Critters at the start of voyager games

[chicks]

Hey guyz,

I seem to remember that it is part of the recent changes to have no wild life (or is it only wolf?) to spawn prior to the first 12 or 24h. I find it harder to play now in mystery lake partly because of this. While prior to that new update there where too many wolfs, it can be kind of hard to find food until the wolfs start spawning.

On a similar note, wolfs and other critters seem to be able to go where we can't (like you push a deer to a wolf and they both run off map).

I get that this is a game in development and all, I'm just curious about the orientation of the balance for future release.

Will we get something like less wolfs early (instead of none) or less aggressive ones for voyager level?

Will there be actual limits where animals can't go or a way for players to reach those higher spots where there is no rocks blocking?

[Jeremy JPOW Powell]

The wildlife shouldn't be going to places the player can't. so that is an issue we will need to resolve.

As for the wolves not spawning at the start on voyageur, they don't start spawning till 18 - 36 hours. We added this to give a little buffer for players to explore and get settled into an area. The first 2 days there is lots of food laying around in all the houses so it isn't that critical to need to hunt at that point. That said if you wish to hunt, the deer and rabbits are around so you can hunt them if you find yourself short on food. It will actually be easier for you to snare rabbits as the wolves won't be hunting them while you try to trap them.

Jeremy

[DenverDad]

The wildlife shouldn't be going to places the player can't. so that is an issue we will need to resolve.

As for the wolves not spawning at the start on voyageur, they don't start spawning till 18 - 36 hours. We added this to give a little buffer for players to explore and get settled into an area. The first 2 days there is lots of food laying around in all the houses so it isn't that critical to need to hunt at that point. That said if you wish to hunt, the deer and rabbits are around so you can hunt them if you find yourself short on food. It will actually be easier for you to snare rabbits as the wolves won't be hunting them while you try to trap them.

Jeremy

Does this also mean the wildlife shouldn't be traveling routes the player can't? I've lost track of the number of times I've been tracking a blood trail only for the trail to go up an incline I cannot possibly climb.

[Spottdrossel]

As for the wolves not spawning at the start on voyageur, they don't start spawning till 18 - 36 hours.

Does that mean wolves continue to spawn after 36 hours of game time?

The change log pretty clearly states that they wouldn't:

Hostile Wildlife now only spawns between 18-36 hours after game start.

[Bill Tarling]

Does that mean wolves continue to spawn after 36 hours of game time?

The change log pretty clearly states that they wouldn't:

Hostile Wildlife now only spawns between 18-36 hours after game start.

The changelog means the wolves won't start spawning in that mode until 18 to 36 hours after the start. Consider it a grace period or safe period so you can travel and get a start.

Once the spawn time is reached, the wildlife are back to normal spawn/respawn settings.

[Spottdrossel]

Does that mean wolves continue to spawn after 36 hours of game time?

The change log pretty clearly states that they wouldn't:

Hostile Wildlife now only spawns between 18-36 hours after game start.

The changelog means the wolves won't start spawning in that mode until 18 to 36 hours after the start. Consider it a grace period or safe period so you can travel and get a start.

Once the spawn time is reached, the wildlife are back to normal spawn/respawn settings.

Thanks for the clarification!

English is not my mother tongue, but I'm pretty sure that's not what the sentence in the change log actually says.

I suspect this level of imprecise communication will lead to all kinds of problems.

[toebar]

"* (VOYAGEUR ONLY) Hostile Wildlife now only spawns between 18-36 hours after game starts"

It's splitting hairs a bit, but Spottdrossel is correct... the sentence would be better if clarified to indicate that hostile wildlife only begins to spawn 18-36 hours after the game starts.

[Raphael van Lierop]

Yes, very true. We didn't write that particular changelist entry very well. I take responsibility for that. Sometimes what makes sense from a dev point of view doesn't make sense from a grammatical point of view.

As others have stated, the intended meaning is: "Hostile wildlife will not spawn until 18-36 hours of game time have passed, in Voyageur games only."

[chicks]

The wildlife shouldn't be going to places the player can't. so that is an issue we will need to resolve.

As for the wolves not spawning at the start on voyageur, they don't start spawning till 18 - 36 hours. We added this to give a little buffer for players to explore and get settled into an area. The first 2 days there is lots of food laying around in all the houses so it isn't that critical to need to hunt at that point. That said if you wish to hunt, the deer and rabbits are around so you can hunt them if you find yourself short on food. It will actually be easier for you to snare rabbits as the wolves won't be hunting them while you try to trap them.

