discussion something about players ( I need answers)

[TWMountain]

Hello everyone, I think this is my first official introduction. My channel name is TimberWolf Mountain (yes, it's that map), and you can call me Eric or just TWMountain. Since I am Chinese, most of the time I stream and upload my videos on BiliBili. It looks like I’ve done quite well; I now have 5.8k followers, and all of my videos have accumulated 1.2 million views. Most of my video content involves translating and sharing developer diaries or news updates with the Chinese community, and making content summary videos as quickly as possible after DLC updates. I also make some beginner tutorial videos, such as teaching players about diseases and backpack management, as well as maps and some tips. But now I’ve encountered some troubles, so I created a new video series called "The Long Talk," where I discuss everything about TLD.

Here is my problem: (Thank you for watching) I found that most players do not like playing The Long Dark as a survival game. They prefer to play TLD as a fast-paced game. They don’t want to spend or waste time on this game. They don’t want to learn how to remember map routes or how to kill animals. Many people cannot play without Cheat Engine. They need to use X4 speed to make walking on Great Bear Island feel like less of a waste of time. I know I don’t have the right to change their play style. They can play however they want. But this play style confuses me. The first thing I tell new players is, "You can play Wintermute first if you have it," because Wintermute is easy and you only need to spend about 30-50 hours to finish it. This way, you can understand the background of Great Bear, the 6 maps, and basic game skills and other information. But now people react like this: "You told me this game doesn’t have a map? And I can’t check my position on the map? OK, that’s it, I give up. I don’t want to play this old-designed game anymore." Just like that. They think the game pace is very slow. They don’t have time to play it. They cannot imagine themselves as survivors on Great Bear. I mean, not remembering roads is normal, but they just can’t accept it. They are afraid of getting lost on Great Bear and dying there. So I don’t know how to teach them. I’ve stopped updating my tutorial videos for more than half a year. I can’t teach them anything. They can’t even watch a 15-minute video completely. I don’t understand if the times have changed or if I should change. I’m only 20 years old. Why can’t people understand that they are playing a survival game? They also have the same problem with cougars. (I know I should stop talking about the design of cougars, but I did some research.) Most players cannot accept that there is a new animal threatening survivors. They just think we are the kings of Great Bear. I should be the most powerful creature on this island, so I don’t like cougars. Just like that. They’re not trying to survive on this map; they’re trying to live on this map like a citizen. So they want a method to kill cougars without hurting themselves. Overall, nowadays players don’t want to pay anything to play this game, like time, learning time, walking time, backpack management, injuries sustained while killing wildlife, remembering roads, etc. Maybe I should just admit that TLD is an old game, created in 2013, and people in 2024, after 10 years, cannot understand the game’s design. Maybe the core of survival mode, "death is the only way," is wrong. People don’t like it; they can’t accept that they will die someday. They just want to play TLD, not a survival game. They want multiplayer games, crafting, growing food, and unlimited supplies. God, I have no idea. These things are almost driving me mad. My last video was about the cougar, and of course, I was severely criticized. Because if this thing has even a small disadvantage, it’s considered bad. I need this community to help me solve this issue. I still don’t understand if the times have changed or if I need to change. Thank you.

Edited August 5 by TWMountain
fix some errors

[RaukGorth]

Speculation: Your videos might be shown only to young people and the feedback you're getting is filtered by that. On Twitch side the average age is above 20 and I haven't seen comments that the game is too slow.

[TWMountain]

12 hours ago, RaukGorth said:

Speculation: Your videos might be shown only to young people and the feedback you're getting is filtered by that. On Twitch side the average age is above 20 and I haven't seen comments that the game is too slow.

Maybe...... But why they just don't understand this is a survival game. Game without maps can get more real experience, because we don't have phones no GPS no electric devices. 

[Leeanda]

I think these days the young generation are used to having things instantly because they've grown up with the technology that gives them anything at the touch of a button..     if you look on the forum most will say they play this game to relax ..that's because its not a fast moving game.. you have to work at it,plan ahead  and of course that takes time..     

