A Sled for Cargo and Improved Foraging

Pharose

By Pharose
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Pharose

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Having a 30kg carry limit in this game is fairly realistic although quite restrictive. If I'm carrying my rifle for self defence I have a hard time keeping my inventory under 20kg which leaves me little room for loot. This means it's incredibly laborious to relocate one's home-base and the same goes for hunting if you've scored some large game or if you're far from home. Instead of increasing the carry limit and altering the balance of the game I know of a much more realistic solution that would add a lot of depth to the game: Cargo sleds.

Cargo sleds are ubiquitous across the arctic and they used manpower to pull these sleds long before they domesticated dogs or invented snowmobiles. Sleds can be used to haul large amounts of supplies or to transport the carcasses of large animals. You would be a fool to go hunting in the arctic without one of these because making several trips back and forth to your kill is not an option when you have hungry wolves at bay. They're pretty much essential for arctic survival because walking through deep snow while carrying any cargo is EXTREMELY exhausting.

As far as I can tell this game doesn't have a physics engine yet, but you don't need a physics engine to implement sleds. Just don't give them any momentum and make it so they only move when the player is pulling on them. It would be incredibly fun to ride one of these down a steep hill, but that might be a bit counterproductive to survival... Another feature you could add is you could have default tool positions in the sled so any tools you put in there could be visible and easily accessible (but perhaps you should make the gun racks work first).

With the addition of the cargo sled you could make foraging more challenging and immersive. Right now it seems kinda silly that I can forage infinite wood from the comfort of my front porch. I think the player should have to go to a wooded area first in order to gather wood. To make the gameplay even deeper you could add localized diminishing returns, so the player has to go to other areas to find more wood, or you could simply give each zone a finite supply of wood. Perhaps this supply could slowly regenerate over time, or maybe the player could chop down a tree to boost the availability of local wood... You could also add a proper axe to the game, which is heavier than the hatchet but chops wood faster. There are many different ways to improve the foraging system but please don't make it too challenging until you have improved the inventory management!

One other feature you should add is the ability to pick up dead rabbits. It's rather silly if I have a snare set up a few meters from my front door and I have to butcher frozen rabbit meat outside in the middle of a -30 degree snowstorm. Let me pick it up and bring it inside!

I hate to bring this up but there's another survival game in alpha called “The Forest” which is coincidentally also made in British Columbia. They've already added a cargo sled to their game despite the fact that it doesn't suit the environment at all...

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Boston123 Pathfinder

Boston123

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Having a 30kg carry limit in this game is fairly realistic although quite restrictive. If I'm carrying my rifle for self defence I have a hard time keeping my inventory under 20kg which leaves me little room for loot. This means it's incredibly laborious to relocate one's home-base and the same goes for hunting if you've scored some large game or if you're far from home. Instead of increasing the carry limit and altering the balance of the game I know of a much more realistic solution that would add a lot of depth to the game: Cargo sleds.

Cargo sleds are ubiquitous across the arctic and they used manpower to pull these sleds long before they domesticated dogs or invented snowmobiles. Sleds can be used to haul large amounts of supplies or to transport the carcasses of large animals. You would be a fool to go hunting in the arctic without one of these because making several trips back and forth to your kill is not an option when you have hungry wolves at bay. They're pretty much essential for arctic survival because walking through deep snow while carrying any cargo is EXTREMELY exhausting.

As far as I can tell this game doesn't have a physics engine yet, but you don't need a physics engine to implement sleds. Just don't give them any momentum and make it so they only move when the player is pulling on them. It would be incredibly fun to ride one of these down a steep hill, but that might be a bit counterproductive to survival... Another feature you could add is you could have default tool positions in the sled so any tools you put in there could be easily accessible (but perhaps you should make the gun racks work first).

With the addition of the cargo sled you could make foraging more challenging and immersive. Right now it seems kinda silly that I can forage infinite wood from the comfort of my front porch. I think the player should have to go to a wooded area first in order to gather wood. To make the gameplay even deeper you could add localized diminishing returns, so the play has to go to other areas to find more wood, or you could simply give each zone a finite supply of wood. Perhaps this supply could slowly regenerate over time, or maybe the player could chop down a tree to boost the availability of local wood... You could also add a proper axe to the game, which is heavier than the hatchet but chops wood faster. There are many different ways to improve the foraging system but please don't make it too challenging until you have improved the inventory management!

One other feature you should add is the ability to pick up dead rabbits. It's rather silly if I have a snare set up a few meters from my front door and I have to butcher frozen rabbit meat outside in the middle of a -30 degree snowstorm. Let me pick it up and bring it inside!

I hate to bring this up but there's another survival game in alpha called “The Forest” which is coincidentally also made in British Columbia. They've already added a cargo sled to their game despite the fact that it doesn't suit the environment at all...

1) I like the sled idea, or you could make a travois (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Travois) Easy to make, simple to use, and EFFECTIVE. I've carried 10 peoples gear, wood, and assorted other stuff by myself using a travois.

2) LOVE that wood idea! Realistic, and would actually force you to make difficult choices!

3) Moving animal corpses: Agreed, especially if they put in a sled or a travois.

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The_Hawk35 Pathfinder

The_Hawk35

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I really like the sled idea, but I think that it should significantly increase your fatigue meter. I've pulled sleds when hunting it's not easy!!!

I also agree that moving corpses should be possible. Rabbits way easy, deer/wolf should require the sled and again slow you down and tire you out.