Jeremy

Good to hear about the off map critters, thanks for that clarification!

Well as you know, ammo are rare and precious, so the typical "throw deer at wolf + shoot wolf" technique is preferable IMHO, to pure hunting. Plus snaring without killing stuff is not necessarily easy. Finding carcasses is all part of the luck. Allowing some wolf, while note having tons of them early, can help finding more dead deer (and so more guts).

Well it's just an idea, but I really feel like having less wolf instead of none at all would work better.

[toebar]

Yes, very true. We didn't write that particular changelist entry very well. I take responsibility for that. Sometimes what makes sense from a dev point of view doesn't make sense from a grammatical point of view.

"

I'm glad you've seen the error of your ways, and will now elevate grammar to priority one

[megamen]

Both the wolves and deer can run up nearly sheer cliffs. I watched a wolf chase a deer up the hill on the right side of Mysterious Lake, and then each one disappeared.

Also it is, as far as I can tell, impossible to catch a rabbit without already having found / killed another animal (need guts for snares). Since the only thing that can kill animals are wolves (since you don't start with a gun), hunting is completely out in a new game.

[jackattack]

Snares are a rare item, so you might find a snare (especially in Trapper Homestead).

Also, gut can be harvested from deer carcasses which can be found from the start of a game, so it is possible to make a snare (or deerskin boots) without killing anything.

[elloco999]

And you can wait for a wolf to attack a deer (or help it along to speed things up) and wait until it has finished eating and moves off. There are still guts and skin on the carcass.

Of course, this would require wolves and if they don't spawn until after a few days you won't be able to do this at the very start of the game. But there is plenty of food to get you through those first days.

[tsotha]

As for the wolves not spawning at the start on voyageur, they don't start spawning till 18 - 36 hours. We added this to give a little buffer for players to explore and get settled into an area.

Jeremy

I like it. A significant portion of my voyager games used to end within the first few (game) hours as I got stuck in a blizzard and attacked by a wolf before I could make it to a building. It wasn't that big of a deal since you don't have much invested in a game that's only twenty minutes old, but still...

Also, 18-36 hours seems like a lot to veterans, but if you're new to the map (or have a terrible sense of direction like me), you can run around in circles for awhile before you find anything, particularly in poor visibility.

[toebar]

Your first few times starting in a map are exciting for sure-- I just worry that knowing there are no wolves might make it less exciting (= less enjoyable potentially?).

I'd prefer if they only decreased the chances or decreased the number spawned in the map so that the threat still remains and the player still has to be on guard, but they are less likely to be torn to bits before getting their feet under them..

[Burning Bridges]

That's what worries me as well. While it does feel better right now to have a little respite from wolves, it is bad game design. As soon as people know there are no wolves, opportunistic players will just run to the Quonset gas station right away and get everything they need. I would rather make it so the number of wolves slowly increase, and adjust their aggression, than to resort to such tricks.

[elloco999]

I would not be as careful at the start of the game knowing there are no dangerous animals. I would use that time to get my starting gear (clothes, tools etc) in relative safety without having to worry about a wolf being around every corner. It would make the start much easier.

... As soon as people know there are no wolves, opportunistic players will just run to the Quonset gas station right away and get everything they need...

I hadn't even thought about that yet...

A better way to do this may indeed be to start with a lower number of wolves and increase it until it reaches the 'normal' amount.

[Majales]

Experienced player, who knows where to look for gear, doesn't have big problem with wolves in Voyageur. And even Quonset station doesn't have everything you need.

I agree, that starting with lower number of wolves, and increasing it until normal amount is reachead, is better.

[Burning Bridges]

A better way to do this may indeed be to start with a lower number of wolves and increase it until it reaches the 'normal' amount.

An even better way would be to improve the wolf behavior and activate it from the first second. Anything that fabricates "better" wolf rates for certain amounts of time is just coating a problem with deus ex machina.

The other way I see is to adjust wolf numbers per map/area and place new players in one part of the map with less wolves. That would be logical and in line with how most other games handle difficulty.

[Burning Bridges]

Experienced player, who knows where to look for gear, doesn't have big problem with wolves in Voyageur. And even Quonset station doesn't have everything you need.

I agree, that starting with lower number of wolves, and increasing it until normal amount is reachead, is better.

I can go to Qonset and loot all buildings (including the gas station) within the first 24h, then never return. I am sure that was not the intention of the developers. It solves an old problem and creates a new one. And it will probably set forth yet another fix.

Also I completely don't understand your logic that because experienced players learned to handle the wolfes, it should be better that anyone can do it just as well.