That's just my opinion of course and I mean no disrespect to anyone ,it's just the way I see it...

[s7mar7in]

On 8/5/2024 at 1:12 PM, TWMountain said:

They need to use X4 speed to make walking on Great Bear Island feel like less of a waste of time. I know I don’t have the right to change their play style. They can play however they want. But this play style confuses me.

This is very interesting to read, thank you for posting this.

This is likely not a simple question to be answered but it is most likely a combination of several things.

• Age of the game or maybe the unique genre of the game TLD
• Age of the players or maybe their fast-paced lifestyle and quick mental skills
• Life experiences of the players who follow your channel
• Culture and society and how they may affect the player level of immersion in TLD
• Other personal preferences of the players, (there may be a fine line between relaxing, slow, and boring)

Perhaps you could think about how much of what makes playing The Long Dark enjoyable is the time we spend thinking about the game, how we might struggle with the many complex choices, quick decisions, and long-term planning, all of which are needed for survival.

IE: Maybe one play style is to play TLD for 30 minutes. Then take a break and return to your normal life, but also enjoy thinking about what will be required to progress the next time you play the game. Then the next time you play, put your preplanning into action and see how it works out.

Clearly, many of us in this TLD community enjoy thinking about the game, the story behind the game, and the choices a person in a real-life survival situation might be required to make. 

For me, actually playing the game is only a part of what makes TLD enjoyable.

I hope this helpful my friend.

Edited August 6 by s7mar7in

[TWMountain]

19 hours ago, s7mar7in said:

This is very interesting to read, thank you for posting this.

This is likely not a simple question to be answered but it is most likely a combination of several things.

• Age of the game or maybe the unique genre of the game TLD
• Age of the players or maybe their fast-paced lifestyle and quick mental skills
• Life experiences of the players who follow your channel
• Culture and society and how they may affect the player level of immersion in TLD
• Other personal preferences of the players, (there may be a fine line between relaxing, slow, and boring)

Perhaps you could think about how much of what makes playing The Long Dark enjoyable is the time we spend thinking about the game, how we might struggle with the many complex choices, quick decisions, and long-term planning, all of which are needed for survival.

IE: Maybe one play style is to play TLD for 30 minutes. Then take a break and return to your normal life, but also enjoy thinking about what will be required to progress the next time you play the game. Then the next time you play, put your preplanning into action and see how it works out.

Clearly, many of us in this TLD community enjoy thinking about the game, the story behind the game, and the choices a person in a real-life survival situation might be required to make. 

For me, actually playing the game is only a part of what makes TLD enjoyable.

I hope this helpful my friend.

Maybe I should think about this from a different perspective. If the basic gameplay experience of this game makes them feel bored or slow, yet they still put in a lot of effort to play TLD, it indicates that TLD is such an excellent game that even if there are aspects of the experience they don't like, they still find ways to change it and play.

[Serenity]

On 8/5/2024 at 7:12 PM, TWMountain said:

They can’t even watch a 15-minute video completely.

It's not called the TikTok generation without reason. TikTok prefers these very short, low content videos and other platforms like YT have felt that pressure too. And somehow it messes with people's brains and causes them to prefer short, instant things in completely different mediums too.

That said, TLD probably isn't even for everyone who does like survival games. Even in titles that are a few years old you can usually walk significantly faster or even run everywhere. The genre also tends to focus a lot more on crafting and base building than TLD.

[Pencil]

I'm not super familiar with content creation platforms other than YouTube, but it sounds like you're reaching the wrong audience. If the majority of your viewers on that platform are younger or enjoy fast paced content, then I would either adapt to the new demand or start fresh with a new account or a new platform and try to aim for the older audiences. I know there are lots of people that still love TLD content, so it's a matter of reaching those people. 

