Outdoor section of buildings showing inconsistent (but clearly replicable) fire burning times

[AdamvR]

If I'm cooking something on these stoves, then the firetime goes down exactly as much wood is added (as if it is an indoor fire), but if I walk away from the same fire and come back, I get an "outdoor bonus".

I think this is a bug, and reported it to Hinterland, but wanted to ask around if anyone else has also encountered it (or not) - so maybe we can gather more information.
(Or maybe it is intentional and has changed on purpose...?)

At first I found it in the Mindful Cabin's (FA) stove, so thought it might be related to that (relatively) new location, but then ran into it in other areas as well, which are (were?) considered to be outdoor locations, namely the open section of the yard in Broken Railroad (there is no stove, but I usually make campfires there), and also the stove in the pier quite consistently and replicably (to me)

here are my replication trials from the pier in BI, and a video of the same.
case 1)
standing next to the fire, boiling 2 cans of water (should be 28 minutes), speeding up cooking time: 
2:22 ==> 1:54 - 28 minutes firetime decrease, seems exact amount of time, no outdoor bonus

case 2)
going to the next room to tear up some boxes:
1:54 ==> 1:22 - 32 minutes firetime decrease, seems exact amount of time (28 cooking + 4 boiled away), no outdoor bonus

case 3)
walking a bit further, to the end of the pier, spending a little time there (mapping)
1:20 ==> 1:02 - 18 (!) minutes, firetime decrease, while the water boiled (28 minutes) + slightly boiled away (4 minutes). clearly there was a 14 minute outdoor bonus

 

Edited May 2, 2023 by AdamvR
typo

[ManicManiac]

For many years, "outdoor" fires gain the benefit of the increased burn times granted by more advanced "fire starting" skill.
This bonus does not (or at least has not) included "indoor" fires.

To be more specific... "indoor" is either inside of a transitioned space (house/cave systems) and also the back of "shallow caves" ... were we walk a bit slower, and we see the temperature jump by about 10*C

Places that you seem to be describing are still "outdoor" for the purposes of mechanics.
I didn't see anything unusual in your video...

Edited May 2, 2023 by ManicManiac

[AdamvR]

3 minutes ago, ManicManiac said:

For many years, "outdoor" fires gain the benefit of the increased burn times granted by more advanced "fire starting" skill.
This bonus does not (or at least has not) included "indoor" fires.

To be more specific... "indoor" is either inside of a transitioned space (house/cave systems) and also the back of "shallow caves" ... were we walk a bit slower, and we see the temperature jump by about 10*C

Places that you seem to be describing are still "outdoor" for the purposes of mechanics.
I don't see anything unusual in your video... and if that's what you are referring to; then I'd say that's a feature rather than a bug.

The increased burn times from higher skill is not what I’m referring to. Outside or outer side of caves give outdoor bonuses to fire time whether or not I’m sitting next to it or walking away. Outdoor bonus= you add 1 hour of wood but you get some extra minutes (I think dependent on the temperature how much)

indoor fires never have this bonus, 1 hour wood is 1 hour fire.

if you leave something on an outdoor fire, you always have to calculate in the (unpredictable) bonus time, not to make it burn.

 

what I’m saying is, that these locations appear to act as an indoor fire, when standing next to it, and an outdoor fire when walking away. And I believe they were consistently outdoor fires before.

[ManicManiac]

@AdamvR

Fair enough, I misunderstood what you were trying to convey.

I withdraw my follow up questions.

Edited May 2, 2023 by ManicManiac

[AdamvR]

So, having that cleared up, have you noticed such inconsistency around these fireplaces?

[Serenity]

I think there was always an inconsistency where the outdoor bonus was determined by where you are rather than the fire. Like you have a fire outside, but spend time inside. Or if your fire is in the cold part of a cave, but you're next to it in the warm part. But I haven't looked into it really. 

[stratvox]

Actually interior fires have been affected by the outdoor burning bonus, and the reason why is because it's calculated based on *where the player is*... with some caveats; having an interior fire extend won't cause food to burn if the original run time of the fire was within the limit, and that's true whether or not the fire is indoors or out, but based on the player. So, for example, if I have a fire in the barrel outside the trailer in MT, and sleep inside, and the fire is long enough to cook the food but not so long as to burn it, it won't burn. OTOH, if I roll out a sleeping bag next to the fire and sleep, it can.

