible. They may get used to humans to some degree(even that would take a long time), but crap that one may see in various games, like ARK with its dinosaurs, lol, is a complete and utter nonsense.

Also, squirrels are not the same, by a long mile, as wolves, in terms of domestication.

[treesaver4future]

Evolutionary biologists say it's not impossible to tame a grown wolf, but it's not easy either because they are passed their socialization window. However, the point I was trying to make is that giving people the ability to tame animals in game would balance out the surrealism of them attacking you at every corner, which doesn't happened in reality either! Wolves don't attack people on sight.

[Dirmagnos]

Sources pls. About "evolutionary biologists" statements.

And we know that wolves dont attack humans and prefer to avoid them when possible. There is a specific statement regarding that in game intro disclaimer. Giving player ability to tame animals would push borders of improbably by several margins in combination with aggressive wolves feature.

[akodo1]

While games do take certain creative liberties in their game world, taming wild animals is way up into unrealistic alley to be suitable for LD.

I apologize, I fail to see how it's unrealistic to tame animals when you can do such a thing in real life to some degree. I've known people who raised raccoons and had tamed squirrels or birds in their yards that came to sit on their shoulders and eat from their hands.

https://youtu.be/9nSWc43TLaI

https://youtu.be/BxXOMwhl9_g

Wolves lunging at your face at every corner is hardly realistic either in that same respect.

From your own video..."he is one of the few people who can interact with these incredible animals" and "we spend ENORMOUS hours behind the scenes"

Also note at time 1:15 he is wearing a bullet proof vest.

Taming wild animals does happen, almost always involving hand-raising the creature when it is young, and requires an incredible investment of time. You think you have time to do that in TLD? Maybe they can add a 'tame animal' recipes and 'crafting' it requires a bear or wolf cub then you invest 10,000 hours to have the finished product 'tame animal'. (note this is a sarcastic suggestion)

Second, he is one of the few people who can do it because he has built a knowledge base on bear behavior. We don't know much about the survivor we are portraying, but they probably aren't specialists in animal behavior.

Further domestication involves changing the animal on the genetic level. A tame wild animal still has it's full suite of instincts fully turned on. Tame animals DO attack their 'owners'...generally not out of malice or anything but simply because the owner does something and it triggers some ingrained response. I recall seeing a video of a guy in a white karate Gi with a bear and an older lady. The lady sat down next to the bear. The bear turned and noticed her there inside his comfort zone, and responded the way his instincts told him...attack first ask questions later. I am sure that's part of the reason the trainer you linked wears a bullet proof vest when training. It's a bit of added insurance in case anything goes wrong.

Leave taming wild animals out of TLD.

[treesaver4future]

Per your request...

"As their socialization window closes and they subsequently develop their hearing and sight, those new sounds and sights will elicit fear responses. This may explain why it’s extremely hard to domesticate wolves."

wonderopolis.org/wonder/can-wolves-be-tamed

There are other sources too if you have time to investigate.

Is there a source for the "domesticating a fully grown animal is impossible"? Curious, thanks.

She is not wearing a bullet proof vest! I repeat, she is not wearing a bullet proof vest!

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-272779 ... olves.html

Not sure why it's such a sore spot for people to consider tamed animals in this game. Having the ability to tame animals to some degree, even with the chance that they do at some point try to eat your face, wouldn't prevent you or anyone else from playing the ever eternal hunter.

From the "keeping this game playable" perspective, surviving more than 50 days without going crazy from boredom would certainly be aided if you had to spend hours upon hours to try to tame an animal. Consider that people are playing this game to survive 200+days, then what? What happens after 300+ days? It would be fun to have a challenge to overcome once you've gotten the hang of survival day in, day out. Hunting animals is certainly not as difficult compared to taming them. Hunting animals is far harder in real life than this game. It's a game, a lot of things are unrealistic. I love the immersion, yes, which I don't think would be broken by giving the taming option to those who want it and not using it if you don't want to. What prevents anyone from pretending it's not even there?