Me personally, I will watch TLD content but normally have it on 1.5x speed if it's an unedited playthrough or an announcement discussion. I do think most TLD content is very slow and many audiences are moving to the faster paced content. I must admit I have even increased the timescale in a normal survival run using the Dev Console mod (timescale increases the speed of time, so it doesn't give any benefit or advantage. It's just to speed up some boring walking bits) at times. 

If it were me, I would tune my content to fit the wants of the audience. Whether that mean editing each video with more cuts and with brief announcement overviews, or doing some sort of challenge/survival playthrough that is more exciting than the average Stalker or Interloper playthrough. Or, start a fresh account somewhere where I can reach the older audience I'm looking for. I know the second option is really not ideal, but if the followers are not watching the content then there's not much you can do to fix that. 

I hope I understood your point correctly; sorry if I misunderstood. Hopefully there is a way to salvage those existing followers and get the views back up. 

[Leeanda]

If they want fast paced then showing speed runs might be one way to go...

Or you could appeal to their humour and show funny bugs or incidents that can happen... 

[Sherri]

This is such an interesting topic! Congrats on the success of your channel.  
 

I don't think there's any one simple answer. I certainly have noticed my own attention span shrinking and have made concerted efforts to combat that. And certainly it's much more rare these days for a game to be brutally hard or to not hold your hand though a lot of tutorial type onboarding. TLD just tosses you into the snow and you're kind of left to mostly figure it out yourself. I think it's a much smaller audience (especially in the last decade or two) that is really into that type of game. I don't think there's anything wrong about that. Certainly there's enough difficulty in real life these days so wanting a more relaxed experience in your leisure time is totally normal. I've even enjoyed a nice walking-simulator style game myself from time to time. Not every game has to be heart-pounding.

If TLD was launched today, I could see it really benefiting from an in-game tutorial.

I personally find the mapping in the game to be too limited for my taste. I'd love a better way to at least indicate my location and orientation. Building out the map with charcoal + disorientating blizzards is enough of a navigation challenge for me. So I regularly use player created maps and don't bother much with the in-game map. But that's ok too.

I think you might just have an audience that isn't really geared toward punishing games. And maybe people don't realize what they're getting into? I dunno - hard games are a niche, hard survival games are a niche inside that, and TLD is a niche inside even that. So the pool of players is very hyper targeted to a certain gamer type. Not all platforms that reach the broad public are going to have a great pool to draw from. If your channel is only going to be TLD content, you might saturate your pool of potential viewers pretty quickly, or like others have said, try other TLD content more geared to less patient gamers (as mentioned - speedruns, dramatic events, fails, story highlights etc).

Edited August 15 by Sherri

[Serenity]

If TLD was launched today, I could see it really benefiting from an in-game tutorial.

The tutorial is Wintermute. Conceptually it's easier than Survival mode and eases you into things. It also has literal tutorials about several things. Those used to be mandatory, which was a huge complaint before they made them them optional.

[Splayed Crow]

We ignore our real life issues and dive into the net to escape them. As generations that have it more than we did come up, they will be even worse. Cheating will rise even higher and shortcuts to cheap satisfaction will too rise. Keep your kids off the Internet and they might have something going for themselves and want more in there entertainment. I play very slow and fast paced. The goal is always 500 wolves by day 500 and a rising counter from the previous run. Kinda like sea of thieves when I turn the game on, the adrenaline runs hot the whole time. We maybe the last few generations of something resembling the apex brain.

[TWMountain]

After 3 weeks, there is a problem with my video content. Well, I should ask @Raphael van Lierop.  If you read my introduction you know I am a TLD content creator. I used stream package for my stream and video. There is a series videos called " The Long Talk". I just downloaded your videos from youtube as a background. Just update introduction video just like this picture. I just want to know if you allow me to use your update introduction videos as the background for my video. It’s just a simple conversation-type video, and it may have almost nothing to do with the content of my video. I used the live package you provide to creators to build my video frame, but the video content uses your YouTube introduction video. I’m not sure if this is appropriate. I hope you allow me to use it. Of course, if you do not agree, I apologize for this and promise that I will no longer use your trailers or update introduction content in my future videos.