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Scyzara Pathfinder

Scyzara

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Having a sled to transport a bear corpse would be absolutely amazing! :D

I agree with The_Hawk35 that pulling the sled should increase your fatigue rapidly, maybe even depending on the weight you pull. (Pulling a wolf corpse should be less exhausting than pulling a black bear corpse for example.^^)

One other feature you should add is the ability to pick up dead rabbits. It's rather silly if I have a snare set up a few meters from my front door and I have to butcher frozen rabbit meat outside in the middle of a -30 degree snowstorm. Let me pick it up and bring it inside!

+1 for this. :)

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Shonuff Wolfbait

Shonuff

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I really like the sled idea, but I think that it should significantly increase your fatigue meter. I've pulled sleds when hunting it's not easy!!!

I also agree that moving corpses should be possible. Rabbits way easy, deer/wolf should require the sled and again slow you down and tire you out.

I love the idea of a sled and being able to move corpses. Besides just harvesting meat, pelts/leather and guts; maybe in the future we could craft or find a cooking pot. I really like the idea of a stew made of guts/meat/herbs.

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toebar Pathfinder

toebar

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I like these ideas. Sled would be handy for sure.

A twist on your wood foraging idea: different locations could produce wood a different rates. e.g. standing in the middle of the lake takes 20(+) min for one piece of firewood, compared to much shorter time if standing in a forested area. Basically the increased time accounts for the time spent to look for the wood/travel to where the wood is. Some areas could even have no real firewood (like the cabins do now). When you go to the forage menu, it could give you a basic indication of the how much wood is around or how long it would take to forage etc.

An axe would be handy too, since the time and energy to chop a full tree down with a hatchet should be immense (especially since it is a scavenged hatchet, it's not likely to be particularly sharp! At least, that is my experience with other people's hatchets.. :) ).

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  • 2 months later...
tog89 Prepper

tog89

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Having just moved my base from Jackrabbit Island to the Pleasant Valley Homestead, I had many trips to think about sleds and how they could work in The Long Dark. I want the sled to have functionality, but fit within the survival and self-reliance theme of the game.

My thoughts on sleds are something similar to the Inuit Qamutiik:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qamutiik

This sled is perfect for the Long Dark, made with a minimum of materials and is still a sled that is hand crafted by Inuit today. The protagonist could have a passing knowledge of these sleds and would likely make something similar with the materials and tools available in the game. As the Wikipedia article states, “The key feature of the qamutiik is that it does not use nails or pins to hold the runners and cross pieces in place."

Now this would obviously require considerable crafting time, probably in the order of 100 hours and I see it requiring Fir (~10) for the runner, reclaimed wood (~40) for the slats, and thread (~20) for the lashings. Both reclaimed wood and thread do not have a lot of crafting uses, so if significant numbers are required, it would provide motivation to gather the wood from several locations to gather the required amounts.

As far as in-game use, I see it being an item deployed in a similar fashion to the bedroll. While the sled is an item in inventory, you are unable to interact with it. When deployed in the game world (with the bedroll restrictions) when you interact with it you get a container inventory with a set capacity say 40 kg, same as a fridge. This also would then not require additional art assets while moving as it would not appear in the game world (it's a simulation after all).

While the sled is in your inventory, you should also have a moving penalty, perhaps your character is limited to walking speed only, no sprinting and you are unable to pull it when exhausted. Also, your fatigue rate would accumulate at the same rate as if you were sprinting. Having the moving penalty and requiring the deployment through the menu would make it riskier to avoid unwanted animal encounters. You have to untangle yourself before you can act freely.

Here’s an example of a Qamutiik made out of more modern materials but still along the size I could see the protagonist using.

http://lumberjocks.com/projects/80357

Anyway, that’s my take on how a sled could work, any thoughts?

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elloco999 Pathfinder

elloco999

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I think you've pretty much thought it all out. The only thing I would note is that walking speed and fatigue increase rate should be dependent on the weight of the sled + supplies and possibly on the terrain you're walking on (up hill/ road without snow). The sled should also restrict turning around. You can't just turn around and walk back, you need to drag the sled in a circle to turn it around. This limits how sharp you can turn in any direction but particularly turning around.

I don't get however what you mean by:

...When deployed in the game world (with the bedroll restrictions) when you interact with it you get a container inventory with a set capacity say 40 kg, same as a fridge. This also would then not require additional art assets while moving as it would not appear in the game world (it's a simulation after all).

If I can deploy it in the game world, that would require a model + skin etc to place. Or do you mean art assets for the cargo on the sled? Maybe the model of the sled could be of a sled with a box on it for the cargo?

You need to be able to place the sled somewhere and to move it around as well. So maybe the sled should have to interaction hotspots, the cargo area (open the 'container') and the front (pull the sled).

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tog89 Prepper

tog89

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I don't get however what you mean by:
...When deployed in the game world (with the bedroll restrictions) when you interact with it you get a container inventory with a set capacity say 40 kg, same as a fridge. This also would then not require additional art assets while moving as it would not appear in the game world (it's a simulation after all).

If I can deploy it in the game world, that would require a model + skin etc to place. Or do you mean art assets for the cargo on the sled? Maybe the model of the sled could be of a sled with a box on it for the cargo?

You need to be able to place the sled somewhere and to move it around as well. So maybe the sled should have to interaction hotspots, the cargo area (open the 'container') and the front (pull the sled).

Yeah, not my most lucid point. I was just thinking that it would be a significant effort to model a sled that travels with the character and you could just penalize movement to illustrates its effect. An in-world asset would be required, like the bedroll, and as you suggest a "pick-up" point and an "inventory" point would be ideal. Having a static model would not break my immersion. I would just love to have a sled.

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