Wild carnivores aside, how do you feel about taming bunnies?

[Dirmagnos]

Ok, better late than never, took a while to contact and got a response from prof Lord.

"The first thing to realize is that domestication is something that evolves over generation, while taming occurs over an animal's lifetime. So No you can not domesticate a healthy grown wolf, or even a young wolf. However, taming is another thing all together. Taming is a fairly imprecise word, but basically means to make an animal less fearful of humans. The most profound way you can do this is through socialization. To do this you have to take advantage of the critical period of socialization which occurs from 2-6 weeks in wolves. You also need to start before 3 weeks, when their ears open. Preferably by 10 days around when their eyes open. If you attempt to socialize a wolf pup after 3 weeks of age, you will have an effect, the animal has a shorter flight distance, but they do not seem to form a social bond with people if you start the process after 3 weeks. I believe this is because you do not have sufficient time for them to become familiar with the smell of their human caretaker before their eyes open (see: Lord, K., (2013). A comparison of the sensory development of

wolves (Canis lupus lupus) and dogs (Canis lupus familiaris). Ethology.119: 110-120). You can habituate adult wolves, although it seems to be harder to do that to Habituate say a coyote or fox. Habituation usually occurs when the animal begins to associate the person with food. This animal is still skittish, but will have a shorter flight distance like the pups we attempted to socialize earlier in the paragraph after 3 weeks of age. So not the same as a socialized wolf. The problem here is that usually a wild adult wolf won't get close enough to people to start the habituation process. So in that case a hurt or sick or very hungry animal or an animal in captivity, would be a much more likely candidate. Woolpy and Ginsberg had a couple studies looking at trying to "tame" older wolves. They tried drugs and that didn't work, the best they could do was habituate.

(Woolly, J., Ginsburg, B. (1967) Wolf Socialization: A study of Temperament in wild social species. American Zoologist, May 1, 357-363.

However, even a well socialized wolf is not like a dog. They are more fearful of novelty in general, they do not generalize like a dog. They have a reduced flight distance towards people, but their social bond only extends to familiar people. They are more dangerous than a wild wolf, because they are more likely to attack than run away given their reduced flight distance, they are just more likely to end up in a position where fleeing becomes untenable. They show every behavior in the book that you would be horrified to find in a pet dog. So they are extremely different behaviorally even when well socialized. "

[Asulf]

I don't really disagree with your general point, but one, when you say if you take a wolf pup to tame, you have to take him before his third week. My grand father raised hunting dogs and I always heard about the fact he could not train the dog before he had finish his sevrage with the dog's mother, which could be during for a few weeks.

So, ok, we could not tame wolves or wolves' pup, but what about if we could find a domesticate dog (like German Sheppard, or Husky etc...) like we can find other tools (not that I am used to consider dogs like tools, I really don't, I love dogs) and that we have the possibility to train him, to raised him and maybe to cross him or her with wild wolves (Jack London's White fang styles) to perpetuate the family. I think that most of people will say that adds another mouths to feed in the game, or more constraint, but that could add another goal to, and a bit of friendship in this so lonely world.

[Dirmagnos]

Id like to be able to find a stray dog, since not that much time passed since Event, it would be fairly easy to make it friendly to protagonist, by feeding it and giving shelter.

It would also give game some more depth, with dog being able to warn protagonist about wolves/bears, find stuff buried in the snow, hunt rabbits, and generally to keep company for player.

[Asulf]

Plus the dog could add a kinda bonus of warm if you sleep beside him during a blizzard!

[bekkar]

i really love the idea of a dog as a pet. it can even make the game harder, same as easier.

you have to feed your dog with food and water. in the other hand the dog maybe can help you out in some bad situations. maybe you could craft some strap for your pet so he can carry some stuff.

further aspects are that you don't feel so alone. also you can take care of your dog while there is a blizzard outside. since we need to do more stuff indoors this would come to our pleasure.