It's an interesting aspect of how these things are actually calculated in the game, and can be exploited. I've known of this for many years now, and have used it to save wood. Try this, and see what happens: light a fire in Mountaineer's, feed it up to the full twelve hours, and go sleep behind it next to the chimney (where you will be protected by the fire) outside and track how long you're out for, and then go in and look a the time remaining on the fire. When I do that, they don't add up because the fire in Mountaineer's got the cold bonus. Serenity has the mechanic exactly right.

[ManicManiac]

@Serenity & @stratvox

That's some good science, thank you.

[AdamvR]

Thanks for your responses @stratvox and @Serenity!

Definitely an intriguing explanation!

If there is a safeguard, not to let my food burn, it’s likely not applied to boiling water away: the first time I noticed this was when I left 2L of water to cook on the stove of Mindful Cabin (FA) with just  enough wood to boil it and then go out. When I came back quite a bit later, the water was gone, and the fire still on (!).

I cannot wait to do some experimentation around this…

[AdamvR]

23 hours ago, ManicManiac said:

For many years, "outdoor" fires gain the benefit of the increased burn times granted by more advanced "fire starting" skill.
This bonus does not (or at least has not) included "indoor" fires.

Wanted to get back on this: in my experience, the bonus from skill you do get immediately, when you add the pieces of wood to the fire. The timer goes up more if you have a higher skill, regardless of it is an indoor fire or outdoor fire ( just recently used the ammunition forge inside with recycled wood each adding about 45 minutes due to the 50% bonus from level 5 fire starting. When I begin these pieces of wood add about half an hour with no skill bonus. I do not recall this to have been different for indoor or outdoor fires in the past either, though could be mistaken.

The outdoor bonus is different, it is added while the fire is burning (so not immediately but some time after I have added the wood) ie, the timer shows 1 hour, you boil water for 28 minutes and the timer goes down maybe 15 minutes only, not 28. This I never had for indoor fires, but probably because I myself was indoor as well (as per the explanations above). (not sure of which is the moment exactly when the time is added, but probably when you check on it the next time)

Some initial tests of mine support the above mechanic, such as standing just outside the door by the barrel on the pier in BI I got the bonus, but not when standing inside. (Also can use the magnifying glass on the barrel, when standing outside). Although I also felt that if I enter even for a sec, the whole fire loses the bonus -  would need further experimentation…

I did not yet have the chance to plan and execute a detailed comparison study - if and when that  happens, I’d post the update here. (Right now I’m facing a little setback as Elizabeth the Fourth has returned to her creator on the 303rd day of her reign - the byte gods rest her courageous soul.)

Edited May 3, 2023 by AdamvR

[xanna]

Slightly off-topic but related:

The ability to light a fire with the magnifying lens in a cave depends on whether you are in the 'indoor' or 'outdoor' part of the cave. The location of the PC, not the fire, is used for that:

 

 

 

Edited May 3, 2023 by xanna
fix corrupted video file

[ManicManiac]

@AdamvR

That's also some good science, thank you.

My previous comments were just my understanding of the mechanic from what I had understood/observed years before (as I've never had reason to really look at it closely again).  I can't ever say I'm sure of those things, because I don't have access to actually look at the code to be able to confirm what's going on "under-the-hood" (so to speak).  I always appreciate it when folks delve deeper and spread those findings amongst the community.

Knowledge is power... but only when it is shared.   

Edited May 3, 2023 by ManicManiac

[ManicManiac]

54 minutes ago, xanna said:

The ability to light a fire with the magnifying lens in a cave depends on whether you are in the 'indoor' or 'outdoor' part of the cave.

[stratvox]

22 hours ago, AdamvR said:

Thanks for your responses @stratvox and @Serenity!

Definitely an intriguing explanation!

If there is a safeguard, not to let my food burn, it’s likely not applied to boiling water away: the first time I noticed this was when I left 2L of water to cook on the stove of Mindful Cabin (FA) with just  enough wood to boil it and then go out. When I came back quite a bit later, the water was gone, and the fire still on (!).

I cannot wait to do some experimentation around this…

I suspect that they were probably exceptions created for specific locations; like back when Mountaineer's was the only exterior interior in the entire game... and also that given the engine updates (IIRC there have been two major Unity engine updates that have been done, and there may have been three wrt TLD) those exceptions may no longer exist; I ran that particular experiment a LONG time ago.

[stratvox]

1 hour ago, xanna said:

Slightly off-topic but related:

The ability to light a fire with the magnifying lens in a cave depends on whether you are in the 'indoor' or 'outdoor' part of the cave. The location of the PC, not the fire, is used for that:

Nice! Also good science!

[ManicManiac]

25 minutes ago, stratvox said:

Nice! Also good science!

@xanna
Agreed!

Edited May 3, 2023 by ManicManiac